Jorre Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Your probably right morty! But I still cant wait to dive in and find all those hidden little nuggets and synergies that nobody sees at first glance! Good times coming! Bring on the tidal wave of leaks!! Morticon and Aothaine 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Leaving aside answers along the lines of "because it's pants!", why do people feel the (what was called FnP) save of those with the Black Rage will be altered from 6+++?It’s difficult to answer this question with the stipulation you’ve put in place, but I would say that with the relative frequency of FNP and invulnerable saves in games I play that a 6+++ makes no meaningful difference at all. Death Guard as a faction have access to a plethora of both 5++ and 5+++; it’s wnough to be annoying and a notable trait. A plain 6+++ is only going to raise an opponents eyebrows maybe 1% of the time. A 6+++ is more notable on a Ven Dread because it can take the edge off a missile or lascannon shot, and is like adding a wound or two to the model on average. 6+++ on DC doesn’t even statistically add a single body to a 5 man squad, and seeing as Ven Dreads/ Death Guard etc. have an effective range far greater than 1” it would be appreciated if DC were a touch more durable. This, I think is GWs biggest ball drop with the DC. :( Theyre strong, and the reliable 4 attacks on the charge is good - but Vanguard can get that - for cheaper - just at the cost of a pistol - and get a 5+++ from the banner :/ DC will be a synergy choice from now on - those wanting to use them for certain combos. Just wish GW had the foresight to make them at least comparable to the Vanguard. Would even look at paying a point more each for the 5+++ instead of 6+++ <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelentlessPursuit Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I hate to say it guys, but GW have led with the best. Those hoping for hidden specials that will further enhance this are going to be bitterly disappointed. Where our strengths will come is in finding out how best to work with those awesome abilities granted. Have you seen the codex? FLG indicated there is a ton more combos and synergy to come. Morticon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Vanguards and DC are just too redundant. One of them is always the better choice over the other. At this point I think that Vanguards don't even have a place in our codex anymore to be honest. Aothaine 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Vanguards and DC are just too redundant. One of them is always the better choice over the other. At this point I think that Vanguards don't even have a place in our codex anymore to be honest. I hate to say it guys, but GW have led with the best. Those hoping for hidden specials that will further enhance this are going to be bitterly disappointed. Where our strengths will come is in finding out how best to work with those awesome abilities granted. FLG indicated there is a ton more combos and synergy to come. There will definitely be tons more combos and synergy - but this wont necessarily come from the one or two relics and the one or two relevant strats that have not yet been released to the general public. The amount of options these open will either be minimal, or be more of the same theme expected. Combos with Lieutenants, Chaplains, librarians (through psychic powers) and Sanguinor will be huge - but this is nothing unexpected. Scouts, Reivers, Jumpies - all new viability to these previous concepts - Aggressive BA will be the flavour - heck - you could even make rhino rush work to a limited degree. I rate that possibly Sang Guard but more likely VanVets may even be more popular than DC with the banner - unless Lemartes becomes staple and people look to that reroll charge - but Astorath is more likely given his options. This weekend will be super exciting as JamesI mentioned, as more leaks are set to be released. Vanguards and DC are just too redundant. One of them is always the better choice over the other. At this point I think that Vanguards don't even have a place in our codex anymore to be honest. Would suggest waiting and seeing for what they do with DC first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Vanguards and DC are just too redundant. One of them is always the better choice over the other. At this point I think that Vanguards don't even have a place in our codex anymore to be honest. Would suggest waiting and seeing for what they do with DC first. Yeah of course. We don't have the whole picture yet. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Alrighty then. Still it all sounds pretty great to me even put in that light Morticon *nod. Do your visions still indicate a great and flavorful Blood Angels codex? Is the weekend here yet?? How about now??? ... =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Aaaannnd this just in from my boss. Productivity is down and staring at my phone is up! TheHarrower, Ishagu, 9x19 Parabellum and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Alrighty then. Still it all sounds pretty great to me even put in that light Morticon *nod. Do your visions still indicate a great and flavorful Blood Angels codex? Nothing's changed from that post. Crimson Ghost IX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Then there is strike of the Archangel stratagem - rerolling all to hits with shooting might not sound so scary at first - but it seems tailor made for Tartaros, seeing they can load up plasma blasters (overcharged, of course), reaper cannons, grenade launchers and storm bolters, then try to charge after all this. Can you take multiple plasma blasters in a Tartaros squad? In the Index list, only the sergeant can take a plasma blaster but I have not seen the entry in the SM Codex so I don't know if this is likely to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathstrider Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Only the sergeant in the SM codex too. Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 VV will still have a specific role in our Codex as long as DC don't have access to storm shields. One unit for aggression, the other if you want more protection. Company Vets can do it at a smaller size with the character save too but if you want a larger flying squad with SSs you need the VVs. For most situations I'd be using the DC though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 If we don't get any mobility strats i'm leaning towards Rhinos/Razorbacks to get us into combat with a few shooty veichles to make sure our rhinos don't die turn 1. I hope they don't expect us to just hope for 9" charges. Gonna play a game on saturday to test the preview changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I hope they don't expect us to just hope for 9" charges. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 If we don't get any mobility strats i'm leaning towards Rhinos/Razorbacks to get us into combat with a few shooty veichles to make sure our rhinos don't die turn 1. I hope they don't expect us to just hope for 9" charges. Gonna play a game on saturday to test the preview changes. This sounds like it might be a promising approach. A screen of light shooty vehicles containing some Tac squads perhaps with the Jump packers advancing behind that screen on Turn 1. On turn 2, the infantry disembark and take up firing positions while the jump packers leap over to get into charge range. I agree that relying on 9" charges is not a reliable strategy. Lemartes Deep Striking with 3+ DC units could make a decent threat if you accept that 2 units at most will be able to charge. Bolter DC probably work best in this role as their shooting on the turn they drop may be more valuable than their CC skills. I can still see DSing being useful, even in this build. Reserving some of your units gives you flexibility and helps force your opponent to show his hand during deployment. Also, units like Termies or shooty JP Vets dropping in on Turn 1 can put pressure on your enemy. You do some damage with your shooting and if you make a few charges, that is a bonus. In his turn, your opponent is faced with multiple targets at close range which makes target prioritisation hard. Crimson Ghost IX and Thrown Pommel 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Talking about command points one of the Smurf players has something close to 20 maybe a couple more CPs in a 2k list? I don't think it would be farfetched for us to get close to that realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Troops are the most efficient was to generate CPs I think. 6 MSU Scouts squads is just 330 points before upgrades and if you take CCWs, they can make decent use of our Trait. If you want to run a Brigade you then need 3 each of FA, Elite and Heavy. 3 RAS special weapon caddies will cost about 300 points. 3 Dev squads with 4 Lascannons will set you back about 500 points although there are cheaper options available. Elites can be filled out with characters like Ancients for 300 points or less. That comes to less than 1500 points meaning you have over 500 points to spend on HQs, Transports or upgrading the units above to something a bit beefier. 12 CPs in 2000 points are quite managable but I am struggling to see how you could get many more without crippling the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) Morticon, did they send you a preview copy Or something? That letter to GW pay off? ;) Edited November 30, 2017 by Brother Lemartes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Jon Snow knows more than Morticon when it comes to the upcoming Codex... Brother_Mike, Remtek, Dont-Be-Haten and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelentlessPursuit Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Does he actually know/seen a preview? because otherwise just being a Debbie downer :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Jon Snow knows more than Morticon when it comes to the upcoming Codex... But Jon Snow knows nothing? Oh... Panzer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) Morticon, did they send you a preview copy Or something? That letter to GW pay off? Nope, nope, they defs didnt send me a preview copy. So...for now.... lets assume Jolemai has it right because otherwise just being a Debbie downer Nah, just managing expectations!! The dex will be good good. But, not broken/brilliant/OP - I still maintain codex will come in at a solid B/B+ 75% to account for the various gripes and ball drops in design in terms of missed opportunities. So - let's wait and see what gets unveiled this weekend! Loads more to sink y'all teeth into then. Edited December 1, 2017 by Morticon Aothaine, Damon Nightman and Panzer 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I agree that relying on 9" charges is not a reliable strategy. Lemartes Deep Striking with 3+ DC units could make a decent threat if you accept that 2 units at most will be able to charge. Bolter DC probably work best in this role as their shooting on the turn they drop may be more valuable than their CC skills. What do you mean? Who would want to build three squads of 45 DC with jump packs bolters and chainswords with a few power swords mixed in followed closely behind by a sang priest and other buffing HQ options? That just seems... silly. Who would want 90 bolter shots on turn one then 3+ potential charges? Madness I say. Madness. I'm totally building this lol! Kallas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 You could be in the all thunder hammers lot. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 According to Battlescribe (yeah, I know) you can't put a bolter and a thunder hammer on a single model anymore :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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