Filing of details from Finecast?

[DaBoiKyknos]

Hey, I just wondered how difficult, doable it is to file of symbols, chapter insignia and similiar things from Finecast models.

 

I had bought me this Crimson Fist- Captain, holding a chopped off ork head over his, well, head, (this recreation of the classic Rogue Trader cover art, I think it was the 20th Space Marines anniversary model?) but I rather want to use him for my custom chapter (and the scenic base for a Dreadnought ṕrobably). He got big Fist  iconography on the shoulder pad and knee. 

So would it be to remove that, without ruining it? :/

 

Greetings, LordVelype

 

 

[Major_Gilbear]

The material is very soft, and you're better off scraping the detail off very gently and carefully with a knife. Afterwards, smooth the area with some putty or model filler.

 

Using a file risks damaging the model I think, as the resin is so delicate.

[hushrong]

I agree with Major_Gilbear and say cut it away due to the softness of GW's resin. A xacto blade of even clippers are best for removing finecast details.

 

Then just go back for any touch ups if needed. The slower you go and cutting multiple, small amounts at a time you should be right as rain.

[Subtle Discord]

I'm not saying Major is outright incorrect, but in my opinion, it really depends on the quality of the file. If you use a moderately good quality file it should have no problem producing a very clean surface, even if the resin is a bit softer. If scraping the details away with a knife results in a surface that needs putty to smooth the area, I can't see how a file is going to produce a significantly worse outcome. I use files and sanding sticks all but exclusively, on any material I work with, to remove mould lines, details (when needed), and to clean off vent/sprew stumps, and I get great results every time.
 
That's not to say a sharp blade doesn't have it's uses, and as suggested, I would used a blade to shave off the bulk of the material, file the surface to get it down to the desired shape, and used a fine sanding stick or a bit of fine sandpaper to finish the job. I contend that a file will give you more control to achieve the desired outcome; this is the kind of job a file was created to do, carefully shave away at a surface. Opposed to a blade that is intended to cut materials, not necessarily for scraping away at them.
 

 
I know, this is an image of me working with styrene and the piece is rather large, but it is exactly the same approach I personal would use to remove surface details from any model made from any material. Shave off the bulk with a blade; shape the surface with files; refine the surface with a sanding stick; and polish the surface with a brush with shortened bristles to make them nice and stiff. Note that I was using a very coarse file during this process, and I still achieved a wonderful final surface.

[Major_Gilbear]

@ Subtle Discord:

 

Everything you've posted would be my usual advice (even with most other resin figures) except with Finecast.

 

The stuff is very delicate, and even if it looks okay, it often turns out to be Swiss cheese inside when you start to cut parts away.

 

For a limited edition model, I personally just wouldn't risk damaging it.

[Subtle Discord]

I can't see how shaving away at the model with a knife won't expose these supposed under-the-surface flaws but somehow a file will; in fact, I contend that I will be more gentle and offer more control as one works, reducing the chances of unwanted damage. If there are clusters of bubbles creating a foam/froth structure in the resin, it doesn't matter what you use, if you expose them they will show.

 

I have some older Finecast models with the suspect 'softer resin' and while I have't done a lot of work on them I have removed them from the sprew and filed away at them to remove mould lines and sprew stumps. While the resin is awful and strangely kind of 'rubbery', for lack of a better word, I had no problem using a file. I'll also add that I haven't worked on any new Finecast models, but I have seen a few more recent reviews claiming that GW has improved the quality of the resin in the line. I can't provide a person account of that, however.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Major_Gilbear is probably trying to prevent the Finecast from tearing when filed with metal files. Especially if one uses improper filing form (back and forth, sawing, high pressure) instead of proper form (one direction only, gentle, zero pressure letting the teeth do all the work).

 

If you want to file Finecast iconography down, I would recommend using something like hobby sanding sticks, fine sandpaper, or fingernail emery boards rather than harsh metal files. I'm sure it's possible to file Finecast with metal files if you know what you're doing.

[Subtle Discord]

Major_Gilbear seemed quite clear in his suggestions, as he always is, when taking the time to comment/suggest. Using a file is not exactly something that requires serious technique; at least it takes no more practice then many/most of the tools a builder will use all the time. While it's true that completely proper technique is to go in one direction, the pressure is dictated by the job that needs to be done; sometimes I press very hard, sometimes very lightly, but it's not difficult to control. The primary reason for filing in one direction is so that you can get the longest life out of the teeth of the file on hard materials (going backwards blunts the teeth more quickly), not really for the sake of the surface of the material. On soft plastic it makes little difference and I often file back-and-forth and even in circles if it will achieve the result I need. Applying more or less pressure is no harder/easier with a file then a scraping blade or a finger nail or sand paper, and I still argue that a file will give the builder much more control then a scraping blade in all but the simplest tasks.

 

Also, nowhere did I say find the harshest file possible file and have at it. My noting of the coarse file (by hobby file standards) in my demonstration image was to show that coarse files can easily produce great results. I said if you use even a 'modestly good' file you'll get better results then scarping a blade over the surface, and I stand by that. While I do think spending $25 on three high quality jeweler files, that will last a lifetime, is a shrewd investment for anyone who builds lots of models, even a few modestly good hobby files picked up from a hobby/mode/train shop will produce very good results. Yes, if I take a file meant for sharpening chainsaw teeth and start using on my models, I can expect it to make a mess. To use the same logic, who cares what grit of sandpaper you use? 80, 320, 600, 1200... just grab some and start grinding away and if it makes a bad result it must be your technique. As with sandpaper, use a file appropriate for the job and the results will be excellent.

