New preview out on WH community

[VanDutch]

 

 

 

Who is the guy with fruit platter next to Gravis captain?

Some sort of servitor bringing nibbles mid-battle?

 

There is a Death Company guy hiding in there, and it's anyone's guess as to what the large flying object is above the winged statue...

[JamesI]

Is the DC free move a pre-game thing only? That could be kind of pointless if you don't get turn 1...

pregame.

[Aramis K]

 

 

 

 

 

Who is the guy with fruit platter next to Gravis captain?

 

On the stream they just mentioned it being Chapter Serfs. There is another one next to the Reiver.

And another flying top left. Seems impressive for a serf.

[TheHarrower]

I fixed the art if anyone wants to use it as a background.

 

 

They said the dudes with the platters were there to catch the falling blood of the blood angels when they were in combat. Kinda cool.

[Emissary]

Some thoughts:

 

I'm curious to see exactly how the free move for death company at the beginning of the game stratagem is worded.  If it is just a free move, that would mean a free 12" for jump pack death company and a free 8" for death company dreadnoughts.  That's pretty huge for first turn charges, especially if you can use it after you know who is going first.  This sets up fairly reliable first turn charges if you know you're going first, especially if you're playing on a board that doesn't start you 24" apart.  Knowing exactly when you have to use this stratagem is really important.  It could put them on a level close to alpha legion berserkers.  

 

I don't think that death company are bad myself.  Like most other things, I just think they're overpriced.  If they also come down (significantly) I think they would be fine.  

 

I like the warlord traits so far.  All four that we know are pretty good buffs to the warlord.  

 

Overall, I'm excited for what I've seen.  It gives good flavor and things make sense.  I think many of our things are already good to great, just they're overpriced.  If most of the codex unit entries are similar to the index only with a reduced cost I will be very happy.  I don't play the game on a hype-competitive level, so have no real idea or thought about how this will react in that setting (probably good as a detachment with another army) but I think this codex will be good in a normal-casual scene.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Emissary

[Leonaides]

Generic 40k servitors... they were on the cover of the 5th ed codex too.

[DemonGSides]

Some sort of Blood Thrall probably.

Real question is; are we now an anti-chaos chapter?  Of course we've always had our feud with Ka'Bandha (sp?) but we also fought lots of tyranids, plenty of orks, and even a few Tau fights.  But the strategems and that art make me think that with Dante's new role in the Imperium we might be tasked with taking on Chaos in all forms.

[Karack Blackstone]

Congratulations BA players, if this is a sign as to what my Space Wolves might be like, GW appears to be trying to genuinely do each Codex and force both fluffy and fitting on the table(s).

 

As things are now, again, this is great news.

[Pendent]

That picture is incredibly rad. One of the biggest things I'm looking forward to with the new codex is the updated art- there was some really good stuff in the vanilla codex and from what I see here there's going to be some amazing new pictures in ours.

I'm a little bit disappointed with what they revealed today but on the whole still feel very hopeful for the codex. If all we got was Index rules with points adjustments and what we say Monday we'd still be in a decent spot, but some of the strategems sound pretty cool. The big disappointment for me is Dante, for sure, especially if they were talking about him not being a good strategist compared to Calgar. For a stream like that they really should have have people that knew their stuff talking and Dante has clearly been a master strategist in both fluff and rules for some time. Still, with a points drop he'll remain perfectly usable if uninspiring. 

I'm really hoping that the sword they revealed isn't the only relic sword we get. I've been hoping Valor's Edge will come back with some cool rules because my converted Captain model is modeled with a Sword and while Relic Blades will be pretty usable with The Red Thirst I was hoping for something cheaper/better.


Edit: Man, that Reiver on the bottom left just looks so incredibly brutal. I may end up picking up another box to model with the knives

Edited December 1, 2017 by Pendent

[Guest]

Some sort of Blood Thrall probably.

Real question is; are we now an anti-chaos chapter?  Of course we've always had our feud with Ka'Bandha (sp?) but we also fought lots of tyranids, plenty of orks, and even a few Tau fights.  But the strategems and that art make me think that with Dante's new role in the Imperium we might be tasked with taking on Chaos in all forms.

Aren't all chapters anti-everything. Wolves, DA, UM all had their fill of chaos, Tyranids, orks, and Eldar. I think BA are in a interesting position, but not tasked as specialists to kill chaos.

[Panzer]

I fixed the art if anyone wants to use it as a background.

 

 

They said the dudes with the platters were there to catch the falling blood of the blood angels when they were in combat. Kinda cool.

You just removed the border, the pic is still cut in half. :D

[Panzer]

Some sort of Blood Thrall probably.

 

Real question is; are we now an anti-chaos chapter?  Of course we've always had our feud with Ka'Bandha (sp?) but we also fought lots of tyranids, plenty of orks, and even a few Tau fights.  But the strategems and that art make me think that with Dante's new role in the Imperium we might be tasked with taking on Chaos in all forms.

Aside from the other races still being our enemies....yes with the Tyranid thread gone for now and Chaos running wild we are anti-chaos. Like everyone else basically. ;)

[TheHarrower]

 

I fixed the art if anyone wants to use it as a background.

