Chaplain Gunzhard Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) Again, just surrounding it, is not enough in 8th edition. This doesn't kill them because there are no exits. It's just a range they have to deploy in and it would take a huge mob of DC to pull this off. Edited December 5, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Listen to the Chaplain he has the right of it *nod. Surrounding vehicles is almost impossible with most units. Transports are much much safer in 8th than previous editions in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booley Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Again, just surrounding it, is not enough in 8th edition. This doesn't kill them because there are no exits. It's just a range they have to deploy in and it would take a huge mob of DC to pull this off. They have to deploy within 3" of the rhino and not within 1" of any of your models. Entirely doable. I had a game last night where after killing a rhino he was only able to deploy 2 models because anything else was within 1" of one of my models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semirhagge Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Again, just surrounding it, is not enough in 8th edition. This doesn't kill them because there are no exits. It's just a range they have to deploy in and it would take a huge mob of DC to pull this off. They have to deploy within 3" of the rhino and not within 1" of any of your models. Entirely doable. I had a game last night where after killing a rhino he was only able to deploy 2 models because anything else was within 1" of one of my models. This is how it works, If you completely surround the rhino with 32mil bases which is 1.26" they mathematically cannot deploy within 3" but further than 1" from enemy model. However it's still unreliable to count on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World. Except that's half the named Chapter Masters. Helbrecht, Draigo, and Dante don't. Grimnar doesn't either, but Bjorn does. And Calgar, Azrael, and Dante make up the big, codex compliant 3. Helbrecht, Grimnar, and Draigo aren't known for being strategist. (Except for Helbrecht in void battles) All 3 of them are personal combatants, and charisma based leaders. Dante is known for being one of the BEST strategist. Over a millennium of personal experience leading a chapter will do that. Not only did Calgar acede command to Dante during the war for Armegaddon, all the other chapter masters have at least 1 unique rule. Draigo let's Grey Knights reroll to wound daemons, logan gives immunity to morale, and helbrecht gives I believe +1 str on the charge in a bubble, calgar halves damage he takes, and azrael gives an a freaking 4++ in a bubble. Dante literally has equipment, and the chapter master rule, and nothing else. He's a naked beatstick in a codex full of more of the same, and in some cases better than him. And his 1 aura bubble is redundant if you go with fluff and run him with Sanguinary Guard, as he should be. He's by far the worst blunder of the new dex, basically no reason to ever take him. He's an over costed beat stick with nothing unique or fun about him, and he isn't even that good a beatstick, mostly due to how squishy he is for his 220 pts. 6 T4 wounds with a 2+/4++ is nothing extraordinary, when your getting hit with d3 or better hits with -2 ap. Calgar/Abaddon hands him his ass, thanks to halving the damage they take, and they hit just as hard, and Calgar is CHEAPER than Dante is right now. Orpheus Black Blood 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) Pedro and Shrike don’t. Lias and Wayland don’t. Furthermore the other chapter masters like Culn, Tyberos, and Seth don’t. The Watchmaster doesn’t either. And ftr Helbrect is +1 STR Period. And Calgar doesn’t bring Aura buffs like most Chapter Masters. And Logan only makes WOLF GAURD Moral immune. And Dragio rerolls damage rolls not wound rolls. The majority of chapter Masters don’t give command points Edited December 5, 2017 by Schlitzaf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) Again, just surrounding it, is not enough in 8th edition. This doesn't kill them because there are no exits. It's just a range they have to deploy in and it would take a huge mob of DC to pull this off. They have to deploy within 3" of the rhino and not within 1" of any of your models. Entirely doable. I had a game last night where after killing a rhino he was only able to deploy 2 models because anything else was within 1" of one of my models. This is how it works, If you completely surround the rhino with 32mil bases which is 1.26" they mathematically cannot deploy within 3" but further than 1" from enemy model. However it's still unreliable to count on. Also realize they have to deploy 'within' 3 not 'entirely within' 3 - so touching 3 is good enough. It's a pretty big zone on a rhino, good luck with a raider. It is doable yes. Difficult under most conditions. There is a way to escape usually in my experience. Might kill a few of em tho and definately somethign to try for *nod. Also remember enemy models can prevent you from getting around in a circle too. Edited December 5, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX Morticon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World. So 3/6 Chapter Masters with Rules get them? I don't think that's extremely rare I think either command point bonus to buff the army as a whole, powerful aura ability to buff in the locale, or powerful combat ability to be self serving should be themes. You get 1 of these, maybe 2, but shouldn't get all three. I think Calgar gets all 3. Dante gets one. Orpheus Black Blood 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Spoilers dude! Lol. He had an amazing turn 1, but watching this I think a lot of people that start with the new Codex are going to make similar mistakes. All those buff characters he had got strung out and didn't get to contribute until it was too late. The way the table was laid out, he could have dropped in behind cover and saved the CPs from Descent of Angels. We have delivery systems, but I still think people that think they are going to get a ton of charges off turn 1 are in for a surprise. It's a bit of a gimmick. I definitely like the Sanguinary Guard a lot now. They tanked a ton of wounds from those Berzerkers with that banner. I think I agree. Throwing everything in T1 might work in casual play but against practiced opponents you will end up wasting your power against the chaff mostly. I think the trick is probably going to be layered assaults so you hit with the DC turn 1 to clear the chaff and create a landing zone. T2 the Sanguinary Guard drop in and use DoA to charge something more valuable etc. You need to keep back enough points for a firebase or you will struggle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World. Honestly I'd give them to Dante before even considering Azrael or Huron. I wonder if his lack of rules is caused by new model based on DoB fluff being already underway... Pendent, Morticon and Quixus 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palwatch Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 God I hope so Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World. So 3/6 Chapter Masters with Rules get them? I don't think that's extremely rare I think either command point bonus to buff the army as a whole, powerful aura ability to buff in the locale, or powerful combat ability to be self serving should be themes. You get 1 of these, maybe 2, but shouldn't get all three. I think Calgar gets all 3. Dante gets one. Can we stop spreading misinformation? 