Post Chapter Approved

[Prot]

Speaking beyond point costs, I am curious ( be honest) if in the post CA universe, will you play you AdMech any differently.

 

Sure the changes are point alterations, but does this make you rethink any unit? Or a new Forgeworld? Or even a new list idea?

 

I personally have been dabbling with CC in my AdMech. Unfortunately Russtalkers got nothing ( very odd) and although I personally enjoy Dragoons they got nothing as well. But that being said I’m giving greater consider to dropping Destroyers entirely ( I think after this CA they might be dead to me competitively) and go with high volume Ranger/Vanguard lists to compliment my Assault element which will grow)

 

My second idea is to get Knights more involved in my lists. I have three of them but they kind of stink in 8 th. But with point reductions in troops, and HQs, this does open the door for me to squeeze it in easier. Plus we support them better than anyone with repairing up to.., 2-3 wounds? Also sharing Canticles and pumping shields.

 

How about you guys, any new thoughts for playstyle?

[RealMirage]

For me it will just make it easier to take allies like some Space Marine librarians or the like. Garia is no where near enough anti-psyker that AdMech needs to survive in a Smite spam and Psychic power spam world.

[banis]

I just played vs smite spam, magnus and -2 tohit havocs and obiliterators.. And if i am to have any chance i need more anti psyker( looking at you greyfax) and more CC elements. While robots are cool and all...hitting on 6+ really doesnt cut it. 

[LegioX]

I just played vs smite spam, magnus and -2 tohit havocs and obiliterators.. And if i am to have any chance i need more anti psyker( looking at you greyfax) and more CC elements. While robots are cool and all...hitting on 6+ really doesnt cut it. 

What is the best way to include Grayfax? Do I need to do the -1 CP detachment in order to not lose all my ad mech benefits?

[Charlo]

Speaking beyond point costs, I am curious ( be honest) if in the post CA universe, will you play you AdMech any differently.

 

...

I’m giving greater consider to dropping Destroyers entirely ( I think after this CA they might be dead to me competitively) 

 

...

 

How comes, I thought they got a reduction?

[banis]

 

I just played vs smite spam, magnus and -2 tohit havocs and obiliterators.. And if i am to have any chance i need more anti psyker( looking at you greyfax) and more CC elements. While robots are cool and all...hitting on 6+ really doesnt cut it. 

What is the best way to include Grayfax? Do I need to do the -1 CP detachment in order to not lose all my ad mech benefits?

 

Just take a patrol detachments.  1 HQ(greyfax) and 1 troop which could be anything with the imperium keyword. Could even be 5 rangers to make it easy. They just wouldnt get ad mech benefits.

[Ammonius]

 

 

I just played vs smite spam, magnus and -2 tohit havocs and obiliterators.. And if i am to have any chance i need more anti psyker( looking at you greyfax) and more CC elements. While robots are cool and all...hitting on 6+ really doesnt cut it. 

What is the best way to include Grayfax? Do I need to do the -1 CP detachment in order to not lose all my ad mech benefits?

 

Just take a patrol detachments.  1 HQ(greyfax) and 1 troop which could be anything with the imperium keyword. Could even be 5 rangers to make it easy. They just wouldnt get ad mech benefits.

 

Depending on how many points you want to commit, a Vanguard detachment led by Greyfax with 3 assassins has served me well the past couple of months. I use 3 Culexus Assassins because of how hard they are to hit, and because one of my primary opponents runs Thousand Sons.

 

Also, depending on his points cost, Sly Marbo might be a good choice to add some spice to a mostly-AdMech soup.

[Prot]

For me it will just make it easier to take allies like some Space Marine librarians or the like. Garia is no where near enough anti-psyker that AdMech needs to survive in a Smite spam and Psychic power spam world.

 

Some really good thoughts guys. I too feel that psychic protection is mandatory in a competitive environment. BUT it can't handicap what the list does.... so perhaps these points reductions help us here? I have been using elements of Inquisition in other lists, but there's no reason they can't or shouldn't be used here (as some of you have already come up with good ideas).

 

 

 

I just played vs smite spam, magnus and -2 tohit havocs and obiliterators.. And if i am to have any chance i need more anti psyker( looking at you greyfax) and more CC elements. While robots are cool and all...hitting on 6+ really doesnt cut it. 

What is the best way to include Grayfax? Do I need to do the -1 CP detachment in order to not lose all my ad mech benefits?

