Chapter Approved: New Strats, Relic and Trait

[CrusherJoe]

Let's talk new strategems...

 

There are so many lovely things you can do with the "on a 2+ after a character dies a unit can do an AoF" one and Celestine and the Wonder Twins.

 

Get shot and lose a Wonder Twin? AoF out of the way!

 

Bogged down in a close combat swamp and lost a Wonder Twin? AoF a Fight phase, then Fight again when it's your turn!

 

In a stupid combat you really don't want to be in -- and lost a Wonder Twin? AoF and BOUNCE out! It won't matter on your next turn -- you don't count as Falling Back!

 

Lost a Wonder Twin at any time, and really need her back before you proceed? AoF that girl right back!

 

Deny any power on a 4+ just makes me smile. I can see keeping the CP for that one and another for a re-roll (because 4+ kinda blows, but whatever) for those special moments when Magnus wants to cast Warp Time or Weaver of Fates...or when someone tries to cast Warp Time on Morty...yep...it's totally baller. It's an off switch, and hopefully will make your opponent think about what powers he's gonna cast and when. 

 

Both are solid strategems. Love 'em.

 

This might mean it's time to include more characters overall to increase the chance of triggering the AoF one -- though probably not. 

 

Blade of Admonition:

3 Damage on anything is pure awesome. I have a reason to take a Canoness now, it looks like.

 

I'm pretty sure the Wonder Twins count as "named characters" (they do actually have names) so I don't think you'll be able to give one the Blade of Admonition. I could be wrong, though.

 

Warlord Trait:

*zzzzZZZZzzzzz*snort*mumble*ZZzzzz*

BORING. Ugh. 

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by CrusherJoe

[Ficinus]

Martyrdom will also be useful for fighting combat armies. If they kill a character, you can AoF a unit of Dominions or Retributors out of combat so that they can shoot next turn (and don't get killed). This will be especially useful if they need to kill the character so that you don't interrupt and have the character kill something important.

 

It could also make Crusaders more useful, giving them bonus rounds of combat with their otherwise mediocre statline could make them dangerous instead of just walls.

 

It might also make it really useful to take three or four dialogi or hospitallers as cheap sacrifice models to get bonus Acts of Faith (imagine an Immolator full of models you send out one at a time to die so you can bonus shoot).

[robofish7591]

I am definitely looking forward to the new stratagems and the relic.  Really the only thing we got that was meh was the warlord trait.  Martyrdom is going to make people think twice about trying to kill off your support characters while your other units are around.

[Drider]

the wording on the Martyrdom strat basically boils down to, a character dies, spend the command point, on a 2+ any unit with AoF that hasn't already used one that turn can do an AoF, remove the unit that triggered martyrdom. So you'll not be using it when a geminae dies unless you want to remove celestine. The wording means you can do this on the enemy turn though which is nice. cannoness/imagifier/etc etc die you can make celestine get an extra turn of combat during the enemy's turn, so potentually 4 rounds of combat from celestine per battleround (gameturn).

[CrusherJoe]

That's...unfortunate if correct. I haven't seen the actual rule itself yet. 

[Beams]

That's for the best, though. It'd end up like Gothdar's soulburst mechanic. Oh, you killed my Geminae in your fight phase? Well now I'm going to attack with celestine, and if you survive, shell get to attack again for my half of the combat, and if by some miracle you survive that, she'll just AoF in my turn to get another "free" attack. People are already complaining that she's undercosted, and this would just make her even crazier, especially for Imp Soup, with Guilliman and guard for all the command points.

[CaptainMarsh]

We'll need clarification for Geminae and Celestine. It is a unique case in the game.

[Atrus]

I wouldnt be at all surprised if we eventually get hit with a massive nerf to faith like the ynnari soulburst ala only one of each faith ability per turn.

[Ficinus]

I also wouldn't be surprised if that happens. The only reasons we may not are that it costs 1CP (as opposed to being free) and that Sororitas are rarer so there will be fewer complaints made to GW.

[Atrus]

Rarity wont matter. Keyboard warriors would jump all over it. A perceived imbalance or OPness exists and everyone will grab their torches and pitchforks...ironic.

 

Darn im pessimistic today. I need to stop visiting dakkadakka.

[Servant of Dante]

Strtegems can already only be used once per phase, so in a battle round you might use it 3 times (if a character dies in both fight phases and enemy shooting) and it costs a CP

 

And you have to actually loose a character, if you just put a Hospitaller out front your opponent can just choose not to shoot her :D

[Drider]

In theory a it should be ok. Something you have to pay for should be stronger than something that you get for free, which is the difference between AoF and Soul burst.

@Atrus. You have to keep in mind that dakka is full of people who are still 7th ed rules lawyers and complain that their chosen index army can't compete with what ever codex army is in flavor this month and totally forgetting the fact that the indexes were/are only ever there for us to be able to put models on the table and play a game. It's like complaining that you cant build a fence because all you have are screwdrivers and what you really need is a hammer, then complaining that your neighbour has a complete toolbox.

