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[Pendent]

 

A natural one is always a fail.

...but then you would never get re-roll’s for 1’s with a Capt et al either.

 

 

If you roll a die and you see a 1 that result will always be considered a failure. I'm at work (shameful, I know) so I don't have my rulebook handy but this is something that they state explicitly. Regardless of how good your model is at something there will always be a 1/6 chance to fail, re-rolls notwithstanding.

 

I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at with this statement here though. Re-rolls are determined before any modifiers are applied, so if you see a 1 on the die you just rolled it can be re-rolled.

[Karhedron]

Loving that banner combo for a Hellblaster firebase....!

I don't think Standard of Sacrifice will help Hellblasters especially because if they roll a 1, they are slain outright (i.e. they don't take wounds, they are simply removed).

[Bremon]

 

A natural one is always a fail.

...but then you would never get re-roll’s for 1’s with a Capt et al either.

i don’t see how you come to this conclusion.

 

Regardless, under resolving hit rolls, wound rolls, and saving throws it explicitly states “A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply.”

 

Which tells you a one fails, it doesn’t say “a roll of 1 may never be re-rolled.” A captain’s ability states “you may re-roll hit rolls of 1 made for friendly <chapter> units within 6” of this model.” To argue the core rules invalidate the units special rule is a bit of a stretch. A 1 is a fail, but a fail doesn’t prevent a re-roll. A re-roll isn’t a modifier; it’s a re-roll, and they are treated differently.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Bremon

[Aothaine]

 

 

 

^ the banner is in addition to, not instead of.

Ohhh dang! That is even more amazing then!

Yup. So a Company Ancient is insane where you get a 5+ to ignore a Wound, then a 4+ to go out swinging if you fail the 5+.

 

On a different note...have we discussed +1 To Wound means Thunder hammers et al can never fail to Wound MEQ?

 

Modifiers are applied after re-rolls. So any 1’s lying around get +1. 1+1 = 2. Therefore any of our CQW’s that need a 2+ To Wound can’t fail to Wound?

 

Does it explicitly say anywhere that’s 1’s ALWAYS fail? Even if it does, huh get a +1 after all other modifiers...it’s the inverse of how Corbulo’s exploding 6’s can never effect Power Fists or Thunder Hammers.

A natural one is always a fail.

 

 

This can't be true. Because you can roll 1s with plasma with a +1 modifier and not over heat. Am I missing a rule or a FAQ? I also want to point out that GW did verify that a -1 can make plasma over heat. So a +1 to wound with a thunder hammer would always wound when it is wounding on 2+ prior to the modifer and you roll a 1. Success and failure are determined after modifiers. Pretty sure I'm correct on this point.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Aothaine

[Bremon]

I literally quoted the rules. You didn’t miss an FAQ, you overlooked some core rules. A modifier can make you fail. It can’t prevent you from failing. +1 on a plasma; ok, you didn’t overheat... but you still missed. It doesn’t make you auto-hit, and it doesn’t make you auto-wound. Edited November 29, 2017 by Bremon

[The Unseen]

 

 

 

 

 

^ the banner is in addition to, not instead of.

Ohhh dang! That is even more amazing then!

Yup. So a Company Ancient is insane where you get a 5+ to ignore a Wound, then a 4+ to go out swinging if you fail the 5+.

 

On a different note...have we discussed +1 To Wound means Thunder hammers et al can never fail to Wound MEQ?

 

Modifiers are applied after re-rolls. So any 1’s lying around get +1. 1+1 = 2. Therefore any of our CQW’s that need a 2+ To Wound can’t fail to Wound?

 

Does it explicitly say anywhere that’s 1’s ALWAYS fail? Even if it does, huh get a +1 after all other modifiers...it’s the inverse of how Corbulo’s exploding 6’s can never effect Power Fists or Thunder Hammers.

A natural one is always a fail.

This can't be true. Because you can roll 1s with plasma with a +1 modifier and not over heat. Am I missing a rule or a FAQ? I also want to point out that GW did verify that a -1 can make plasma over heat. So a +1 to wound with a thunder hammer would always wound when it is wounding on 2+ prior to the modifer and you roll a 1. Success and failure are determined after modifiers. Pretty sure I'm correct on this point.

You don't overheat when you roll a natural 1, you overheat when your roll after modifiers is 1.

BUT you always miss (or fail to wound) on a natural die roll of 1, regardless of any other modifiers.

So with a +1 ability on overcharged plasma, a 1 misses, but doesn't overheat.

Overheating isn't considered a "failure" for the natural 1s always fail clause.

 

It's stupid and confusing, because GW doesn't categorize natural rolls vs rolls after modifiers well enough.

But that's the way it works.

Edited November 29, 2017 by The Unseen

[MadGreek]

 

I love what I've seen so far. Going to have to pick up a second batch of the Dark Imperium Capt and LTs so I can paint Death Company version of all of them. 

non-primaris only bro!

