Primaris Army - Viable?

[Kisada]

Guaranteed Primaris are going to get more goodies ... the real question is will they go the difficult route of making them competitive and unique without making old marines useless ... or will they simply start making primaris units that overlap and overshadow old marines to phase them out.

[Blindhamster]

Guaranteed primaris will be limited in terms of options. So versatility will always be something existing marines have going for them.

[Mileposter]

It does appear to be set that Primaris are specialized units while versatility is (and has always been) the calling card of standard Space Marines. If the Primaris models are fleshed out a little more with this in mind (one to two units and a vehicle, really) then you could viably have a faction that could be played either all Primaris or sans Primaris evenly well based on preference. Not unlike the way Eldar can play all bikes, or no bikes, or all wraiths, or no wraiths. A unit type that brings its own playstyle.

 

Only time can tell the truth, however, and the Primaris are at a tipping point. I'm interested to see the direction it goes.

[Kisada]

I know that a lot of players were bothered by the fluff regarding how the primaris were created ... I'm more bothered by the fluff reason why a primaris sarge can't use more weapon types besides a power sword ... why a reiver sarge can't use better CCWs ... How are they going to continue to explain this lack of versatility?

[Stoic Raptor]

Training, most likely.  And standardization of equipment for logistical reasons.  An armory that only has a few types of weapons is easier to maintain or obtain replacement parts and equipment. 

 

Also, doctrine must be an important consideration.  Rather than accounting for the multitude of various ways a given squad might be used (depending on its loadout), it's easy to determine the preferred usage of a squad based on its type and choice of equipment.  

 

Primaris clearly weren't engineered to be versatile, they were developed to perform specific roles on the battlefield.

[Mileposter]

Fluff wise? There's a bazillion ways to explain it. That's all their assigned. They're ordered to use select equipment. They are trained to fight with certain weapons. They don't like it. Guilliman said so. The Inquisition frowns upon such cross-breeding. Your sword is too small. Techpriests just can't understand the proportions because an STC didn't tell them to. The Machine God stutters on the word 'Primaris' everytime, so the process is slower than ever.

Some of these ideas are dumb. But possible.

 

Game mechanics wise? Harder bullet to bite. The tell is going to be Blood Angels. Look to that Codex and see if they release with Primaris datasheets. If they don't, it will be telling a lot. If they do, look to see if they have Blood Angels flavored weapons options. That will tell a lot. This revelation will change a huge amount of our understanding about how the Primaris are being taken and integrated into Chapters, and will give very large hints as to how Primaris-only organization/mentality might be giong forward.

 

Devil is in the Details.

[Blindhamster]

Primaris weapon options are the same for BA as codex, except intercessor sergeants which have chainswords but no power sword option.

 

This is purely down to available parts though, nothing else.

[Kisada]

Those reasons are horrible.

 

The captain, LT, and intercessor sarge can use a power sword but a intercessor or reiver or reiver sarge can't?

A Blood Angel sarge can't use a power sword but can use a chain sword?

 

"They don't like it"?  seriously ...

 

Guilliman said so .... come on

 

Your sword is too small for the reiver sarge but just fine for the intercessor sarge?

 

They were able to make legions of MK X armor and new dreads, and new tanks, and new bolt rifles, and new plasma rifles, and jump packs, and grapnel launchers, and gravis armor ... but they couldn't make power swords for anyone other than intercessor sarge, LT, and Capt? .... unless your a BA sarge ... then too bad for you

 

To be more specific I guess I'm wondering what reasonable/good reason they could come up with to continue to justify the lack of versatility.

[Blindhamster]

There literally is no good in lore reason.

 

It's purely down to what's on the sprues - the models dictate the rules with newer stuff.

[Kisada]

There literally is no good in lore reason.

 

It's purely down to what's on the sprues - the models dictate the rules with newer stuff.

Will this be the era of upgrade sprues for options?

[Mileposter]

Those reasons are horrible.

Didn't say they were good. Just that they could come up with them, and to add a little humor to the thread. Blame Cawl. That's popular, these days.

 

 

 

There literally is no good in lore reason.

 

It's purely down to what's on the sprues - the models dictate the rules with newer stuff.

Will this be the era of upgrade sprues for options?

 

Likely going to depend entirely on what we see inside the Blood Angels Codex.

[Blindhamster]

I dunno if it'll be as good as that, I think you'll generally get what is in the kit as options and nothing else.

 

Intercessors are the exception, all codex marines get power swords, this is because there is the 30th anniversary sergeant that has a sheathed one. And the ultramarine sprue has a drawn one. Dark angels get power sword because their sprue has one. Blood Angels get chainsword because their sprue has a 100% generic one that any primaris could use. Presumably wolves will come with a chainsword and deathwatch sprue will have both.

 

I've actually made a few comments saying all marines should get the power sword option because of the anniversary model (which was marketed for everyone), and that regular marines should get chainswords because the blood angel one doesn't have a single blood angel detail on it.

 

I'd love to see weapon options open up a bit more for characters in primaris lists. But don't think it'll happen soon.