 

 

 

So there's some good stuff in this thread already. So I'll tell you what I do:

 

Take a Vanguard. Use "Imperium Keyword" to get the legalities out of the way. The HQ is whatever you like really. I would love to experiment with Celestine, even with her point increase. However to date I've only used Greyfax. Her Denials are good... they have saved my bacon on the odd occasion but the bread and butter here is the assassins.

 

In part I use Greyfax because I love her background... the self loathing hater of witches. And anyone that can wear a hat with a candle on it is pretty awesome....

 

The good thing about the assassins overall is they fill a niche that we can use. If you take Infiltrators for example, and include the Culexus, then he can absorb a lot of junk while protecting your guys, and in return he may be a Smite sponge. If he's the closest model it can be a good shut down tool for a turn or two. (they often attract a LOT of attention.)

 

There's nothing wrong with the Eversor. I have used the Callidus but it's been a while, and the sniper one, just doesn't work for me, nor do I think he is necessary for us.(Although I do hear success stories with him).

 

If you're pinched for points what I do is make one of the Acolyte. Basically he's jumping in front of bullets for Greyfax. You can always go dirt cheap with a vanilla Inquisitor... it doesn't have to be Greyfax. Cheap HQ's might get you  multiple Culexus... I have made lists for this, but honestly haven't played it yet.

 

 

Speaking beyond point costs, I am curious ( be honest) if in the post CA universe, will you play you AdMech any differently.

 

...

I’m giving greater consider to dropping Destroyers entirely ( I think after this CA they might be dead to me competitively) 

 

...

 

How comes, I thought they got a reduction?

 

 

They got a 5 point reduction. I just don't get along with these guys in 8th. I've never been a huge fan of them but in 8th with multi damage stuff, and their poor BS I find I can beat their effectiveness with other stuff. They're a unit I always want to use but every time I do, I usually just reinforce my dislike of them. They are a 'fun' unit to me, so I do include them, but if I were using them competitively I'd always just defer the points into Kastelans.

 

Personally I don't like Grav (nor the costs of it) in 8th, and these guys have a poor BS, but access to Plasma which really needs to overcharge imo. So I only entertain using them with an aura, especially Cawl.

 

In general the savings they have now doesn't seem to make them easier to include in my lists.... I play them at 210 points. I despise 'random' shot rules. Also even with Cawl it's too easy to get unlucky and in 8th they flat out die from an overheat. Ouch.

 

Two turns of rolling a '1' for shot totals, and you have 210 point duds. For 10 points more it makes far more sense (to me) to include double the wounds, 9 shots per dude (even if weaker) with the chance of firing everything twice and being a lot more resilient.

 

Call me crazy but I think the points on Destroyers is still waaaay off. Not only that but the other load outs seem really wonky.

[synthaside]

Seems I Took far too long to write this out / get distracted by actual work  that greyfax got brought up already .

I too have been looking for a new way to play my Admech, after my admittedly salty buddies who run quite elite heavy combat armies, (space wolves and blood angels). Accused my Mech of just bringing Cawl tau gunline army.  So last week in a rematch against the space wolves, player, I decided to change my spots and run a white Tides list, dumping Cawl and mars for Metallica (I’m painted that way). Initially, it was stubbornness to prove that I could play without double Canticle and re-rolls but the more I dug into it the more sense it made.

Enter my silly tactic the Inquisitional Walls of Jericho.

Summary

A wall of a virtually moral immune vanguard, stretching along the front lines of your army that advances and takes ground/objectives. Designed to  screen charges or intercept approaching transports so they can’t disembark. The key to this is to survive long enough to be re-enforced by other units.

Detailed idea

For this to work I need to solve two key weakness within our forces, we suffer when we take too big units due to our generally crap moral and unless we use specialized units have relatively low combat potential.  While I adore the -1 toughness auras against marines, sadly vanguard suck at capitalizing on it so we need to use either electro priests or Sicaran’s to actually hurt them. My preferences are Taser Sicarians and Dragoons purely because they are what I own 

Secondly, I don’t want to take Imperial Guard or space marines and I don’t want to run an Imperial Soup list, I play Adeptus Mechanicus, I want 90% of my units to be Skitari or Mechanicum at least to be a plausible force.

