New preview out on WH community

[RelentlessPursuit]

I wasn't suggesting a new unit to carry a banner, merely a way of improving mobility which they just said we don't know about yet.

[Aothaine]

 

 

I mean, we have the Sanguinary Guard Ancient and I believe the Company Ancient can take a jump pack so I'm guess they just forgot about some of the index options.

Maybe, they are actively referring to the index also - check it out.

 

Well, what other ancients would we be getting? We have a terminator, a normal power armored version, a Primaris and then two with jump packs. Probably a biker as well but I don't use bikes. I honestly cannot think of another unit type to add a banner to.

 

 

Fair enough. Maybe an ancient riding a Baal Pred waving his glorious flag about as the Baal screams across the field to flame the enemy?

[Pathstrider]

Surely an ancient on a flying landraider?

[Lord_Caerolion]

In regards to "chaining" wounds through the Banner, I believe the current rules are that it's allowed, GW just tend to look down on creating "infinite chains", like the attempts to take a bunch of Ogryn bodyguards, give them an aura save, and pass the wound around between them until someone made the save. Failing the characters save, passing to a bodyguard, then them taking a save is perfectly fine.

[Aothaine]

In regards to "chaining" wounds through the Banner, I believe the current rules are that it's allowed, GW just tend to look down on creating "infinite chains", like the attempts to take a bunch of Ogryn bodyguards, give them an aura save, and pass the wound around between them until someone made the save. Failing the characters save, passing to a bodyguard, then them taking a save is perfectly fine.

 

I would pack my stuff up and leave if a player pulled that on me. That is so un-sportsmanlike. I might even give the person an eye roll.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

 

 

So it looks like no tease today from the community site. =(

 

Found this and thought I would share:

FLG talked about the coming codex in their signals podcast today.

If these guys don't offend ya, they review what they can and inadvertantly a bit more is hinted at it seems.

 

They start talking BA codex around 30 min mark.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/205308791

 

The title on the video is wrong also btw so just click in to the 30 min mark.

 

Seems there isn't alot of news out today so this might scatch that itch some. =)

 

OOOOh the look he gave him when he said "the ancients don't move that fast" *sideways glance* "what they don't know yet!"

 

 

I am pretty sure that bit was a jump pack reference. They try hard not to reveal what they cannot.

 

I really liked the Thunder Thunder Thunder Hammer bit and one shotting a baneblade with a captain discussion myself =)

[tkni]

It sounds like (DC?) Tycho gets the Gift of Foresight trait then, for a (presumable) 2+/4++/5+++ (rerolling 1s)...

 

oooh:

 

"...for my money, the BA are the hardest hitting melee army in the game... by a lot. By a significant distance. They surpass Chaos... Tyranids hit hard in melee but they're not on the same level."

Edited November 29, 2017 by tkni

[The Unseen]

"...for my money, the BA are the hardest hitting melee army in the game... by a lot. By a significant distance. They surpass Chaos... Tyranids hit hard in melee but they're not on the same level."

You're joking right?

Bezerkers are probably the best melee unit in the game, and Orks and Nids both can drown any marine melee unit in bodies and raw attack numbers.

[Pendent]

That was the FLG guys describing us after the codex drops. In their words we'll basically be a completely different army compared to what we were in 7th or with the Index.

[9x19 Parabellum]

While I appreciate their enthusiasm, and while I think a lot of the stuff in the codex is going to be good, they seemed to suggest stratagems as the integral part of what will make the blood angel codex powerful. The problem with this, in my opinion, is that there are not enough command points to saturate a typical game of 40K with enough stratagems to make their supposed power noticeable. If you have, for example, 5-6 command points, you get to use the good BA stratagems maybe 2-3 times max. If two or three uses of good stratagems are what make the codex powerful I think I may be disappointed. And even with that being said they even admitted that some stratagems and relics we're not particularly great. For example the Veritas VItae is noticeably less powerful than similar relics that do the same thing, triggering off a stratagem usage , as opposed to command point usage.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

While I appreciate their enthusiasm, and while I think a lot of the stuff in the codex is going to be good, they seemed to suggest stratagems as the integral part of what will make the blood angel codex powerful. The problem with this, in my opinion, is that there are not enough command points to saturate a typical game of 40K with enough stratagems to make their supposed power noticeable. If you have, for example, 5-6 command points, you get to use the good BA stratagems maybe 2-3 times max. If two or three uses of good stratagems are what make the codex powerful I think I may be disappointed. And even with that being said they even admitted that some stratagems and relics we're not particularly great. For example the Veritas VItae is noticeably less powerful than similar relics that do the same thing, triggering off a stratagem usage , as opposed to command point usage.