@Servant of Dante. you'd also have enough units able to use AoF, not in transports, haven't already used it that turn. :P

[Ficinus]

And you have to actually loose a character, if you just put a Hospitaller out front your opponent can just choose not to shoot her :D

You can charge the hospitaller into a unit that will definitely/almost certainly kill her. I'm envisioning dropping Dominions next to a few high value targets and playing sacrifice the cheapest character.

[Drider]

people start bringing 150 points of dialogus... charge of the light brigade.

 

I straight up refuse to buy and paint another one of those models until it gets a new sculpt!

Edited November 28, 2017 by Drider

[Beams]

Huh. That's an interesting idea. It'll be tough to do, since Dominions are way faster, but you totally could keep one around just to die.

[dracpanzer]

We'll need clarification for Geminae and Celestine. It is a unique case in the game.

The Strategem says that you remove the unit from the table after paying to use the strategem at the end of a phase after a character dies. The only time a unit can be present after a character dies in a Sisters list is if a character in the Celestine + Geminae unit has died while leaving the others in the unit on the table. Using the strategem for losing a Geminae would force you to remove Celestine and the other twin. You might have a use for doing so, but I can't think of one where I would.

[Eddie Orlock]

Strtegems can already only be used once per phase, so in a battle round you might use it 3 times ...

Oh, if the will is there, we can muster up a way. Some excitable Canonii with Combi-Plasmas. Free to roll them selves in with 2 dice that'll bump them off on a one or a two in the shooting phase, and Emperor forgive the desperate act that would be using faith to have her shoot near the start of the turn in the certain knowledge that if she missed her demise could regenerate the faith used for the out of sequence shooting attack to begin with.

 

Now, some of these might be of dubious utility.

[taikishi]

I wouldnt be at all surprised if we eventually get hit with a massive nerf to faith like the ynnari soulburst ala only one of each faith ability per turn.

 

Why? Martyrdom only gets used at the end of the phase and matched play rules restrict you to using each Stratagem once per phase.

 

""Use this Strategem at the end of a phase in which an Adepta Sororitas character from your army has been slain. Remove that unit from the battlefield. Roll a d6, on a roll of 2+ one unit from your army with the Act of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith.""

[Ficinus]

You can take a 242 point Vanguard detachment with 5 suicide dialogi, a suicide Canoness with combi-plasma, and an Immolator to put them in. The Canoness can try to die from overcharging (shooting both profiles at fliers makes it more likely), giving you an AoF in the shooting phase. Two dialogi can also pop out of the tank to charge units. Try to have one hit unit that will kill her in overwatch and the other hit a unit that will kill her in combat. If one dies in overwatch you can use an AoF at the end of the charge phase, and if one dies in combat you get an AoF at the end of the combat phase. An army will well placed Dominions or heavy flamer Retributors, or even just a unit of multimelta or heavy bolter Retributors with targets will get loads of extra shooting. It costs command points, yeah, but it will feel unbalanced to people, which will generate complaints (and it isn't really in the spirit of the rule/game).

[CaptainMarsh]

 

We'll need clarification for Geminae and Celestine. It is a unique case in the game.

The Strategem says that you remove the unit from the table after paying to use the strategem at the end of a phase after a character dies. The only time a unit can be present after a character dies in a Sisters list is if a character in the Celestine + Geminae unit has died while leaving the others in the unit on the table. Using the strategem for losing a Geminae would force you to remove Celestine and the other twin. You might have a use for doing so, but I can't think of one where I would.

 

As I said, it is a unique case in the game where we have three characters in a unit while to my knowledge all other characters are single model units. Since we have multiple characters in a single unit it would be a little puzzling if RAI for them in this case would be to remove the unit, even if it is absolutely RAW. Hence why I believe we'll need/will get some manner of clarification on the issue.

[Servant of Dante]

nevermind Edited November 29, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Eddie Orlock]

... to my knowledge all other characters are single model units. ...

Genestealer Patriarchs with Familiars drawn from Index Xenos II. Point of note, the FAQ question about targeting multi-model character units in the shooting phase makes reference to this rather than Celly and the Vunder Twins.

 

There's probably an arguable interpretation that you only trigger when the entire character unit is removed, not just an individual model and that as a unit they form the character. Still, without hard text in the wild, it's a little premature to go full rules-barrister on it.

[CaptainMarsh]

 

... to my knowledge all other characters are single model units. ...

Genestealer Patriarchs with Familiars drawn from Index Xenos II. Point of note, the FAQ question about targeting multi-model character units in the shooting phase makes reference to this rather than Celly and the Vunder Twins.

 

There's probably an arguable interpretation that you only trigger when the entire character unit is removed, not just an individual model and that as a unit they form the character. Still, without hard text in the wild, it's a little premature to go full rules-barrister on it.

 

I haven't read Xenos II and only seen a GSC army once in 8th- thanks for pointing that one put! On phone, difficult to open things- link to the FAQ for that?

[Eddie Orlock]

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

[Atrus]

So now chapter approved has been out a week, how are people finding the changes/additions?

 

Hows that strats working out? The Sword? Etc