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Xerxus

By Xerxus
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Booley Novitiate

Booley

Posted
Posted

Again, just surrounding it, is not enough in 8th edition. This doesn't kill them because there are no exits. It's just a range they have to deploy in and it would take a huge mob of DC to pull this off.

They have to deploy within 3" of the rhino and not within 1" of any of your models. Entirely doable. I had a game last night where after killing a rhino he was only able to deploy 2 models because anything else was within 1" of one of my models.

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Semirhagge Battle-Brother

Semirhagge

Posted
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Again, just surrounding it, is not enough in 8th edition. This doesn't kill them because there are no exits. It's just a range they have to deploy in and it would take a huge mob of DC to pull this off.

They have to deploy within 3" of the rhino and not within 1" of any of your models. Entirely doable. I had a game last night where after killing a rhino he was only able to deploy 2 models because anything else was within 1" of one of my models.

 

This is how it works, If you completely surround the rhino with 32mil bases which is 1.26" they mathematically cannot deploy within 3" but further than 1" from enemy model. However it's still unreliable to count on.

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The Unseen Veteran

The Unseen

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Posted

Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World.

Except that's half the named Chapter Masters.

Helbrecht, Draigo, and Dante don't.

Grimnar doesn't either, but Bjorn does.

And Calgar, Azrael, and Dante make up the big, codex compliant 3.

 

Helbrecht, Grimnar, and Draigo aren't known for being strategist. (Except for Helbrecht in void battles)

All 3 of them are personal combatants, and charisma based leaders.

Dante is known for being one of the BEST strategist.

Over a millennium of personal experience leading a chapter will do that.

 

Not only did Calgar acede command to Dante during the war for Armegaddon, all the other chapter masters have at least 1 unique rule.

Draigo let's Grey Knights reroll to wound daemons, logan gives immunity to morale, and helbrecht gives I believe +1 str on the charge in a bubble, calgar halves damage he takes, and azrael gives an a freaking 4++ in a bubble.

 

Dante literally has equipment, and the chapter master rule, and nothing else.

He's a naked beatstick in a codex full of more of the same, and in some cases better than him.

And his 1 aura bubble is redundant if you go with fluff and run him with Sanguinary Guard, as he should be.

 

He's by far the worst blunder of the new dex, basically no reason to ever take him.

He's an over costed beat stick with nothing unique or fun about him, and he isn't even that good a beatstick, mostly due to how squishy he is for his 220 pts. 6 T4 wounds with a 2+/4++ is nothing extraordinary, when your getting hit with d3 or better hits with -2 ap.

Calgar/Abaddon hands him his ass, thanks to halving the damage they take, and they hit just as hard, and Calgar is CHEAPER than Dante is right now.

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Schlitzaf Veteran

Schlitzaf

Posted
Posted (edited)

Pedro and Shrike don’t. Lias and Wayland don’t. Furthermore the other chapter masters like Culn, Tyberos, and Seth don’t. The Watchmaster doesn’t either.

 

And ftr Helbrect is +1 STR Period. And Calgar doesn’t bring Aura buffs like most Chapter Masters. And Logan only makes WOLF GAURD Moral immune. And Dragio rerolls damage rolls not wound rolls. The majority of chapter Masters don’t give command points

Edited by Schlitzaf
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Crimson Ghost IX Battle-Brother

Crimson Ghost IX

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

Again, just surrounding it, is not enough in 8th edition. This doesn't kill them because there are no exits. It's just a range they have to deploy in and it would take a huge mob of DC to pull this off.

They have to deploy within 3" of the rhino and not within 1" of any of your models. Entirely doable. I had a game last night where after killing a rhino he was only able to deploy 2 models because anything else was within 1" of one of my models.

 

This is how it works, If you completely surround the rhino with 32mil bases which is 1.26" they mathematically cannot deploy within 3" but further than 1" from enemy model. However it's still unreliable to count on.

 

 

Also realize they have to deploy 'within' 3 not 'entirely within' 3 - so touching 3 is good enough.

It's a pretty big zone on a rhino, good luck with a raider.

 

It is doable yes. Difficult under most conditions.  There is a way to escape usually in my experience.

Might kill a few of em tho and definately somethign to try for *nod.

 

Also remember enemy models can prevent you from getting around in a circle too.

Edited by Crimson Ghost IX
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Xenith Venerable Brother

Xenith

Posted
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Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World.

 

So 3/6 Chapter Masters with Rules get them? I don't think that's extremely rare :happy.:

 

I think either command point bonus to buff the army as a whole, powerful aura ability to buff in the locale, or powerful combat ability to be self serving should be themes. You get 1 of these, maybe 2, but shouldn't get all three.

 

I think Calgar gets all 3. Dante gets one.

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Karhedron Venerable Brother

Karhedron

Posted
Posted

Spoilers dude! Lol. He had an amazing turn 1, but watching this I think a lot of people that start with the new Codex are going to make similar mistakes. All those buff characters he had got strung out and didn't get to contribute until it was too late. The way the table was laid out, he could have dropped in behind cover and saved the CPs from Descent of Angels. We have delivery systems, but I still think people that think they are going to get a ton of charges off turn 1 are in for a surprise. It's a bit of a gimmick.

 

I definitely like the Sanguinary Guard a lot now. They tanked a ton of wounds from those Berzerkers with that banner.

I think I agree. Throwing everything in T1 might work in casual play but against practiced opponents you will end up wasting your power against the chaff mostly. I think the trick is probably going to be layered assaults so you hit with the DC turn 1 to clear the chaff and create a landing zone. T2 the Sanguinary Guard drop in and use DoA to charge something more valuable etc. You need to keep back enough points for a firebase or you will struggle.