 

I am wondering how that is going to go down also.

Those must be some very badass strats, guess pick a few and plan an army around em is the way forward is the idea.

There were a couple uh oh what? type comments in there for me too *nod.

 

The wait is getting to me.

GW needs to get with some leakage already =)

 

I just figured having a listen to FLG was better than another day without any news at all for many of us.

Some interesting nuggets in there amongst the Sooo Goood rehash =) for sure I thought anyhow.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[JamesI]

 

While I appreciate their enthusiasm, and while I think a lot of the stuff in the codex is going to be good, they seemed to suggest stratagems as the integral part of what will make the blood angel codex powerful. The problem with this, in my opinion, is that there are not enough command points to saturate a typical game of 40K with enough stratagems to make their supposed power noticeable. If you have, for example, 5-6 command points, you get to use the good BA stratagems maybe 2-3 times max. If two or three uses of good stratagems are what make the codex powerful I think I may be disappointed. And even with that being said they even admitted that some stratagems and relics we're not particularly great. For example the Veritas VItae is noticeably less powerful than similar relics that do the same thing, triggering off a stratagem usage , as opposed to command point usage.

 

I am wondering how that is going to go down also.

Those must be some very badass strats, guess pick a few and plan an army around em is the way forward is the idea.

There were a couple uh oh what? type comments in there for me too *nod.

 

The wait is getting to me.

GW needs to get with some leakage already =)

 

I just figured having a listen to FLG was better than another day without any news at all for many of us.

Some interesting nuggets in there amongst the Sooo Goood rehash =) for sure I thought anyhow.

 

There will be a ton of leaks this weekend.  I promise.  The groups that get preview copies promise not to leak stuff until the pre-order goes live (though some stuff leaks anyway).  

[MadGreek]

 

 

 

I love what I've seen so far. Going to have to pick up a second batch of the Dark Imperium Capt and LTs so I can paint Death Company version of all of them. 

non-primaris only bro!

 

I was wondering about this specifically - because it does say Lieutenants can fall to the rage, but then specifies only non-primaris Marine HQ can fall, so are we getting "regular" Marine Lieutenants? Or is that something we already have that I missed in 8th?

 

I was mistaken. But I don't see why we wouldn't. The Space Marine codex has regular LTs. It would be weird to leave them out. 

 

See, thats the art I was missing - I haven't seen the SM Codex, so I was unaware of regular Lieutenants.  Clears things up a bit. Thanks.

[Indefragable]

@9x19 Parabellum:

....maybe that means our Stratagems are THAT good?

 

Regarding the FLG video:

I have to agree with Shane Walsh all the way on the right there: "BA Codexes for the past few editions have been Space Marines with +1S maybe, and some mediocre units, and some mediocre vehicles. Right? This Codex is a brand new army in comparison." 

 

DAMN

 

Regarding the +1 To Wound thing (hidden because I don't want to drag it out)

Hidden Content

 

Not trying to argue nor let semantics ruin my excitement for the new book, but this sort of thing riles me up.

 

I get that 1's always fail. That makes sense and is "fair." And so it would make sense that (after any re-rolls), modifiers can't effect a 1. However, then the inverse should be true where 6's always succeed. But we know that the rules say that -1 To Hit effects 6's. So things like Corbulo's exploding 6's can't work on things like Thunder Hammers.

 

I can go on and on, but it really should be consistent. I can accept that "for reasons. It's GW." Red Thirst does not mean anything with a 2+ To Wound auto-wounds. I don't get the +1 To Hit to OC plasma means the firer doesn't die, but still misses (wha?), but I can accept that there are rules, exceptions to the rules, exceptions to the exceptions, and exception rules (with some exceptions). Again, "reasons." What the heck's a "natural" 1? Who cares. Reasons.

 

So for the sake of fun tables, good sportsmanship, and simplicity, I would say 1's always fail and whatnot, but I would not say it can be proven in a court of law with all the other contradictory examples given

 

rant over.

 

[Bonzi]

 

"...for my money, the BA are the hardest hitting melee army in the game... by a lot. By a significant distance. They surpass Chaos... Tyranids hit hard in melee but they're not on the same level."

You're joking right?

Bezerkers are probably the best melee unit in the game, and Orks and Nids both can drown any marine melee unit in bodies and raw attack numbers.

