Daemons in 30k for a Newbie

[Goodwin]

Hey hey,

 

Been looking at getting into the Heresy with a daemon army. Friend let me know you can now use them as an army as well. I’m admittedly more interested in a Legion but I’ll take what I can get for now.

 

With that said, I haven’t found any threads about them in 30k. Are people not interested in running them or is there not much to em?

 

Was hoping for some advice or thoughts on running Nurgle Daemons. I’m likely to order that beauty Cor’braxx Utterblight!

 

Given the size of HH armies I’m certainly going to need more but I’d like an idea where to steer. I can also branch into a more mixed list due to my hoarding tendencies.

 

Any thoughts or ideas on what a newbie to HH Daemons should look towards?

 

Hope to hear from ya!

[Riptor]

I would assume you haven't seen much discussion about them because they are not a whole lot different form their 7th edition 40k counterparts. So, if you are familiar with them from there then you will probably find it easy to port them over to 30k.

 

A few things to keep in mind though.

 

There are very few psykers in 30k, so playing some Psychic monsters (Daemon Princes, GUO etc) will let you dominate that phase.

 

You will be playing against a lot of marines (though depending on your meta, 7th ed 40k was like that too) so it is worth tooling your army towards that.

 

If you want a legion to play alongside them, and are not opposed to Word Bearers, then they can ally with daemons with a certain Rite of War. Gab a copy of Calth and you will have a reasonably sizable force between the two.

[Goodwin]

Great great, much appreciated!

 

I’ve started a small amount of HH stuff for Iron Warriors but I’ll defintely look at Word Bearers, especially if that makes more sense to hang out with Daemons.

 

The idea of having a strong psychic phase is quite interesting as well.

 

I’ll have to take the next step and actually get the book so I can get a start on army lists and the like.

 

Thanks for the response!

[Lord Marshal]

Also worth keeping in mind that the next book, Angelus, is set to cover Daemons in more dedicated detail.

 

In addition to the Word Bearers, you can also ally Daemons with Imperialis Militia who take the Warp Cult Provenance.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Lord Marshal

[Riptor]

Great great, much appreciated!

 

I’ve started a small amount of HH stuff for Iron Warriors but I’ll defintely look at Word Bearers, especially if that makes more sense to hang out with Daemons.

 

The idea of having a strong psychic phase is quite interesting as well.

 

I’ll have to take the next step and actually get the book so I can get a start on army lists and the like.

 

Thanks for the response!

Of course, do not feel that you have to play Word Bearers because you like Daemons, better to build up your Iron Warriors bit by bit and play smaller games if they are the legion you like.

 

Do you have a Daemon force already, that you are porting over from 40k?

[Goodwin]

Thanks for the responses!

 

I’m actually an AoS Scoundrel who has a Nurgle Mortals army that I’ve been slowly expanding to include Daemons as well. I have some friends that are pushing 30k too though so thought I could sneak into all three settings. For now seems like they are the best way to get into HH while I still work up my IW, money wise but mainly time wise!

 

I’m currently sitting on;

Herald of Nurgle

40 Plague Bearers

9 Drones

12 Nurglings

3 Daemon Princes of Nurgle

 

Lord of Change

10 Pinks

 

Skarbrand

30 Bloodletters

 

30 Daemonettes

 

1 Undivided Prince

 

Given the points sizes I’ll certainly need to buff up on the bodies but was aiming for some direction on what a good investment is. I don’t want to ruin anyone’s hobby but going on flaccid kind of sucks too :p

 

Though, there will be some satisfaction in seeing marines explode my units like pimples.

 

I’ll keep an eye out for Angelus then. With the Ruinstorm Daemons buyable I thought maybe there was enough going to run an interesting force? I hope?

[Riptor]

Well, just quickly totting it up in my head, and with what you have nurgle-wise you could probably make a 1,750-2,000 point force already. Adding Utterblight into there would make it 2,000 very solidly.

It might not be the most effective force, but it would let you jump right in and get some 30k games under your belt whilst you decide how you want to expand.

[Goodwin]

Thanks Riptor!

Anything you’d recommend grabbing for some more teeth?

It sounds like Soul Grinders aren’t all that great. I do worry about all the big toys I’ll be facing - seen a few nasty tanks driving around so far. Would I be wanting some GUOz (Exalted or not), or Blight Drones (the robot ones, not the plague ones)?

 

Something that’ll threaten those tanks instead of just being puss filled road blocks?

[Riptor]

I will admit, I am not super familiar with Daemons. I played them in 6th and 7th edition 40k for a little while, and one of my main opponents does use them a little with his Word Bearers so I cannot give the best advice on this.

 

However, from my experience what you appear to be missing is ranged anti-tank. Daemon princes rip a tank in half if they can catch it. If your princes have wings, then it is not such an issue but if not you might find that getting to tanks is an issue.

 

Can 30k Daemons take the Decimator Siege Engine? I seem to recall it was a choice for Daemons or Marines in 40k. It would add some great firepower to the list (Dual Butcher Cannons, yum) and is a beautiful model. Of course, whether it then doesn't make it into the Angelus list at the end of next year is a worry.

 

As you mentioned, Blight Drones are an option, and would add some mobility to the list.