 

 

They said the dudes with the platters were there to catch the falling blood of the blood angels when they were in combat. Kinda cool.

You just removed the border, the pic is still cut in half.

 

 

I matched it up as best as I could in 5 mins. When the digital dex drops we'll have access to it I'm sure.

[DemonGSides]

 

Some sort of Blood Thrall probably.

Real question is; are we now an anti-chaos chapter?  Of course we've always had our feud with Ka'Bandha (sp?) but we also fought lots of tyranids, plenty of orks, and even a few Tau fights.  But the strategems and that art make me think that with Dante's new role in the Imperium we might be tasked with taking on Chaos in all forms.

Aren't all chapters anti-everything. Wolves, DA, UM all had their fill of chaos, Tyranids, orks, and Eldar. I think BA are in a interesting position, but not tasked as specialists to kill chaos.

 

 

Obviously I even gave examples of us being just that.  But the strategem that lets us mess with Black Legion specifically just seems awfully specific for what we normally would have gotten if they had the same  system during, say, 7th edition.  There, we probably would've gotten that same rule just against Tyranids.

 

Just an observation and an interesting thing.  I wasn't saying we weren't enemies with the others or that we couldn't, that seems  like a pretty large leap to make from what I posted.

[Booley]

 

 

Some sort of Blood Thrall probably.

Real question is; are we now an anti-chaos chapter?  Of course we've always had our feud with Ka'Bandha (sp?) but we also fought lots of tyranids, plenty of orks, and even a few Tau fights.  But the strategems and that art make me think that with Dante's new role in the Imperium we might be tasked with taking on Chaos in all forms.

Aren't all chapters anti-everything. Wolves, DA, UM all had their fill of chaos, Tyranids, orks, and Eldar. I think BA are in a interesting position, but not tasked as specialists to kill chaos.

 

 

Obviously I even gave examples of us being just that.  But the strategem that lets us mess with Black Legion specifically just seems awfully specific for what we normally would have gotten if they had the same  system during, say, 7th edition.  There, we probably would've gotten that same rule just against Tyranids.

 

Just an observation and an interesting thing.  I wasn't saying we weren't enemies with the others or that we couldn't, that seems  like a pretty large leap to make from what I posted.

 

Well, Horus was the primarch of the Black Legion and he killed Sanguinius, so I don't think it's that much of a leap to say we aren't their biggest fans.

[Palwatch]

The twitch stream was very frustrating. The guy who was reviewing it had no idea what was in it. He didnt even know a chaplain could go DC with the strat. That defies logic. The first hour was just fluff that anyone who plays the game will already know, and stuff that had already been revealed. The second half was mych of the same, with some hard sell on primaris which I expected.

 

That said

 

The extra stuff we did get was very satisfying. DC were never going to get fight twice with +1 to wound. That would be insane. The strats available to them will make a huge diff. The strat for BP will make them terrifying. The points reductions for dreads is very welcome, as is the reduction in our special weaponry; angels bolters, infernos and flamers.

 

For everyone complaining about dante in comparison to calgar, you seem to be forgetting her has a jump pack. Thats a big deal. Dante will come down in price, although the lack of a command point for the most important man in the north is baffeling

 

the sudden negativity based on what was, honestly, a terrible twitch presentation is depressing. There is SO much to love.

 

Ill be bailing on this group until i have the codex in my hand. Im catching the depression, and i dont want to be that guy

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Now that they have the Red Thirst, I'm not sure Death Company are necessarily overpriced, especially when you look at Khorne Berzerkers (which I do use on a regular basis as World Eaters). When you factor in the fighting twice, DC only have 1 less attack on the charge (this gap obviously gets bigger with chainswords or if they're World Eaters), but the Red Thirst  I think is easily better than the S5 statline (S6 with the axe) of the zerks. Consider also that with zerks, you really have to build in the cost of a Rhino (unless you're Alpha Legion, but then you lose that extra attack on the charge and suddenly that particular stat is looking pretty close again) to actually get them to their target without dying- for a 7 or 8 man squad, you're hovering around 8PPM. We can simply pay 3PPM and deepstrike them. All of a sudden DC are starting to look a bit more efficient- if you want to keep the units at a similar point for point cost, sprinkle a few power weapons in and spread the cost per model over the whole of the squad and you're looking considerably more nasty. Then you get the 6+++ on top of that which is...better than not having it I guess? 

 

My knee jerk reaction re: DC was also extremely negative, but once you look at them and comparable units...they're looking pretty nice.

 

As for a comparison with Vanguard Vets- I guess the only difference is you're paying 1PPM for +1A on the charge and 6+ FNP, but get access to storm shields (unless I'm missing something), so it's dealer's choice at that point.

[Panzer]

As I mentioned in the N&R thread, there's something in the transcript nobody else seems to have noticed or simply didn't mention yet:

 

 

Strategium Increase Charge distance (no details given)

 

If it's 2+ inch and useable after deep strike it's gold and possibly the most useful stratagem in the whole Codex. Even if it's only 1" or "roll 3d6 ignore lowest" it's still very good.