The statement may be fairly literal given our chapter tactic. In this case 'hardest hitting' might not mean best melee units in the game...it may be speaking directly to our ability to put wounds on tough targets by hitting 'hard'.

 

Consider a basic SM thunder hammer vs a heavy vehicle or monster (T8). For SM these weapons have a 50/50 chance to wound. Consider BA thunder hammer. With +1 to wound rolls we wound on a 3+ (16% better) but we have Sang Priests, with that our hammers can wound on a T8 on a 2+ (33% better cumulative), and those extra wounds translate to extra D3 wounds. To do the same other armies need St 16 weapons which are rare. We do it with a cheap aura and our innate rule. We literally hit harder.

 

Zerkers, Orks, Nids do it with volume...we stack wounds by hitting hard. Now I would agree those other armies are better 'melee' armies, but I can appreciate that GW gave us a different path to close combat that isn't about hordes or swinging wildly. We are BA, not World Eaters redux.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Bonzi

[Brother Crimson]

DAMN

 

Regarding the +1 To Wound thing (hidden because I don't want to drag it out)

Hidden Content

 

Not trying to argue nor let semantics ruin my excitement for the new book, but this sort of thing riles me up.

 

I get that 1's always fail. That makes sense and is "fair." And so it would make sense that (after any re-rolls), modifiers can't effect a 1. However, then the inverse should be true where 6's always succeed. But we know that the rules say that -1 To Hit effects 6's. So things like Corbulo's exploding 6's can't work on things like Thunder Hammers.

 

I can go on and on, but it really should be consistent. I can accept that "for reasons. It's GW." Red Thirst does not mean anything with a 2+ To Wound auto-wounds. I don't get the +1 To Hit to OC plasma means the firer doesn't die, but still misses (wha?), but I can accept that there are rules, exceptions to the rules, exceptions to the exceptions, and exception rules (with some exceptions). Again, "reasons." What the heck's a "natural" 1? Who cares. Reasons.

 

So for the sake of fun tables, good sportsmanship, and simplicity, I would say 1's always fail and whatnot, but I would not say it can be proven in a court of law with all the other contradictory examples given

 

rant over.

 

The Reroll and modifiera to dice rolls is the wierdest rule in 8 th.

[Pendent]

 

DAMN

 

Regarding the +1 To Wound thing (hidden because I don't want to drag it out)

Hidden Content

 

Not trying to argue nor let semantics ruin my excitement for the new book, but this sort of thing riles me up.

 

I get that 1's always fail. That makes sense and is "fair." And so it would make sense that (after any re-rolls), modifiers can't effect a 1. However, then the inverse should be true where 6's always succeed. But we know that the rules say that -1 To Hit effects 6's. So things like Corbulo's exploding 6's can't work on things like Thunder Hammers.

 

I can go on and on, but it really should be consistent. I can accept that "for reasons. It's GW." Red Thirst does not mean anything with a 2+ To Wound auto-wounds. I don't get the +1 To Hit to OC plasma means the firer doesn't die, but still misses (wha?), but I can accept that there are rules, exceptions to the rules, exceptions to the exceptions, and exception rules (with some exceptions). Again, "reasons." What the heck's a "natural" 1? Who cares. Reasons.

 

So for the sake of fun tables, good sportsmanship, and simplicity, I would say 1's always fail and whatnot, but I would not say it can be proven in a court of law with all the other contradictory examples given

 

rant over.

 

The Reroll and modifiera to dice rolls is the wierdest rule in 8 th.

 

It seems counter intuitive at first but it exists to prevent weird edge cases from popping up and getting exploited.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

 

 

"...for my money, the BA are the hardest hitting melee army in the game... by a lot. By a significant distance. They surpass Chaos... Tyranids hit hard in melee but they're not on the same level."

You're joking right?

Bezerkers are probably the best melee unit in the game, and Orks and Nids both can drown any marine melee unit in bodies and raw attack numbers.

The statement may be fairly literal given our chapter tactic. In this case 'hardest hitting' might not mean best melee units in the game...it may be speaking directly to our ability to put wounds on tough targets by hitting 'hard'.

 

Consider a basic SM thunder hammer vs a heavy vehicle or monster (T8). For SM these weapons have a 50/50 chance to wound. Consider BA thunder hammer. With +1 to wound rolls we wound on a 3+ (16% better) but we have Sang Priests, with that our hammers can wound on a T8 on a 2+ (33% better cumulative), and those extra wounds translate to extra D3 wounds. To do the same other armies need St 16 weapons which are rare. We do it with a cheap aura and our innate rule. We literally hit harder.