 

I was wondering about this specifically - because it does say Lieutenants can fall to the rage, but then specifies only non-primaris Marine HQ can fall, so are we getting "regular" Marine Lieutenants? Or is that something we already have that I missed in 8th?

Edited November 29, 2017 by MadGreek

[Pendent]

The whole idea is that for most things that matter there's no way to automatically create a positive result- you always have to have that die roll and there's always the chance of failing. The only exception I can think of off hand in the core rules are morale tests.

[Panzer]

And that’s fine that 5+++ is DG’s schtick; it can stay that way. I want one, 1, singular, unit to have a 5+++, instead of being a psycho Iron Hands marine in red, not for our army to be red Nurgle worshippers. FNP has been DC’s schtick for 15+ years.

I heavily disagree here. A 5+++ is not DG's schtick. ARMYWIDE 5+++ is. There are plenty units who have a 5+++ as well or ways to give it a unit. The Slaanesh psychic power and Shield Drones to name just two. And in 7th 5+++ was the standard FnP and 6+++ the exception.

 

A natural one is always a fail.

...but then you would never get re-roll’s for 1’s with a Capt et al either.

 

Of course you do.

It's rolling dice -> apply re-rolls -> sort out 1s -> apply modifer -> check for successes.

[Bremon]

 

 

And that’s fine that 5+++ is DG’s schtick; it can stay that way. I want one, 1, singular, unit to have a 5+++, instead of being a psycho Iron Hands marine in red, not for our army to be red Nurgle worshippers. FNP has been DC’s schtick for 15+ years.

I heavily disagree here. A 5+++ is not DG's schtick. ARMYWIDE 5+++ is. There are plenty units who have a 5+++ as well or ways to give it a unit. The Slaanesh psychic power and Shield Drones to name just two. And in 7th 5+++ was the standard FnP and 6+++ the exception.

Army-wide 5+++ being their “ARMYWIDE” schtick was what I insinuated in my post, since there isn’t a unit called “death guard”, but I’ll try to be more explicit in the future so we can avoid any heavy disagreements over how finely a hair can be split. As I said, I’m not trying to take away from DG’s character by having some half-decent FNP on one, single unit in other armies.

[Panzer]

 

 

And that’s fine that 5+++ is DG’s schtick; it can stay that way. I want one, 1, singular, unit to have a 5+++, instead of being a psycho Iron Hands marine in red, not for our army to be red Nurgle worshippers. FNP has been DC’s schtick for 15+ years.

I heavily disagree here. A 5+++ is not DG's schtick. ARMYWIDE 5+++ is. There are plenty units who have a 5+++ as well or ways to give it a unit. The Slaanesh psychic power and Shield Drones to name just two. And in 7th 5+++ was the standard FnP and 6+++ the exception.

Army-wide 5+++ being their “ARMYWIDE” schtick was what I insinuated in my post, since there isn’t a unit called “death guard”, but I’ll try to be more explicit in the future so we can avoid any heavy disagreements over how finely a hair can be split. As I said, I’m not trying to take away from DG’s character by having some half-decent FNP on one, single unit in other armies.

 

I apologize, I must have misunderstood your post then.

[Aothaine]

I literally quoted the rules. You didn’t miss an FAQ, you overlooked some core rules. A modifier can make you fail. It can’t prevent you from failing. +1 on a plasma; ok, you didn’t overheat... but you still missed. It doesn’t make you auto-hit, and it doesn’t make you auto-wound.

My apologies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^ the banner is in addition to, not instead of.

Ohhh dang! That is even more amazing then!

Yup. So a Company Ancient is insane where you get a 5+ to ignore a Wound, then a 4+ to go out swinging if you fail the 5+.

 

On a different note...have we discussed +1 To Wound means Thunder hammers et al can never fail to Wound MEQ?

 

Modifiers are applied after re-rolls. So any 1’s lying around get +1. 1+1 = 2. Therefore any of our CQW’s that need a 2+ To Wound can’t fail to Wound?

 

Does it explicitly say anywhere that’s 1’s ALWAYS fail? Even if it does, huh get a +1 after all other modifiers...it’s the inverse of how Corbulo’s exploding 6’s can never effect Power Fists or Thunder Hammers.

A natural one is always a fail.

This can't be true. Because you can roll 1s with plasma with a +1 modifier and not over heat. Am I missing a rule or a FAQ? I also want to point out that GW did verify that a -1 can make plasma over heat. So a +1 to wound with a thunder hammer would always wound when it is wounding on 2+ prior to the modifer and you roll a 1. Success and failure are determined after modifiers. Pretty sure I'm correct on this point.

You don't overheat when you roll a natural 1, you overheat when your roll after modifiers is 1.

BUT you always miss (or fail to wound) on a natural die roll of 1, regardless of any other modifiers.

So with a +1 ability on overcharged plasma, a 1 misses, but doesn't overheat.

Overheating isn't considered a "failure" for the natural 1s always fail clause.

 

It's stupid and confusing, because GW doesn't categorize natural rolls vs rolls after modifiers well enough.

But that's the way it works.