To solve this conundrum I’ve been experimenting with “Techno heresy * Cough* “, Sorry * cough* Inquisitional allies in a supreme command detachment.  Specifically, Greyfax and two additional inquisitors.  (Borrowing two of my other half’s, very nicely painted sisters models to make fine Inquisitors. ) These ladies have relatively low Strength unless you pay for better weapons; you can either run them cheap and cheerful or pay for power mauls to provide some Percussive maintenance.  Either way, they boost the vanguard in combat enormously with the toughness debuff even more so with a combat boosting canticle like +1 strength, but more importantly they let large blobs of vanguard hold the line, due to either auto passing or the inquisitor’s leadership aura.   “All Friendly IMPERIUM units within 6" of an Inquisitor can use the Inquisitor's Leadership characteristic instead of their own. “

Greyfax has LD10, the other two have  LD9,  that gives the unit some serious staying power to offset the danger of running large units.  Now suddenly even more viable with our new reduced per model costs.  Typically enough to lock the combat in place for me to respond with a rescue chicken or an Infiltrator deep strike.


This is before you consider the benefit from suddenly having 3 affordable Psykers, Greyfax denies at +1 Twice.  You also get access to 3 powers from the inquisition, and while dominate is Hilarious its  Terrify and mental fortitude you are after. It means you can pre-prepare for holding the line pre-combat ,  All you need is 1 vanguard from the 10 to live in the unit to keep that debuff active letting the inquisitors heroic intervene in  and smash back, better still in your next turn you counter charge with your specialist units, such as infiltrators which can deep strike in.

Secondly, even marines struggle when you stack, Terrify, “.  Deafening Assault ( Metallica), and Infiltrators  giving your opponent -3  leadership  kill a couple of marines in combat which is very doable with power swords, mauls or goads  and that re-roll leadership suddenly isn’t looking too hot, leadership 8 means lost marines on a >3  and that re-roll could be higher when they do .

You won’t kill them all, but the goal is to tarpit them just long enough to bring you flanks in to bear.

Edited November 30, 2017 by synthaside

[Vel'Cona]

Sounds rad, synthaside!  Let us know how that works out  :)

[LegioX]

Well, I have a reason to paint Greyfax now! I was actually thinking about the Acolytes. 3 of them with greyfax for +1 CP and cheap tax? Sounds good? The patrol detachment is genius also - 5 rangers without ad mech buffs is not a bad tax to cover up a glaring weakness in the list. 

[Heliomanes]

Honestly Chapter Approved didn't change much for us. Neat with a few points here and there, but that doesn't really impact army building much. Maybe some allies got more or less interesting, but I'm not a fan of the "Imperial soup" style of play so I try to avoid it. So I guess we're back to where we seemed to be before - experimenting with different ideas to get away from the Cawl wall and including some mobility and flexibility to our lists and playstyle. I'm keen to see what people come up with. I'm going ostrich heavy. Sound the claxons and gather the skitarii rider clans.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Honestly Chapter Approved didn't change much for us. Neat with a few points here and there, but that doesn't really impact army building much. Maybe some allies got more or less interesting, but I'm not a fan of the "Imperial soup" style of play so I try to avoid it. So I guess we're back to where we seemed to be before - experimenting with different ideas to get away from the Cawl wall and including some mobility and flexibility to our lists and playstyle. I'm keen to see what people come up with. I'm going ostrich heavy. Sound the claxons and gather the skitarii rider clans.

 

Pretty much what I think as well.

 

As a beer and pretzl gamer my Ad Mech is pretty "feared" in our gaming group, but I can see the issues Ad Mech has at tournament level, and CA does not help with any of these issues.

 

However, freeing up points makes Ad Mech more competative on the table.

The biggeste winners imho are Mars and Graia: Mars because Carl got cheaper as well as Taser Infiltrators that work so very well with Wrath of Mars. Graia because Skitarii got cheaper, close to being "spamable", and I think for mass Skitarii Graia is the way to go. Fulgurites, which work great with Graia as well, got cheaper, too.

Breachers do also look good, being T5, W3 and a TEQ save in cover... that is 9 hard to kill wounds for just 120 points that wield some quite good weapons !

 

Since I am lazy I am realy looking forward for Battle Scribe to update the point costs accordingly, until then I wont shuffle around my armys on paper

Hope I get a little more toys into my lists then.

Edited November 28, 2017 by DeStinyFiSh

[Yoda79]

Tbh after the point reduction even not much changed I'm willing to test some battalions. I was looking for pure mech solutions and even though won't be a guard 5+/5+ cp regain I can imagine some appeal.

