Primaris Army - Viable?

[SyNidus]

So with the upcoming CA changes and some across the board slashes to price, what are everyone's thoughts on running a full/primarily Primaris army?

I know it won't be winning any GTs any time soon, but at least an army that could put up a fight. What do you guys think?

[Frater Cornelius]

I wanted to make a thread discussing this very issue fairly soon. Primarily Primaris means Primaris + Vehicles and Scouts to me. Does that qualify? If so, I will leave my findings here instead.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[SyNidus]

I wouldn't place limitations on which units to use, rather where the primaris is the significant majority in the army and they play a significant role.

[Galron]

Exactly. They aren't bad. Fill some nice gaps. I am about 50/50 when it comes to infantry in my current marine list. I use small tactical squads in drop pods(yes I use 2 drop pods) to land with double special weapons a pair of minimum scouts and an intercessor squad for troops to get me to brigade level. Then I think aside from terminators and vets, the rest of my force is Inceptors and reivers. My Red Scorp army also fields a large number of primaris and double repulsers. I don't know if I would say a full army is viable but as a 50/50 ish force it is somewhat competitive. My Inceptors with the price change are now great for sudden heavy dakka where I need it and even the plasma versions are now useful and you will see them on the field more often. I think they are the real gem of the CA, bringing a hyper expensive unit down to only slightly more than what the bolt version was before. You still need something for hand to hand and their transport options kind of suck thus you really need to field a combined army in order to cover the bases. Now if only our stratagems didn't suck so bad. On the bright side, Intercessor horde is even more of a thing lol.

[Ishagu]

I think they are now, yes.

The infantry is point efficient enough to function as Ultras with Guilliman, Infiltrating Raven Guard, or a more numerous Salamanders force.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, Intercessors are even better now. I think at least 10 in every list. I think 15 is also ok, maybe making use of weapon variations? 5 Assault guys and 10 RF guys. There is really not much else to say other than to take them.

Scouts are the perfect supplement here. They deny deep strike locations, secure objectives, bring HBs and MLs for the Stratagems and are a cheap way to fill the Troops slot.

Basically, nothing really changes in the Troops slot. For me at least.

 

The Heavy Support slot will experience some though. I am thinking about moving away from the Assault Hellblasters, as they get a price hike of 1ppm and S8 becoming more and more important with the rise of Carnifexes, Dread lists and the freshly returned Flybrarian Dreadnought Oo This is also relevant to those not running Guilliman, as wounding on a 3+ against T7 and 2+ against T4 is very important. Hellblasters will stay a staple, in one form or another.

Another unit I can recommend is the Thunderfire Cannon. This is a new addition. I know that someone, at the very least ishagu, would want to kill me now, but hear me out. Genestealers, Khorne Berserkers, BA assaulty stuff and other mobile elements are very common. The Stratagem the TFC can use is downright amazing. Zerkers stuck more than 9" away from you can not make the charge anymore, same goes for Jump units more than 12" away. Consider this, if you are running shooty lists. 121pts to keep melee units out of the game until you are ready to deal with them is priceless.

 

The FA and Elite slot will probably have the biggest changes in my setups, as Aggressors and Inceptors are cheap enough to be at least considered. I think the SM backfield harrassment has reached a critical mass and is now a viable playstyle. Inceptors supported by Reivers and infiltrated Scouts can really put the pressure on a flank, while the TFC can keep away high treat units from there. Depending on list, it is not unlikely that I will include one Inceptor unit with Bolters though, as they seem pretty good on paper now.

Another fun thing is something a brother in the BA section mentioned. Give Reiver both hooks and shutes. Most shooty units are on higher floors anyway. You measure the 9" from the model, but the charge will be shorter due to them ignoring vertical distance. Pretty boos for harrassing and a real case for melee Reivers.