 

 

Thanks a bunch for clarifying that. Strange that a +1 to hit prevents the over-heating but not the miss though. Still pretty good for CSM terminators double tapping with the Slaanesh stratagem to fire twice with Prescience. 

[Damon Nightman]

Just want to say I enjoy reading through disagreements that end amicably especially on the Internets.

 

We have a great community here!

 

But um about that community article... Both my 1st co. list and my D.C. list seem like they got a lot more fun to play! Once I finish my vow I'll need to throw together a DC captain!

[Irbis]

So, is Codex: BA a way to make all deep strike army now?

[Karhedron]

So, is Codex: BA a way to make all deep strike army now?

Not unless they have a special rule that overrides the core mechanic. In matched play, you cannot put more than 50% of your army in Tactical Reserve.

[Xenith]

So, is Codex: BA a way to make all deep strike army now?

Currently we have no evidence that we can break the max 50% in reserves rule.

[Pendent]

I would be shocked, if delighted, if we didn't have to have 50% of our force down on the table at the start of the match.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

So it looks like no tease today from the community site. =(

 

Found this and thought I would share:

FLG talked about the coming codex in their signals podcast today.

If these guys don't offend ya, they review what they can and inadvertantly a bit more is hinted at it seems.

 

They start talking BA codex around 30 min mark.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/205308791

 

The title on the video is wrong also btw so just click in to the 30 min mark.

 

Seems there isn't alot of news out today so this might scatch that itch some. =)

 

EDIT - They start talking Chapter Approved around 45 min mark and you can skip the rest if you are only there for BA stuffs - FYI

Edited November 29, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[JamesI]

So, is Codex: BA a way to make all deep strike army now?

kind of. 50 reserve, and some can be removed from the board and deep struck same movement phase. Close to pure deep strike.

[Irbis]

 

So, is Codex: BA a way to make all deep strike army now?

Not unless they have a special rule that overrides the core mechanic. In matched play, you cannot put more than 50% of your army in Tactical Reserve.

 

Well yes. But you can say put 4 terminator squads in reserve, 4 jump pack on table. Then, stratagem the jump packs forward as if deep striked. Hmm, OK, I see the issue, only one use of that stratagem per turn. Still, that's one unit more than anyone else can. Two if you aggressively deploy librarian dreadnought or Mephiston forward and propel him using wings as mini-DS. Hmm. With how cheap and long ranged Intercessors now are, BA might potentially have one of best mobility phases in game.

 

One note, BA don't need to allocate spare DS slots to buffing characters. You can drop all heavy hitters in, then redeploy buffer, as long as he has jump pack. Ditto for assault squad with melta guns, you can clear chaff with alpha strike first turn, then redeploy one hidden in the back second turn, without, again, using DS slot allowance. Then there is strike of the Archangel stratagem - rerolling all to hits with shooting might not sound so scary at first - but it seems tailor made for Tartaros, seeing they can load up plasma blasters (overcharged, of course), reaper cannons, grenade launchers and storm bolters, then try to charge after all this. Hmm. I need to see the rest of the book but seems pretty potent so far...

[RelentlessPursuit]

 

So it looks like no tease today from the community site. =(

 

Found this and thought I would share:

FLG talked about the coming codex in their signals podcast today.

If these guys don't offend ya, they review what they can and inadvertantly a bit more is hinted at it seems.

 

They start talking BA codex around 30 min mark.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/205308791

 

The title on the video is wrong also btw so just click in to the 30 min mark.

 

Seems there isn't alot of news out today so this might scatch that itch some. =)

 

OOOOh the look he gave him when he said "the ancients don't move that fast" *sideways glance* "what they don't know yet!"

[Pendent]

I mean, we have the Sanguinary Guard Ancient and I believe the Company Ancient can take a jump pack so I'm guess they just forgot about some of the index options.

[BluejayJunior]

 

 

I love what I've seen so far. Going to have to pick up a second batch of the Dark Imperium Capt and LTs so I can paint Death Company version of all of them. 

non-primaris only bro!

 

I was wondering about this specifically - because it does say Lieutenants can fall to the rage, but then specifies only non-primaris Marine HQ can fall, so are we getting "regular" Marine Lieutenants? Or is that something we already have that I missed in 8th?

 

I was mistaken. But I don't see why we wouldn't. The Space Marine codex has regular LTs. It would be weird to leave them out. 

[RelentlessPursuit]

I mean, we have the Sanguinary Guard Ancient and I believe the Company Ancient can take a jump pack so I'm guess they just forgot about some of the index options.

Maybe, they are actively referring to the index also - check it out.

[Pendent]

 

I mean, we have the Sanguinary Guard Ancient and I believe the Company Ancient can take a jump pack so I'm guess they just forgot about some of the index options.

Maybe, they are actively referring to the index also - check it out.

 

Well, what other ancients would we be getting? We have a terminator, a normal power armored version, a Primaris and then two with jump packs. Probably a biker as well but I don't use bikes. I honestly cannot think of another unit type to add a banner to.