 

A dominus and an enginseer for stygies or even Agripinaa for a 1*3-6 breachers 1*10 vanguard and 1*5-10 arc plasma. With 1 cp when you turn end to give screener breachers +1 save +1 attack vanguard with taser for counter and -1 tough. And ofc rangers for dakka. Any combination for the above also works with snipers etc. Breachers seems ok for me and a good option atm for a beef frontal unit healable. When I can't have my ironstriders near. Can move shoot can take relics can obj secure effectively can be infiltrated as screener or deep line camper etc. There are a lot of if s. If you don't want an Onagers if you don't play the classik dakka wall etc.

 

Somewhat I see breachers in front of my army in groups or units pushing with vang behind them. Full breachers stygies for that -1 maybe some vanguard's graia or somewhere between those lines.

 

Knights meh. Unless you design a list for knights! You spend cp only on them and barelly makes them better since the invu save only counts phase time. Canticles not good etc. Healing mediocre? But two knights healing cps on them can make it happen. And I d surelly consider Dragoons with them and counter units.

[Charlo]

So in a twist of fate, are Breachers with Arc and the added durability the new Hotness compared to Plasma & Grav Destroyers that are maybe just a touch too fragile?

[DanPesci]

Id been toying with the idea of using stygies infiltrate strategem to drop both a 3-4 unit of CC kastellans along with 4-5 grav/flamer destroyers.

 

Ive not had huge luck with destroyers this edition (seems a running theme here!), but actually getting them in range with their flamers for once might actually yield slightly better results...especially if they can burn cheap infantry bubble wraps etc to open up other targets for backfield units.

 

Realise priests would probably do the same job better but really don't like the models and trying to use what i already have (which is 6 breacher/destroyer models!)

 

Good to see breachers come down too, but im still not convinced with the heavy arc rifles 2 shots at 4s to hit...although now theyre cheaper, could be good as long as near a dominus for rerolls

[RealMirage]

So in a twist of fate, are Breachers with Arc and the added durability the new Hotness compared to Plasma & Grav Destroyers that are maybe just a touch too fragile?

Arc weaponry is just... not good. At all. Strength six but ment to attack vehicles (meaning against most it wounds on a 5+) and limited to two shots.

 

If it had a special rule where it always wounded vehicles on a 2+ or 3+ then it would be worth it. Or if there was some Ryza esque strategem that helped Arc weaponry, maybe it be worth it then.

Edited November 30, 2017 by RealMirage

[Prot]

So in a twist of fate, are Breachers with Arc and the added durability the new Hotness compared to Plasma & Grav Destroyers that are maybe just a touch too fragile?

Well I’m trying breachers tomorrow but with different weaponry.

 

Even though we know the cost changes I’m trying something out here. I’m going to play a list with Cawl ( haven’t used him post 7th ed). And I’m playing old / current points. Then replay the list with changes based on cost savings. That means a lot of the list I’m using tomorrow is getting a discount.

 

@Synthaside, Great idea with Metallica. I’d probably try something similar. Nice idea with the Inquisition too.

[Charlo]

 

So in a twist of fate, are Breachers with Arc and the added durability the new Hotness compared to Plasma & Grav Destroyers that are maybe just a touch too fragile?

Well I’m trying breachers tomorrow but with different weaponry.

 

Even though we know the cost changes I’m trying something out here. I’m going to play a list with Cawl ( haven’t used him post 7th ed). And I’m playing old / current points. Then replay the list with changes based on cost savings. That means a lot of the list I’m using tomorrow is getting a discount.

 

@Synthaside, Great idea with Metallica. I’d probably try something similar. Nice idea with the Inquisition too.

 

 

So you going for Torsion cannons? Interesting... I guess maximizing from Re-rolls you get a load of short ranged almost Lascannons.

[DanPesci]

 

So in a twist of fate, are Breachers with Arc and the added durability the new Hotness compared to Plasma & Grav Destroyers that are maybe just a touch too fragile?

Arc weaponry is just... not good. At all. Strength six but ment to attack vehicles (meaning against most it wounds on a 5+) and limited to two shots.

 

If it had a special rule where it always wounded vehicles on a 2+ or 3+ then it would be worth it. Or if there was some Ryza esque strategem that helped Arc weaponry, maybe it be worth it then.

 

 

This was my issuue with heavy arc rifles too...but i think this is more because i still think of them as the awesome haywire weapons they used to be..and so WANT them to be awesome against heavy armour.....

 

However, i think what we should maybe be thinking about instead, is leave the heavy vehicle hunting to others (neutron onager says hello)...and instead see the breachers more as anti-elite/heavy infantry

 

Against terminators/bikes etc...they are going to do some nice damage if you can buff their 4+ to hit with a priest etc, and then they are there to maybe finish off light vehicles/take that last wound off the vehicle your onager didnt quite finish off.