 

I don't really know much about GUOs, but I think your 4 total princes cover everything GUOs can do nicely.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You will need the 7th edition rulebook for Deamons . My advice is not to use daemon princes since it is too early for them to be around.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Black Orange

[Goodwin]

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

I do have a Decimator so I will check into that. Sounds like it’ll be smarter to focus on the stuff that’ll surely be in like the troops and stuff and then see what Angelus brings.

 

Either way a Daemon Prince seems like a safe bet so I’ll make that my yearly FW purchase for now!

 

May be a better idea to use allies for now to bring the long range of IW with annoying to kill stuff from Nurgle.

 

Think that’s good for me for now so thank y’all!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My advice is not to use daemon princes since it is too early for them to be around.

[Goodwin]

I was wondering about that. Seemed a bit soon for anyone to have gained that much favour.

 

Maybe a chapter that fell early? I’ll have to brush up on my lore some as well!

 

Thanks tor suggestion!

[Riptor]

I was wondering about that. Seemed a bit soon for anyone to have gained that much favour.

 

Maybe a chapter that fell early? I’ll have to brush up on my lore some as well!

 

Thanks tor suggestion!

Daemon princes do not necessarily have to be space marines that have fallen, could be earlier human followers?

[Goodwin]

Ooh okay, gotcha.

 

Well that’s good enough for me.

 

I should have three or four by Christmas so hopefully they can peel some folks and tanks apart!

[Rabidbunneh]

Bear in mind the forge world character daemons are daemon princes. You should be fine to use them, perhaps avoid the corrupted Power Armour parts on the models.

[Kizzdougs]

Daemon Princes have been around as long as species have worshiped the Chaos Gods. They pre-date the Heresy by a long, long time and don't even need to be of human origin. There would have been plenty of Xenos races that worshipped Chaos, potentially producing Daemon Princes.

 

You could try to avoid Daemon Princes that are obviously ex-marines if you wanted to, but there is nothing wrong with using a Daemon Prince in a 30k game :tu:

 

I probably wouldn't use '3 or 4' though. That doesn't seem very fluffy unless you're playing a massive game or just want to to play WAAC  games :)

 

 

[Trydragon]

My advice is not to use daemon princes since it is too early for them to be around.

 

To Be Fair the Two named HH Demon Characters are Both Demon Princes, not read there fluff but I think there Old as in Per Great Crusade Old but i could be wrong .. on that Note Cor'Bax And Samus are Great Chars

[Goodwin]

Cor’braxx does look pretty bad ass, may need to get him for sure!

 

Yeah 3-4 may be a bit much but I’m not quite sure what to rely on just yet for tank eating? Sticking strictly with Daemons if possible.

 

Thanks for the discussion on the existence of the daemon princes. I’ll do what I can to skimp on the armour-lookin fellows.

 

Much appreciate the responses!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I meant DPs raised up from the rank of SM Legions . There were no Chapters back then either - rollseyes .

[carlisimo]

Aren't full daemon armies technically not usable yet?  A lot of events have allowed people to play using the 7th ed. 40k codex, but that's an unofficial and occasionally controversial interpretation of the rules (mostly controversial due to fear that the 7th ed codex is relatively abusable).  There hasn't been much interest and probably won't be until they feature in Angelus and a later Webway War-related black book.  That'll probably be the moment that interest in allied Sisters of Silence picks up as well.

The upcoming (delayed) Horus Heresy rulebook will have a bare-bones list to get you by until Angelus comes out in about a year (as well as adding daemons the list of playable armies) - the interview about the rulebook seemed to imply that you could use the 7th ed. rules if you already had them, but since that book was out of print they had to include something.

 

[Azekai]

My advice is not to use daemon princes since it is too early for them to be around.

Ignatius Grulgor of the Death Guard was transformed into a daemon upon death, which occurred around the same time as the Dropsite Massacre. It isn't clear in Flight of the Eisenstein whether he is a Prince or not, but later he is summoned into realspace and he is, in fact, a Daemon Prince of Nurgle.

 

Space Marine Daemon Princes were certainly a thing.

[Sandlemad]

I meant DPs raised up from the rank of SM Legions . There were no Chapters back then either - rollseyes .

 

Chapters within the legions though. We know the Word Bearers chapter of the Unspeaking and the chapter of Consecrated Iron had both fallen further and harder than other parts of the legion, to the point of having multiple units of possessed/Gal Vorbak by the battle of Calth.

 

Besides Ignatius Grulgor there's also Maloq Kartho of the Word Bearers, who ascended to become the daemon prince M'Kar during the underworld war on Calth. Pretty sure by the time the traitors are scaling the walls on Terra there will be more ascended space marines.

[Charlo]

Real talk...

 

Can you even use Daemons as a legal Primary Detachment in the Heresy yet?

 

I thought they were only allies, at least until Angelus...

[SixOfOne]

Real talk...

 

Can you even use Daemons as a legal Primary Detachment in the Heresy yet?

 

I thought they were only allies, at least until Angelus...

 

To the best of my knowledge you are correct. To take daemons you either need to be playing Word Bearers or a Cult Horde list. They're becoming a fully playable army in Angelus. That being said, I would be absolutely ok with someone wanting to play daemons in HH games. Although, I would probably put limitations on stuff like Daemon Engines as a lot of them are built by Scoria and the Iron Warriors after the Heresy.