List feedback.

[Atrus]

Ive got a game against *arny voice* Aeaeaeldairaie this friday and im just after some feedback on my list. Its mostly centered around organs cuz i love the look of em so pretty much a theme list but i dont know how eldar are this edition.

Ive only managed a single win against eldar in 11 years of gaming. I dont care too much about winning, id just like a half decent game at least.

 

Anyways, list as follows...

 

 

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Questor Mechanicus / Questor Imperialis) [23 PL, 488pts] ++

 

+ Lord of War +

 

Knight Errant [23 PL, 488pts]: Meltagun, Questor Imperialis, Reaper chainsword, Stormspear rocket pod, Thermal cannon

 

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Ministorum) [78 PL, 1511pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Canoness [4 PL, 79pts]: Eviscerator, Inferno pistol

 

Celestine [11 PL, 200pts]: Celestine, Geminae Superia

 

+ Troops +

 

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 89pts]

. 2x Battle Sister

. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer

. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Flamer

. Sister Superior: Combi-flamer, Plasma pistol

 

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 89pts]

. 2x Battle Sister

. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer

. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Flamer

. Sister Superior: Combi-flamer, Plasma pistol

 

Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 125pts]

. 6x Battle Sister

. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer

. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Flamer

. Sister Superior: Combi-flamer, Plasma pistol

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Seraphim Squad [8 PL, 132pts]

. 4x Seraphim

. Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Plasma pistol

. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Exorcist [8 PL, 160pts]

 

Exorcist [8 PL, 160pts]

 

Exorcist [8 PL, 160pts]

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Immolator [5 PL, 105pts]: Immolation Flamer, Storm bolter

 

Immolator [5 PL, 105pts]: Immolation Flamer, Storm bolter

 

Sororitas Repressor [5 PL, 107pts]: Heavy flamer, Heavy flamer, Storm bolter

 

++ Total: [101 PL, 1999 points.]

[Servant of Dante]

I do imagine you’ll have trouble dealing with vehicles, depending on how many he has. Anything high T really could be an issue if he brings a decent number of them.

[Atrus]

Really? You dont think 3 exorcists, a thermal cannon and rockets will do the job?

Legit not an answer i expected.

[Servant of Dante]

Oh I wasn’t thinking about the thermal canons, but exorcists aren’t that great against vehicles, just ok imo. d6 shots hitting on 3s wounding on 3s (so 14/9 (about 1.56) wounding hits) which comes to maybe 3 wounds (2*1.5 ish) assuming they fail their save (which they probably will) against anything T 5-7 so it’ll take all three of them to not quite kill a rhino on average. Edited November 29, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Commander Dawnstar]

Consider the Predator (just as an easy example as I really don't know Eldar): it has 11 wounds and needs to suffer six before it faces stat degradation. That means that on average you'll need your Exorcists to inflict three successful wounds on a Predator before it even meaningfully feels the damage, and with each Exorcist firing D6 shots per turn you're probably going to want to apply at least two of them just to achieve that sort of result. I haven't played much 8th Edition at all, but what little I've played has shown me that anti-tank platforms can be extremely swingy. The Exorcist very much has that swingy quality - D6 shots - but the fact that it only does D3 damage means it potentially isn't even all that rewarding when you roll well.

 

Say your opponent shows up with three Predator equivalents or a bunch of Wave Serpents (which it turns out are actually tougher than Predators), how are you going to deal with them before they get free reign to open fire on your transports or potentially cripple your anti-tank options?

 

The Knight is definitely threatening from an anti-tank perspective. In fact I'd be willing to argue that it has more anti-tank firepower than three Exorcists if we're talking in very broad terms, with the jump from D3 to D6 damage per shot making an absolutely massive difference. Even there though you're still relying on what is a pretty low volume of fire (3+D6 shots) and a 3+/3+ to wound most vehicles can really take the sting out of your shooting on a turn when you roll low.

 

Edit: Dante basically beat me to it.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Commander Dawnstar

[Drider]

Needs more dakka and anti psyker.

 

If you can upgrade the the knight to a crusader with agc, tc and srp it'll see you good. Shoot the tc and srp at one vehicle and it should pop just about anything. The AVG will shred any non vehicles. Right choice making it mech So you can rotate ion shields, that 4++ really puts people off shooting at it.