 

As an aside, if Finecast resin actually peels away in layers if you try to file at it (not my experience, even with older Finecast), well geez GW, what the heck are you selling?! That is a fault of the material, not really the file. And if so, I still contend that any tool that sheers at a material like that will likely create similar results. A good (key word) file should actually be your best chance to avoid such a result, likely tied with some fine grit sandpaper, and both still better then other crude scraping actions.

 

Ok, I'm sorry, I'll shut up now. Can you tell I finally have a bit of time to actually talk hobby?  But seriously, after using some crappy files for a few years, I discovered how amazing it is to work with a good file and it has forever changed my hobby experience. It doesn't make mould line removal any more enjoyable, but it does make the job happen with much less effort, no matter the material.

[Stoic Raptor]

I removed all of the Ultramarine symbols from my Finecast Telion - it was mostly a combination of scraping with a knife and sanding with a fine emery board, but I do also have some very small, fine files (I think they're typically called watchmaker's files) that work okay on the material.

 

Just go carefully, remove a little at a time, and don't get crazy.

[Major_Gilbear]

@ Subtle Discord:

 

Sorry if my last reply came across as abrupt - it was late, and I was typing via my phone (a very frustrating experience at the best of times!).

 

The quality of Finecast did improve overall after the first few waves of releases, and the anniversary Crimson Fist part of this "better quality" wave of releases. It was speculated that because it was to be sold in strictly limited numbers, that proper time was allocated ahead to ensure that they were all cast well. In contrast, the rush to move many existing models to Finecast meant the earlier efforts were often rather poor - the models were rushed and the QA was poor/lax in order to keep up with demand. Unless you happen to get a "legacy" model that was made and packed during this period, the newer models are all much better and more consistent casts (not least because demand for Finecast has dropped significantly after widespread disappointment, so they can spend more time getting the casts right now).

 

Nonetheless, the material still best resembles a stiff pencil eraser, and can therefore hard to work with. My recent (and very reluctant) purchases of the stuff have continued to show what we all knew anyway; big chunky models/parts are usually better than smaller or detailed models/parts, and that bubbles still get caught in small details, corners, and other sharp details.

 

Although I have no doubt that super-high quality files are usable and effective, a sharp knife and care will produce a good result very simply. The filler is not only to smooth the area, but also to fill in the almost inevitable bubbles that will be encountered (as the icon is a fine detail area). If you're applying a little filler over the area, I would suggest that getting the filler smooth with a little emery paper afterwards is also going to be less traumatic that trying to do the same directly to the bare Finecast.

 

Therefore, whilst my feelings are aligned with yours in terms of using high-quality tools, I also recognise that most people simply don't have these and are unlikely to buy them for occasional projects. I consequently try to suggest the easiest method using the most likely equipment to get a good result. However, that doesn't mean that I disagree with you on technique or finish, nor does it mean that one answer is more "correct" than another. In any case, I trust that LordVelype now has plenty of advice on the matter, and can make an informed decision accordingly. :)

[Subtle Discord]

Just to ensure that a spirit of good will is understood about this, and in general with me. I rarely, if ever, get worked up or upset in any way when I comment on or debate a subject. Life is simply too short for such things. I just tend to be wordy and verbose, especially if I feel I need to properly explain why I have certain (admittedly, sometime strong) opinions on a subject. Again, I've worked some with Finecast, just never really showcased it, and while the resin was very poor, I didn't find it was particularly difficult to file, just very flexible and of a strange consistency. Also, I don't really use 'super-high quality' hard to get files; I use $7 jeweler files that are no harder to get then ordering something online from GW or Amazon. They are noticeably better than hobby shop quality files (for about the same price) and hobby shop files are considerably better then most offerings you'll find at a typical hardware store. It could also be noted that the original poster did specifically ask if it was "...difficult, doable to file off symbols..." and I contend that files are a preferably suitable option if they are at hand. And if you builds lots of models, as many of us around these parts are apt to do, a few good files is a very sensible modest investment if you don't already have some.

[DaBoiKyknos]

Fine Sandpaper for the last touch?

 

Edit: Managed to remove the stuff with clippers, hobby knife. 

Thanks for your advice, guys! 

Edited November 29, 2017 by LordVelype

[Ciler]

If you decide to go and file off any significant amount of detail, do so in a well ventilated area and wear a dust mask if possible. Resin dust can de a bit of a health hazard.

[DaBoiKyknos]

Oh, no I didn´t do that...  

Thanks for the advice, though.

Edited November 29, 2017 by LordVelype

[Subtle Discord]

In small quantities you'll be fine, all things considered. Unfortunately we're all exposed to diluted pollutants every day. But yeah, polyurethane resin/plastic dust is a known carcinogen so prolonged and/or excessive exposure should be avoided. I little bit of sanding on a model produces such a small amount that it's not too serious, but if you're producing significant dust do your best to avoid inhaling or ingesting it.