3 out of 16 named Chapter Masters get them. Second Calgar gives the CP instead of having an Aura buff beside rerolls. And every CM is close combat monster Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World. So 3/6 Chapter Masters with Rules get them? I don't think that's extremely rare I think either command point bonus to buff the army as a whole, powerful aura ability to buff in the locale, or powerful combat ability to be self serving should be themes. You get 1 of these, maybe 2, but shouldn't get all three. I think Calgar gets all 3. Dante gets one. Can we stop spreading misinformation? 3 out of 16 named Chapter Masters get them. Second Calgar gives the CP instead of having an Aura buff beside rerolls. And every CM is close combat monster For his cost, Dante should have more than he does. I think people felt he should have granted some CP because his lore has been that hes a master strategist, that has been a large part of what makes him him for decades. The other being that he always leads from the front. He's a decent beat stick character (I'd be interested to see him vs emperors champion though, that guy is a monster vs characters, Dante does get better vs characters too though). I personally think rather than bonus CP, I'd have been fine with his deathmask having a unique effect (something like a 6" bubble instead of 3, and say it stacks with sanguinary guard ones for a -2 Ld) His pistol should have become 12" again too, he had a melta pistol before they were really a thing for anyone else, it had a unique name "THE PERDITION PISTOL". Those two changes would have made him stand out tbh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Where do you get 16 Chapter Masters with unique rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Forged World + Games Workshop Watchmaster Gabriel Seth Shrike Logan Azrael Helbrect Pedro Lias Culn Vayland Cal Huron Tyberos Marnues Moloc Dante Draigo Or if you don’t count Watchmaster that is 15 Blindhamster 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Forged World + Games Workshop Watchmaster Gabriel Seth Shrike Logan Azrael Helbrect Pedro Lias Culn Vayland Cal Huron Tyberos Marnues Moloc Dante Draigo Or if you don’t count Watchmaster that is 15 .... Malakim Phoros. Chapter Master of the Lamenters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Forged World + Games Workshop Watchmaster Gabriel Seth Shrike Logan Azrael Helbrect Pedro Lias Culn Vayland Cal Huron Tyberos Marnues Moloc Dante Draigo Or if you don’t count Watchmaster that is 15 Colour me corrected Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Colour me corrected Sure, but would that be #ffffff or #f0f1ce for Tippex? Dont-Be-Haten and Panzer 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4951639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Is dante really a master stratergist? Or is that just what we want to beleive? I dont beleive GW have ever seen him that way. I think they see him as an inspiring leader and a beacon of hope but beyond that hes just a space marine chapter master who has lived a really long time. So he has seen alot, and people differ to his leadership because of his seniority, but that doesnt make him anymore a stragergist than the people he is leading. In fact I dont beleive Dante thinks hes special at all, I think that he beleives hes still alive by luck and force of will! If youve read his books, hes always relied on his generals or underlings to help formulate stratergies, he gets the final say but hes not coming up with the plans all by himself like some kind of savount! Im still a Dante fanboy and beleive he should get +10 command points and eternal warrior back! Panzer, brother_b and Blindhamster 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4952294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Im still a Dante fanboy and beleive he should get +10 command points and eternal warrior back! Really Jorre, that's just too OP. +9 command points will be more than enough! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4952369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Is dante really a master stratergist? Or is that just what we want to beleive? I dont beleive GW have ever seen him that way. I think they see him as an inspiring leader and a beacon of hope but beyond that hes just a space marine chapter master who has lived a really long time. So he has seen alot, and people differ to his leadership because of his seniority, but that doesnt make him anymore a stragergist than the people he is leading. In fact I dont beleive Dante thinks hes special at all, I think that he beleives hes still alive by luck and force of will! If youve read his books, hes always relied on his generals or underlings to help formulate stratergies, he gets the final say but hes not coming up with the plans all by himself like some kind of savount! Im still a Dante fanboy and beleive he should get +10 command points and eternal warrior back! That was my impression as well but I didn't read all the BA novels so I didn't want to say anything. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4952379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) Was Napolean a Master Strategist or did he just let the Marshal cadre do all the work... C'mon Dante is THE MAN. Since like forever in 40k lore going back decades. He was just further ordained as such with his largest Imperial command yet. After fighting a brilliant strategic multisystem campaign against a vastly superior enemy with what resources he could gather largely on his own... Would you seriously be happy with just -1 leadership Deathmask and a 12inch Melta pistol ?? Tho he should have these things also IMO. And a new frigging model and points cost - hopefully soon. I am prepared to give GW time, but damn he should be what his fluff says he is. /Rant off Edit : Oh and to be clear I am not mad at you or anything Jorre =) I just feel strongly that Dante is master strategist level brilliant *nod. Edited December 6, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4952389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 I feel your rant..... I used to feel the same, but ive been playing since second. This is always the way with Dante, his fluff is always awsome. Buuuut rules wise he has always been lackluster. Dante has always been slightly good at everything, but never the best at anything. Maybe Gw just dont get him or maybe they still have plans for a future release. Crimson Ghost IX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4952394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Saying that I still regularly use him. He is overcosted atm but jump packs on a chapter master is really useful and the Ba codex made it better Riot Earp 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341791-new-preview-out-on-wh-community/page/27/#findComment-4952395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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