Personally, I am still not sure how to use Aggressors. They can't just slog across, but my Repulsor is already taken by Hellblasters. Maybe there is a case for a second Repulsor? In pure Primaris this may be even be a good idea. Slap Quad LCs on there and reduce all else to a minimum, which results in a 320pts tank. But even without it, it seems reasonable to take Aggressors on foot and hide them well or pressure with other units in the back to take the heat off them.

 

The Redemptor is still garbage though and an inferior anti-tank platform to the Venerable, unfortunately.

 

Overall, I think the point drops make pure Primaris more viable and open completely new dimensions for primarily Primaris lists. I will need to overhaul my Primaris lists after this, so much is certain.

[deathspectersgt7]

I go 50/50 .  They just made Primaris cheaper that is all . I have more luck with an even force. Tacs in Rhino with Intercessors sniping and moving.

[TrexPushups]

The points drop is giving me 79 extra points.

 

Enough to convert one of my 2 attack bikes into 5 scout bikers with twin bolters and shotguns.

 

That is 30 shots at 12 inches up from 7! It also gives me a stronger mobility element to help support my now cheaper inceptors.

 

I’m looking forward to this change.

[Cap'm Heckus]

I just started a DIY Primaris army as part of a “Tale of # Gamers” thing at my FLGS. 25 Power each month. Doing well so far in 3 on 3 games (2 wins and tie) but my main contribution was been “survivable objective holder” (MVP for points in non kill point games).

 

These are Open games using the Open War deck and battle forged is optional. As of this week i’ve gotten painted my first 50 Power:

 

Primaris Librarian

5 intercessors

5 reivers

5 hellblasters

 

Primaris Lt.

3 inceptors

Redemptor (was previously venerable las-dread, swapped him because the Redemptor looked so much cooler painted).

 

Like, I said, they’re doing ok in the small open games but as we get bigger I’m gonna need to work in some more punchy units as there’s at least one chaos/IW contemptor and one of those new DG tanks in the mix of players.

 

Thinking sniper scouts with a missile launcher and Stormtalon in the next batch.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Cap'm Heckus

[Hopper21]

Im running a Primaris Heavy ish list for London Grand Tournament. It wont win but its fun!

 

HQ

Tigarius

Chronus

 

Troops

10 intercessors assault bolters

5 man tac squad, lascannon

5 man tac squad, heavy bolter

 

Elites

5 man reivers, grapnel launchers, carbines

5 man reivers, grapnel launchers, carbines

 

Transport

Razorback, twin Lascannons

Razorback, twin Lascannons

Repulsor, heavy bolters, las talon

 

Flyer

Fire Raptor

 

LoW

GMAN

 

Still got to play test it running up to event.

 

I am a bit worried about anti tank tho.....

[Stoic Raptor]

I was not even considering using Inceptors in my Primaris force, until I heard of the reduction in cost.  I might not sell them after all.

 

Reivers are great, Intercessors are great, Hellblasters are undeniably great and personally I like my Boltagressors.  But I haven't finished my army and it remains to be seen how effective an all-Primaris army will be for me personally.

[breng77]

I think the major flaw in all primaris is the HQ section, I think most armies involving them run better with non-primaris HQ selections.  If you are doing Ravenguard, it saves you CP to put your captain (for re-rolls) in a jump pack and have him deepstrike near your lines, rather than paying CP to infiltrate an additional model.  The same is true if you want re-rolls with your inceptor squads when they deepstrike.  If you are walking then these characters are cheaper.  You could also do similar with a terminator captain, Jump pack Lieutenant etc.

[GreyCrow]

Based on what I see, I would tend to say it is.

 

Main issue would be dealing with vehicles, but vehicules costing so much now, they'd be face with a much smaller model count which you can deal against with board control and focus fire.

[Frater Cornelius]

Based on what I see, I would tend to say it is.

 

Main issue would be dealing with vehicles, but vehicules costing so much now, they'd be face with a much smaller model count which you can deal against with board control and focus fire.

 

Plasma had reached a critical mass now with Inceptors being cheaper. This, and the Repulsor, and it may just be enough.