 

If you can include a culexus assassin it'll seriously help you shut down those annoying eldar psyker. Most of the threats you have to worry about with eldar are much easier to handle without buffs.

 

Consider greyfax. She combos great with the culexus for shutting down psykers... and fits fluff wise if that's your thing.

 

Finally consider a callidus assassin. One of the largest power disparitys between index and codex armies is stratagem power. The callidus helps reign this in on turn 1. If you are lucky enough to burn a few command points at the start your opponent should become a lot less liberal with them later on when it really starts to matter, saving the last few for that needed reroll.

 

If you haven't already, have a look at the list I posted in "my order of our martyred lady" thread for the tournament list I posted a few posts on is the reasoning behind a couple of the list choices I made and why I made them. It should all be on page 6.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Drider

[Montford]

I cannot comment on the Knight as I have none and have never run them.

 

You have equipped your Seraphim with inferno pistols: EXCELLENT!! They are great for killing tanks, flyers, etc. Celestine is also excellent at chasing down aircraft and chopping off their wings, especially if you take the extra attack on the charge Warlord Trait.

 

The downside of Exorcists is their unreliable rate of fire, the upside of Exorcists is that they are tougher than Predators. With three they will likely do OK.

 

I think your list is viable. Go with what you have, I'd be interested in seeing how you fare.

 

The only thing that I might change (for my persona; playy style) is trading in one Exorcists and one Combi-flamer and getting Inquisitor Greyfax for anti-psyker, and a Retributor Squad of 4 Heavy Bolters. More of my opponents have hated my HB Retributors more than any unit save Celestine herself, as I often have them shoot in the Act of Faith Step, and 24 heavy bolter shots are handy. :)

[bkde]

As mentioned above, grouping some of those melta guns into dom squads are useful, makes those immos wayyyy faster and gets them in position. Other than CP's (which due to our lack of codex strategems we don't particularly need...) there's very little reason to take BSS over Doms.

 

You already have a fast attack detachment (celestine, seraphim, swap the bss to doms), and an heavy support detachment (cannoness/exo's), giving 5 CP's to play with and some alpha striking doms vs. only 6 CP's.

 

Although they've gotten a lot of hate, I love running 3 exo's plus a cannoness. Keep the cannoness cheap though (sure she may get to use the evis/inferno pistol) but I think those points are better spent elsewhere (extra seraphim bodies? BSS to doms). Again, exo's aren't necessarily vehicle hunters but they looove killing heavy infantry in cover (devs, havocs, dreadnoughts). The doms and melta cannon knight will handle vehicles

[bkde]

Oh, and get rid of the useless junk on your superiors. Plasma pistols, combiflamers, stormbolters on the flamer immos (you're advancing every turn with the immos aren't you?) and the extra heavy flamer on the repressor. They're using up points that should be allocated to special weapons on dominions.

[Atrus]

Thanks for the input :)

 

Some good points raised. I hadn't considered the CP difference between the various formations.

 

As much as id like to have the knight crusader in my list, i try to wysiwyg as much as possible. Im hoping to get my hands on an agc to convert the knight...some day.

 

Ive adjusted tje list and it should be a little more punchy to the high T stuff but i didnt want to lose too much dakka id theres a lot of little stuff. So ive decided to keep storm bolters on the immos and such as i believe they should complement them well for this role.

 

 

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Questor Mechanicus / Questor Imperialis) [23 PL, 488pts] ++

 

+ Lord of War +

 

Knight Errant [23 PL, 488pts]: Meltagun, Questor Imperialis, Reaper chainsword, Stormspear rocket pod, Thermal cannon

 

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Ministorum) [49 PL, 966pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Celestine [11 PL, 200pts]: Celestine, Geminae Superia

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Dominion Squad [5 PL, 102pts]

. Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Flamer

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Flamer

 

Dominion Squad [5 PL, 94pts]

. Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Flamer

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Flamer

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Flamer

 

Dominion Squad [5 PL, 118pts]

. Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

 

Seraphim Squad [8 PL, 132pts]

. 4x Seraphim

. Seraphim Superior: Bolt pistol, Plasma pistol

. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

. Seraphim w/ Special Weapons: 2x Inferno Pistols

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Immolator [5 PL, 111pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Immolation Flamer, Storm bolter

 

Immolator [5 PL, 111pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Immolation Flamer, Storm bolter

 