 

Thinking (if i decide not to do my 'destroyer bomb' i mentioned above) a unit of 5 simply to sit in cover camping a home objective near my techpriest and onagers. Should be decent at helping to hold the line

[synthaside]

@ Prot, Let me know how the breachers with torsion cannons get on,  I have 6 which sit pretty much unloved on my shelf or can only come out to play as proxy Arcs

I assume you're going to babysit them with some kind of re-roll because 4 shots hitting on 4's  for the points is still pretty shaky , good if they hit though ,
what are the new calculated points cost  of this unit  now  60 points a model ? 

I also wish the stratagem worked with All kataphrons  ... not just damn destroyers.

I  also really think torsion cannons either need to go down in cost or get a buff in shots right now ,  2 or d3 shots ,  make them work a lot better at BS4+


 

Edited November 30, 2017 by synthaside

[Prot]

 

 

So in a twist of fate, are Breachers with Arc and the added durability the new Hotness compared to Plasma & Grav Destroyers that are maybe just a touch too fragile?

Well I’m trying breachers tomorrow but with different weaponry.

 

Even though we know the cost changes I’m trying something out here. I’m going to play a list with Cawl ( haven’t used him post 7th ed). And I’m playing old / current points. Then replay the list with changes based on cost savings. That means a lot of the list I’m using tomorrow is getting a discount.

 

@Synthaside, Great idea with Metallica. I’d probably try something similar. Nice idea with the Inquisition too.

 

 

So you going for Torsion cannons? Interesting... I guess maximizing from Re-rolls you get a load of short ranged almost Lascannons.

 

 

 

@ Prot, Let me know how the breachers with torsion cannons get on,  I have 6 which sit pretty much unloved on my shelf or can only come out to play as proxy Arcs

 

I assume you're going to babysit them with some kind of re-roll because 4 shots hitting on 4's  for the points is still pretty shaky , good if they hit though ,

what are the new calculated points cost  of this unit  now  60 points a model ? 

 

I also wish the stratagem worked with All kataphrons  ... not just damn destroyers.

 

I  also really think torsion cannons either need to go down in cost or get a buff in shots right now ,  2 or d3 shots ,  make them work a lot better at BS4+

 

 

 

 

Agreed on all counts.

 

Since I'm using Cawl here, I figure I might as well see how I can leverage discounted units I normally never use.

 

In many games, especially against something like Astra, or really any High T based army, I find I'm relying WAY too much on Onager Dunecrawlers or lucky mortal wounds. I can't do this with any sense of reliability so a S8 weapon that is well suited to vehicles might be an option with Cawl because as you guys say... it's only one shot each. The claw weapon isn't going to be a game changer, but as a personal body guard, roaming the field with a cluster of Priests, I'm willing to try to get in there to keep the medium range stuff more effective. Dragoons have been my goto for flanking assault to help this kind of playstyle out. Not great, but could be worse. :)

[synthaside]

you know .... the more I think about it  I might try them myself ... they need to be babysat by cawl or a TPD  I too struggle to kill all my opponents transports ...  and on average the Arc rifles barely scratch the marines because of the crap AP , at least if you hit with the torsion cannon that models going to take damage 

In other news, my better half has just informed me that my female Tech-priest dominus model has finally arrived from the Ukraine, i think she's going to be a proxy engineseer 

[Yoda79]

3 neutronagers are superb for antitank.

 

I find my self using an outrider stygies so I also use 2*1 lasc balistarii. And conclude my atnitank fine.

 

Now I v started using breachers not for their gun vs anti vehicle but as tough troop unit. Screener obj secure camper. Can shoot can cc and will kill ND win vs almost all enemy troops. I use one group for that exact purpose. Vs enemy troop obj campers and I can infiltrate if I don't need screener in a game. I use also defnce gem for relic mission etc. Or when. I face hard cc charges.

 

Ranger snipers snipers with omnispex

1*10 vanguard with arc rifles and arc pistol tether.

 

I consider destroyers to be used only as moving gun platforms with a dominus or Cawl if you do t p!ay robots . You can take 2 cc Robots Cawl and tons of destroyers with flamers grav and roam the board for anti horde.maybe min max with breachers for some durability. Beyond Cawl robot tactic ofc.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Ranger snipers snipers with omnispex

1*10 vanguard with arc rifles and arc pistol tether.

 

 

Why the pistol?