[LucidNinja]

So I have committed to a pure primaris army in a local slow grow. The only non primaris I'm planning on using is a techmarine or 2, both are going to be converted so they look the part.

So far my 500 point list is.

 

Hq

Captain MC auto bolter, power sword

 

Troops

8 man intercessor squad, bolt rifles, grenade launcher

 

5 man intercessor squad, bolt rifles, grenade launcher

 

Heavy support

5 man hellblasters, plasma incinerators

 

We all are starting with a patrol detachment and escalating 250 points a month.

Having played 2 games with them I'm 1W 1L, this is a casual slow grow and really just a great reason to get stuff painted haha.

 

For 750 I'm adding a techmarine and redemptor, then for 1000 adding a 5 man intercessor squad with stalkers, a riever squad with carbines and chutes, and a couple more hellblasters.

From there I'll be adding to what is needed.

[Kisada]

Which chapter are you using Lucid?

[LucidNinja]

Celestial lions (imperial fists CT)

[Silas7]

Celestial lions (imperial fists CT)

 

Does having no CC dedicated units worry you? I'm trying to decide how to build my reivers, on one hand I love pistol+blade for more CC and looks, on the other hand, bolt carbines look great on the models too. I plan on using BA codex.

[Kisada]

BA codex I would go with CC Reivers because of the +1 to wound on the charge. 

[Blindhamster]

Here's hoping for a more serious melee unit down the line.

 

Also really want primaris veterans (specifically ones that can take hits for characters like regular company vets)

[Frater Cornelius]

Here's hoping for a more serious melee unit down the line.

 

Also really want primaris veterans (specifically ones that can take hits for characters like regular company vets)

 

I'd like Primaris TDA. I know, that we Aggressors, but I am referring to a true hybrid deep striking unit with 2+ and an invulnerable save.

[LucidNinja]

There is concern for CC however primaris aren't terrible against anything not focused on CC. I'm running a shooty army so the plan is to shoot

[Blindhamster]

the other thing primaris need, is a true anti tank squad.

 

They have:

 

Objective Capturers - Intercessors

Horde Breakers - Aggressors (shooting)/Reivers (melee)

Heavy Infantry Killers - Plasma Inceptors / Hellblasters

Harassment - Bolter Inceptors /  Reivers

Redemptor Can be another Heavy Infantry killer, lacks the damage from its gun to really go after vehicles, or it can be another horde killer.

Repulsor Is Anti Tank or Anti Horde or somewhere inbetween.

 

Ideally Primaris need:

A Heavy Melee Unit - by this, I mean a unit that is able to do a lot of damage thanks to power weapons of some kind, without being so slow or numerically disadvantaged like Aggressors

Tank Hunters - some kind of true Anti Tank unit, ideally equipped with lascannons or something similar

Fast unit - either something like jetbikes (would be a small unit in that instance) or assault squads (larger unit, probably equipped with mkx tacticus armour and some modern style jump pack, less hardy (toughness 4) but able to do melee or shooting, if melee, it could be a two birds with one stone job covering fast and heavy melee.

 

Durable unit - something with durability like SS Terminators - good invulnerable and good base save. The Anvil to the Heavy Melee Units hammer.

 

bodyguard unit - something to help keep primaris characters alive in melee, something like the standard company vets.

Cheaper Transport - a true dedicated transport, one that isn't so crazy expensive but doesnt do much beyond transporting stuff!
 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Stoic Raptor]

When Primaris finally gets all that, count on your mini-Marines being removed from the game (or at least relegated to obsolescence).

[Blindhamster]

When Primaris finally gets all that, count on your mini-Marines being removed from the game (or at least relegated to obsolescence).

 

Well, yeah.

I think thats the point, we just watch for the signs, if these things start appearing, we know it'll happen, if they don't? it suggests existing marines are 100% here to stay.

 

I think we'll see a cheaper transport and some form of veteran unit for them at some point. But the rest may never happen.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Blindhamster