Sororitas Repressor [5 PL, 98pts]: Heavy flamer, Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Storm bolter

 

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Ministorum) [28 PL, 543pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Canoness [4 PL, 45pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Exorcist [8 PL, 166pts]: Hunter-killer missile

 

Exorcist [8 PL, 166pts]: Hunter-killer missile

 

Exorcist [8 PL, 166pts]: Hunter-killer missile

 

++ Total: [100 PL, 1997pts] ++

[bkde]

Try not to mix and match the loadouts on the doms. Trying to get two squads within melta range is much more difficult than getting one squad with fully loaded melta into range. Plus it's more efficient with AoF's. One squad of doms double tapping with 4 meltas is better than one squad double tapping with two meltas. Same for flamers, 4 double tapping flamers are better than 2 double tapping

[Servant of Dante]

I agree. Doms especially should be all 1 weapon if possible. That way you can focus the meltas on melta targets and the flamers on flamer targets. Edited November 30, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Atrus]

Were i could travel back in time, i would slap myself in the face 10 years ago, throw the boxes of tyranids i was going to buy across the storee and tell myself to put the money toward special and heavy weapons for the girls while i still had oodles of expendable cash.

 

Alas, i can only field what i have. But still, i shall concentrate my weapons better. Thatll make for one melta squad, one flamer squad and a mixed squad.

I ust like having versatility in my units, though i suppose thats an exercise in efficiency vs effectiveness.

 

Im not really anticipating the doms surviving long enough to double tap. Until i make more repressors, i feel theyre uncomfortably exposed and fragile having to jump put of the immolators. Either they make their target vanish into thin air or they do, just my experience.

[Servant of Dante]

And since they only get to fire once generally, it’ll count for more if they’re all carrying the same kind of weapon. Drive them up to a proper target for the weapon they’re carrying and fire :P

 

Anyway, I get what you’re saying about lack of models. Since it was all meltagun Doms all the time in 7th, I have 12 melta girls but only 2 each of storm bolsters and flamers . . . I never dreamt I’d say this, but I need more storm bolter Sisters.

[Matt_149]

Sadly the exorcist,come Saturday, are 135 rather than 160. This means you are going to have an extra 75pts! If you haven't got any more sisters and what you have above is it then can you change the loading on the knight? Turn him into a knight crusader? You can drop the hunter killer missiles and sb from your immolators then if you need an extra 24 pts...

[Atrus]

Its not that i dont have sisters. Ive 50+ bolter girls...but 6 melta girl (2 converted) 6 flamer girls, 3 heavy flamer girls, and 3 each of heavy bolter and multimelta girls i converted (poorly) from storm bolter girls back in 7th when storm bolters were pants.

 

Its feeling so weird right now looking at a list without a heavy weapon in a squad. My usual staple is bss with heavy flamer, melta and plasma pistol chainsword on the vet.

 

Very much looking forward to the points drop come satdy. Would feel more comfortable with more bodies on the table.

 

Like i said, i would like to AGC the knight, but ive invested so much time crafting that knight that i cant do anything but wysiwyg it. I do t have the heart to even proxy it. Itd be insulted...yes my models have personalities, its not crazy. I have an exorcist that refuses to shoot vehicles and single wound model but will turn multiwound models to paste; i have one that loves to ahoot down flyers and vehicles and the other one is just downright moody i think because its been painted the least and i keep forgetting its name.

My knight is proud and has performed remarkably well since its last dose of conversion love.

 

...needless to say my superstition with my models is affecting my list building...

 

I dont know why but im feeling exposed with this list. Maybe its an old mentality of doms aare sacrificial glass cannons and bss are backbones that stick around, im not sure.

 

I had an earlier list that had a couple of vindicare assassins (converted) but they took up a lot of space for...not much performance in the game i had them in.

 

I do have a greyfax model (amazing model) but im hesitant to field her because...shes a witch- a self loathing witch but still a witch...

 

I have trouble reconsiling that with my fluff playing and style etc (not conducive to compettitive list building)

[Servant of Dante]

Well, exorcists are known for their petulant machine spirits . . .

 

I’m this list I think the Exorcists and knight are your “staying power” units: the threat of Celestine, Seraphim and dominions will hopefully keepthe heat off them for a while :P

 

(I think my Exorcists have been mad at me or the edition change, before I could usually count on one or more getting 5-6 shots first turn, but I’m the few games of 8th I’ve played they’ve refused to fire many more than 3 at a time that I can remember)

Edited November 30, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Atrus]

Any idea what to expect from space elves these days?