 

P.s. already said what the options are for BA.

 

Dark angel lieutenants will get plasma pistols by the look of it too.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Mileposter]

P.s. already said what the options are for BA.

Missed that post! I had thought for some reason that the Primaris datasheets in the BA Codex were still unknown.

[Blindhamster]

sadly not, they match the marine ones with the soul exception of the intercessors.

Hopefully more options will become available in the future. I do think its a shame theres nothing "interesting" to make each chapters primaris distinct, but hopefully given a year or two, that'll change

[Aothaine]

Just want to point out here that Blood Angel Intecessors are really good. Dark Angel Helblasters are a squad of 10, re-roll 1s if stationary, have weapons from the dark age 1cp to make their over-charged plasma do 3 damage each. 

 

Primaris are awesome! ^_^

[Ishagu]

I think new Primaris stuff is on the way sooner rather than later.

 

The 3 main stay Primaris units are all excellent. Intercessors, Inceptors, Hellblasters.

 

Rievers and Agressors are better as part of a Blood Angel force. Reivers especially.

[WAR]

 

Ideally Primaris need:

1-Tank Hunters - some kind of true Anti Tank unit, ideally equipped with lascannons or something similar

 

2-Fast unit - either something like jetbikes (would be a small unit in that instance) or assault squads (larger unit, probably equipped with mkx tacticus armour and some modern style jump pack, less hardy (toughness 4) but able to do melee or shooting, if melee, it could be a two birds with one stone job covering fast and heavy melee.

 

3-Cheaper Transport - a true dedicated transport, one that isn't so crazy expensive but doesnt do much beyond transporting stuff!

 

 

1- I was talking with a friend and we agreed they needed a Las-Talon portable weapon and maybe autocannons (it would be nice to have)

 

2- I like that idea but I would give them a heavy chain sword and Assault bolter or heavy bolt pistols and leave them as inceptors. 

 

3-  A turret less Repulsor would be nice. 

[Kisada]

I think new Primaris stuff is on the way sooner rather than later.

 

The 3 main stay Primaris units are all excellent. Intercessors, Inceptors, Hellblasters.

 

Rievers and Agressors are better as part of a Blood Angel force. Reivers especially.

 

BA Reivers make my BT Reivers soooooo jealous ... and they're not even that great! lol ... imagine BA reivers with CCWs that have some AP

[Blindhamster]

I do feel reivers were messed up, they ought to have had -1 AP blades as even in dark imperium they're described as sparking power blades

[Kisada]

I do feel reivers were messed up, they ought to have had -1 AP blades as even in dark imperium they're described as sparking power blades

 

What?!  Ok now I'm even more annoyed ... someone said reiver sarge wouldn't want to use something heavy and clunky like a power fist or thunder hammer because they're meant to be quick and stealthy shock troops ... ok ... what about melta bombs?  Stealthy shock troops getting in behind enemy lines and planting melta bombs on vehicles and having them explode right as they start to cut up the troops ... come on!  That would be great fluff and rules!

[GreyCrow]

@Cornelius : Yeah indeed, but we're still talking about D2. Its no melta.

[Cap'm Heckus]

Yeah. I started my Primaris army as IF but I’m switching to BA with the new Codex. Especially now that they can take Stormtalons, my one concession.

[Blindhamster]

I know most people not in the BA forum wouldn't care, but I've a post on warhammer 40k facebook where I've put forward why BA should get access to power swords, the arguement mostly sits with the fact GW advertised the 30 year anniversary space marine as usable by all marines, but actually it isn't a legal model currently. They also highlighted in twitch that rules were there for all current models that can be built. Both the above statements are inaccurate as it stands.

I'd appreciate the support with likes/comments if possible.

I did also mention that I thought it would be easiest just to give both power sword and chainsword options to all marines - as the BA chainsword is 100% generic and codex marines should have the option too.

 

http://By the way, for those interested, this is the facebook post I mentioned where I've put forward why BA should get power swords (I've framed the argument around an existing model that was advertised as usable by us and currently isn't legal) https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1933494253637871&id=1575682476085719&comment_id=1933646593622637&reply_comment_id=1935251656795464

[Silas7]

 

Fast unit - either something like jetbikes (would be a small unit in that instance) or assault squads (larger unit, probably equipped with mkx tacticus armour and some modern style jump pack, less hardy (toughness 4) but able to do melee or shooting, if melee, it could be a two birds with one stone job covering fast and heavy melee.

Cheaper Transport - a true dedicated transport, one that isn't so crazy expensive but doesnt do much beyond transporting stuff!

 

 

I'd be interested to see a primaris capable land speeder storm that combines the two roles Blindhamster lists above with a carry capacity of 5 max.

[Frater Cornelius]

@Cornelius : Yeah indeed, but we're still talking about D2. Its no melta.

But they can be taken en mass. Meltas can not. Not at a reasonable price, anyway. The great thing about Plasmas is their versatility. By the time a bunch of Meltas reach the enemy tank, Plasmas will have fired a few times already.