 

Zerkers, Orks, Nids do it with volume...we stack wounds by hitting hard. Now I would agree those other armies are better 'melee' armies, but I can appreciate that GW gave us a different path to close combat that isn't about hordes or swinging wildly. We are BA, not World Eaters redux.

 

 

Yeah I think you are really on to something there for certain.

 

Now consider that type of thing also on something with lots of high damage attacks such as the Captain, Mephiston, Sanguinor? etc.

We will perhaps be knocking greater daemons into next week like they do in the stories.

 

Great point about doing it differently too. +1 to GeeDubs for that.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Panzer]

While I appreciate their enthusiasm, and while I think a lot of the stuff in the codex is going to be good, they seemed to suggest stratagems as the integral part of what will make the blood angel codex powerful. The problem with this, in my opinion, is that there are not enough command points to saturate a typical game of 40K with enough stratagems to make their supposed power noticeable. If you have, for example, 5-6 command points, you get to use the good BA stratagems maybe 2-3 times max. If two or three uses of good stratagems are what make the codex powerful I think I may be disappointed. And even with that being said they even admitted that some stratagems and relics we're not particularly great. For example the Veritas VItae is noticeably less powerful than similar relics that do the same thing, triggering off a stratagem usage , as opposed to command point usage.

Well that's pretty normal for many armies in 8th tho. CSM for example would be a LOT weaker without their stratagems as well. (+1 to wound, shooting twice, infiltration for alpha legion and so on)

[sebs_evo7]

Anyone else think dante with come with CPs? I'm thinking 2-3 to be level with other characters. That means with a 1500 point game you could easyily start with 9

[Panzer]

I'd be disappointed if Dante were to come without bonus CP.

I'm also thinking about spending that extra CP to take the Veritas Vitae...if I manage to roll even just one 5+ it's already not wasted and everything after that is a bonus.

[Panzer]

So I just re-read the Strike of the Archangels Stratagem.

 

While it's true that our Terminators don't have as awesome shooting as CSM Terminators so the use is a good bit more limited (especially for 2CP) I realised that it says that we can re-roll failed to hit rolls until the start of our next turn.

So two things: 1. It doesn't specify what kind of hit rolls (means melee as well) and 2. It works during our fight phase and during the whole enemys turn as well.

 

This gives the Stratagem a few more uses than just the initial burst which are worth considering imo.

1. If you get into melee you re-roll your hit roles there as well which is gold for Thunder Hammers

2. You re-roll overwatch shots as well

3. You still re-roll all your to-hit rolls in melee in your opponents turn if you pulled of the 9" charge or if he was so foolish to charge you

 

Of course all those things aren't important if they get simply shot off of the table and/or don't get the charge, but the Standard of Sacrifice and the core re-roll stratagem should help out a lot there.

 

Food for thoughts.

Edited November 30, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Lord_Caerolion]

It's a good area-denial tool against melee-focused enemies.

 

*Lightning claw Termies drop down in front of the Boyz about to grab an objective* "Bring it."

[CrimsonExarch]

So I just re-read the Strike of the Archangels Stratagem.

 

While it's true that our Terminators don't have as awesome shooting as CSM Terminators so the use is a good bit more limited (especially for 2CP) I realised that it says that we can re-roll failed to hit rolls until the start of our next turn.

So two things: 1. It doesn't specify what kind of hit rolls (means melee as well) and 2. It works during our fight phase and during the whole enemys turn as well.

 

This gives the Stratagem a few more uses than just the initial burst which are worth considering imo.

1. If you get into melee you re-roll your hit roles there as well which is gold for Thunder Hammers

2. You re-roll overwatch shots as well

3. You still re-roll all your to-hit rolls in melee in your opponents turn if you pulled of the 9" charge or if he was so foolish to charge you

 

Of course all those things aren't important if they get simply shot off of the table and/or don't get the charge, but the Standard of Sacrifice and the core re-roll stratagem should help out a lot there.

 

Food for thoughts.

This is why I sincerely hope there will be another army wide rule for being battleforged that will assist charges in some way....be it deepstriking closer than normal, giving rerolls or +x to charge distances. I feel like it is plain needed at this point to make the army truly competitive. 

[Morticon]

I hate to say it guys, but GW have led with the best.  

Those hoping for hidden specials that will further enhance this are going to be bitterly disappointed.  

Where our strengths will come is in finding out how best to work with those awesome abilities granted.