[Drider]

I've not played pure craftworld or dark eldar in 8th yet, but i have played craftworld/ynnari(pre nerf) and harlequin. 

 

Minuses to hit.

Psychic shenanigans.

Generally annoying units. 

 

Things to consider, that you're probably already aware of but are always good to go over.

• Find out if he's got any deepstrikers and if he does try to use the 9" deepstrike exclusion zone to zone out the area around your important :cuss so it doesn't get sniped.
• if he's got flyers, ESPECIALLY a Hemlock you have got to bubble wrap any character you want to keep alive. Flyers are literal character hunters that can snipe a non bubble wrapped character better than snipers can.
• if he's smart the first thing he should do is open your transports then work on killing your army while ignoring celestine/knight. you're going to have to try to work it to your advantage in the only way you can. try to use celestine to kill any buff characters hes got as soon as you can and bring the knight up quick and get it into combat. Every turn you usually want your knight to either shoot and charge or fallback and shoot.
• Keep celestine's buff bubble in mind during deployment 6" to buff SoF to a 5++ is enough to make a difference.
• Dominion and vanguards, keep in mind vanguard is after seize. if he gets first turn consider vanguarding your dominions forward but keep them in range of celestines buff bubble, if she is on the deployment line they're still going to be almost at the middle of the table. if you get first turn, get in his face asap.
• Keep your CPs and strats in mind. if he targets the knight at all with any anti tank, rotate ion shields, but don't immediately reroll any saves without thinking. you need to consider first if celestine needs that reroll for MI during that phase.
• Sequence you're shooting correctly for rerolls, always fire the thermal cannon before the exorcists. if the knight only gets 1 or 2 shots CP reroll that, if it gets 3 or more save the CP. after that you know it's 'safe' to use one on the exorcists.

May the grace of the God-Emperor be with you.

[Atrus]

Rotate ion shields?

 

I dont have mechanicus codex. What is this thing that reeks of star trek?

[Drider]

Improves the invul by 1 until 5he end of the phase for 1 cp. So a 4++ vs shooting attacks. Makes knights very durable.

[Atrus]

Well that was the most BS game ive had of 40k in my life.

Ignoring the fact that my rolling was the most BS-est BS in the history of BS and that i think the dice gods can go sit on a pine cone and let it grow where the sun don't shine...

 

Opponent start the game with 7 CP. By end of turn 2, he had easily used up twice that many and still had 3 to spare. You know i thought CP were a fun minor thing to have only a small impact on the game.

My melta squads and knight all were in melta range of his wraith knight turn 1. 8 sources of melta. Exorcists roll complete BS. Pretty much my entire army focuses on the WK and get it down to 5 wounds. His turn 1. Oh pop a 3 CP strat and gain 12 wounds back and then get all 3 CP back. CP regen BS. Frak!

 

Needleas to say, it was the singularly most unenjoyable game ive ever had in my life. By end of turn 2, i had 2 exorcists left and my cannoness.

It wasnt even superior strategy on his part. It was dice!

Flamer doms and their immolator target dire avengers in the open. Score 18 wounds. 2 failed saves.

 

My knight went down to 6 hits (4 from shooting). The most damage i did was when my knight exploded and caused 6 mortal wounds each on 4 of his units.

 

Gah. Dice and dice gods were just BS.

 

Called it end of turn two and all id killed was a wraith lord and 6 dire avengers. Oh, and a guardian.

I cant take credit for the 4 wraith guard taken out by the knights explosion.

 

Meanwhile my whole army is all but wiped and celestine killed twice over.

 

Not. A. Fun. Night.

[Drider]

I'm sorry to hear that your game turned sour. It's never nice playing a one sided game. :(

The only thing I can suggest that might have had an impact would be a Callidus, she's just about the only thing that can even make an impact on reigning in the power of codex stratagems.

[bkde]

What was the opponents list?

[Atrus]

Lets see if i recall...

 

Autarch with wings

1 or 2 spirit seers

1 or 2 farseers

Wave serpent

2x5 flame wraith guard

1x5 axe anf shield wraith guard

2x 10 dire avengers

1x 20 guardians with a weapon platform

Wraith lord

Wraith knight