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Irbis Veteran

Irbis

Posted
Posted

Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World.

 

Honestly I'd give them to Dante before even considering Azrael or Huron.

 

I wonder if his lack of rules is caused by new model based on DoB fluff being already underway...

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Schlitzaf Veteran

Schlitzaf

Posted
Posted

 

 

Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World.

So 3/6 Chapter Masters with Rules get them? I don't think that's extremely rare :happy.:

 

I think either command point bonus to buff the army as a whole, powerful aura ability to buff in the locale, or powerful combat ability to be self serving should be themes. You get 1 of these, maybe 2, but shouldn't get all three.

 

I think Calgar gets all 3. Dante gets one.

Can we stop spreading misinformation? 3 out of 16 named Chapter Masters get them. Second Calgar gives the CP instead of having an Aura buff beside rerolls. And every CM is close combat monster
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Blindhamster Venerable Brother

Blindhamster

Posted
Posted

 

 

Also guys don’t forget having CP associated with CM is exceptionally rare. Only three Chapter Masters that. Marnues, Azreal and Luft Huron from Forged World.

So 3/6 Chapter Masters with Rules get them? I don't think that's extremely rare :happy.:

 

I think either command point bonus to buff the army as a whole, powerful aura ability to buff in the locale, or powerful combat ability to be self serving should be themes. You get 1 of these, maybe 2, but shouldn't get all three.

 

I think Calgar gets all 3. Dante gets one.

Can we stop spreading misinformation? 3 out of 16 named Chapter Masters get them. Second Calgar gives the CP instead of having an Aura buff beside rerolls. And every CM is close combat monster

 

 

For his cost, Dante should have more than he does. I think people felt he should have granted some CP because his lore has been that hes a master strategist, that has been a large part of what makes him him for decades. The other being that he always leads from the front.

 

He's a decent beat stick character (I'd be interested to see him vs emperors champion though, that guy is a monster vs characters, Dante does get better vs characters too though).

 

I personally think rather than bonus CP, I'd have been fine with his deathmask having a unique effect (something like a 6" bubble instead of 3, and say it stacks with sanguinary guard ones for a -2 Ld)

 

His pistol should have become 12" again too, he had a melta pistol before they were really a thing for anyone else, it had a unique name "THE PERDITION PISTOL".

 

Those two changes would have made him stand out tbh.

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Xenith Venerable Brother

Xenith

Posted
Posted

Forged World + Games Workshop

Watchmaster

Gabriel Seth

Shrike

Logan

Azrael

 

Helbrect

Pedro

Lias

Culn

Vayland Cal

 

Huron

Tyberos

Marnues

Moloc

Dante

Draigo

 

Or if you don’t count Watchmaster that is 15

 

Colour me corrected :happy.:

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Jorre Venerable Brother

Jorre

Posted
Posted

Is dante really a master stratergist? Or is that just what we want to beleive?

 

I dont beleive GW have ever seen him that way. I think they see him as an inspiring leader and a beacon of hope but beyond that hes just a space marine chapter master who has lived a really long time. So he has seen alot, and people differ to his leadership because of his seniority, but that doesnt make him anymore a stragergist than the people he is leading. In fact I dont beleive Dante thinks hes special at all, I think that he beleives hes still alive by luck and force of will!

 

If youve read his books, hes always relied on his generals or underlings to help formulate stratergies, he gets the final say but hes not coming up with the plans all by himself like some kind of savount!

 

Im still a Dante fanboy and beleive he should get +10 command points and eternal warrior back!

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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

Posted
Posted

Is dante really a master stratergist? Or is that just what we want to beleive?

 

I dont beleive GW have ever seen him that way. I think they see him as an inspiring leader and a beacon of hope but beyond that hes just a space marine chapter master who has lived a really long time. So he has seen alot, and people differ to his leadership because of his seniority, but that doesnt make him anymore a stragergist than the people he is leading. In fact I dont beleive Dante thinks hes special at all, I think that he beleives hes still alive by luck and force of will!

 

If youve read his books, hes always relied on his generals or underlings to help formulate stratergies, he gets the final say but hes not coming up with the plans all by himself like some kind of savount!

 

Im still a Dante fanboy and beleive he should get +10 command points and eternal warrior back!

That was my impression as well but I didn't read all the BA novels so I didn't want to say anything. :D

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Crimson Ghost IX Battle-Brother

Crimson Ghost IX

Posted
Posted (edited)

Was Napolean a Master Strategist or did he just let the Marshal cadre do all the work...

 

C'mon

Dante is THE MAN.

 

Since like forever in 40k lore going back decades.

He was just further ordained as such with his largest Imperial command yet.

After fighting a brilliant strategic multisystem campaign against a vastly superior enemy with what resources he could gather largely on his own...

 

Would you seriously be happy with just -1 leadership Deathmask and a 12inch Melta pistol  ??

Tho he should have these things also IMO.

 

And a new frigging model and points cost - hopefully soon.

I am prepared to give GW time, but damn he should be what his fluff says he is.

 

/Rant off

 

Edit :

Oh and to be clear I am not mad at you or anything Jorre =) I just feel strongly that Dante is master strategist level brilliant  *nod.

Edited by Crimson Ghost IX
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Jorre Venerable Brother

Jorre

Posted
Posted

I feel your rant..... I used to feel the same, but ive been playing since second. This is always the way with Dante, his fluff is always awsome. Buuuut rules wise he has always been lackluster.

 

Dante has always been slightly good at everything, but never the best at anything. Maybe Gw just dont get him or maybe they still have plans for a future release.

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