[Pendent]

As I mentioned in the N&R thread, there's something in the transcript nobody else seems to have noticed or simply didn't mention yet:

 

 

Strategium Increase Charge distance (no details given)

 

If it's 2+ inch and useable after deep strike it's gold and possibly the most useful stratagem in the whole Codex. Even if it's only 1" or "roll 3d6 ignore lowest" it's still very good.

I don't think it's possible to beat Upon Wings of Fire. That's got to be one of the strongest strategems in the entire game

[Emissary]

As I mentioned in the N&R thread, there's something in the transcript nobody else seems to have noticed or simply didn't mention yet:

 

 

Strategium Increase Charge distance (no details given)

 

If it's 2+ inch and useable after deep strike it's gold and possibly the most useful stratagem in the whole Codex. Even if it's only 1" or "roll 3d6 ignore lowest" it's still very good.

 

Agreed

[Panzer]

 

As I mentioned in the N&R thread, there's something in the transcript nobody else seems to have noticed or simply didn't mention yet:

 

 

Strategium Increase Charge distance (no details given)

 

If it's 2+ inch and useable after deep strike it's gold and possibly the most useful stratagem in the whole Codex. Even if it's only 1" or "roll 3d6 ignore lowest" it's still very good.

I don't think it's possible to beat Upon Wings of Fire. That's got to be one of the strongest strategems in the entire game

 

Upon wings of fire is great but being able to reposition our FLY units quickly seems pretty pointless if we can't get our heavy hitters into melee to actually kill something. ;)

[Riot Earp]

Hm as the librarian dread is a character he can get extra attacks through Strategium Red rampage.

[Damon Nightman]

The twitch stream was very frustrating. The guy who was reviewing it had no idea what was in it. He didnt even know a chaplain could go DC with the strat. That defies logic. The first hour was just fluff that anyone who plays the game will already know, and stuff that had already been revealed. The second half was mych of the same, with some hard sell on primaris which I expected.

 

That said

 

The extra stuff we did get was very satisfying. DC were never going to get fight twice with +1 to wound. That would be insane. The strats available to them will make a huge diff. The strat for BP will make them terrifying. The points reductions for dreads is very welcome, as is the reduction in our special weaponry; angels bolters, infernos and flamers.

 

For everyone complaining about dante in comparison to calgar, you seem to be forgetting her has a jump pack. Thats a big deal. Dante will come down in price, although the lack of a command point for the most important man in the north is baffeling

 

the sudden negativity based on what was, honestly, a terrible twitch presentation is depressing. There is SO much to love.

 

Ill be bailing on this group until i have the codex in my hand. Im catching the depression, and i dont want to be that guy

I apologize if my negatively spilled over to you or anyone else! Not my intention, just really bumbed about Dante not being a great strategist apparently.

 

The rules themselves all seem and sound pretty good overall! Definitely the best we've got for a long long time!

 

I can't wait to start seeing tactic threads pop up!

[Pendent]

 

 

As I mentioned in the N&R thread, there's something in the transcript nobody else seems to have noticed or simply didn't mention yet:

 

 

Strategium Increase Charge distance (no details given)

 

If it's 2+ inch and useable after deep strike it's gold and possibly the most useful stratagem in the whole Codex. Even if it's only 1" or "roll 3d6 ignore lowest" it's still very good.

I don't think it's possible to beat Upon Wings of Fire. That's got to be one of the strongest strategems in the entire game

 

Upon wings of fire is great but being able to reposition our FLY units quickly seems pretty pointless if we can't get our heavy hitters into melee to actually kill something.

 

It can do that but that's only a part of it's strength. The ability to kill is always good but I've always said this game is won and lost in the movement phase and what Upon Wings of Fire does is give you a tremendous number of options.

It's lets you heavily punish any mistakes your opponent makes in their positioning. If they move their screening units too far forward you can immediately jump a squad of something scary into the gap to punish their backline. Remember that Inceptors also have jump packs so we'll be able to move them all over the table so we don't necessarily depend on making the charge after our redeploy.

 

It also gives us the opportunity to easily redeploy buffing characters to where they are needed most. Maybe you deepstrike a bunch of jump infantry along with Dante for an alpha strike but they get mostly killed after that first turn. You can yank Dante out for a single CP so he can start providing his re-rolls to your own backfield or someplace else where he can keep generating value for you.

 

There's also the fact that we can pull a squad of out a disadvantageous combat using this strategem and then have the chance of getting them into another fight on the same turn.

Let's also not forget the obvious use in taking objectives which alone makes it a game winning strategem.

 

 

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be very nice to be able to make 9" charges more consistently but I really feel like people are underestimating how insanely strong a 1cp redeployment for most units in our army that can't be denied is.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Pendent

[TheFinisher4Ever]

I think the points changes will make or break this codex. The biggest problem with the index was that most of our unique units were overpriced. If they fix the pricing issues, and with the inclusion of the Red Thirst and the great stratagems we've already seen, we will be in a good place.