Including Chapter Approved in List Building

[Prot]

Hey guys.

 

I'm trying to think of a core for a list. I have no idea what to do right now. This isn't a complaint but I'm pulling Magnus out of my list, and anything more than 5 Scarab Occult (even though I painstakingly painted 15 of them!!!)

 

I see the Librarius conclave... err Cabal thing. It has to go on Ahriman of course. I want them all on disks with one getting the Relic.

 

If you saw room for 400 points in your (pulling out Magnus) what would you replace that with?

 

The troops are set, Tzaangors and Rubrics in a Rhino. (I hide my Disk Sorcs in the cloud of goats). The dual Predators were pretty 'meh' to me. (I only cast Prescience once though).

 

What does an extra 400-ish points get you from the armylist (no Forgeworld please).

[Paladin777]

If they are not already in your list I would put in a pair of anti-tank predators.

[Prot]

If they are not already in your list I would put in a pair of anti-tank predators.

 

They are, but one is kind of wonky because of points. I usually have some Horrors spread out in front of them.  I could expand that to other shooty stuff like.. Forgefiend/Dread. Or go assaulty with a pair of Maulers.

 

I used to fill these big gaps with the Scarab Occult, but I'm going to go down to 5, and stay there unless they get fixed.

[Paladin777]

What else is in your list then? A heldrake might be useful. Not particularly killy, but enough to be a good distraction and fast enough to tie up heavy shooting units.

[BoomWolf]

It's rather killy when you realize it's not a gunboat but a flying assault unit.

 

And it's a pretty good answer to the -1 to hit meta. Auto hits and CC.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Maulers are fun. And if you have a sorceror babysit them then there is lots of potential for buffing them

[Raven1]

I like the idea of the cabal thing, but i want to see cheaper HQs to go with that list. I mean honestly what are we looking at line 5 sorcerers total? For one HQ detachment and a Battalion detachment not to mention another detachments.

 

I think this will become more important when our codex drops, but building efficient detachments maxing out command points is important is a big part of why some armies are more effective than others.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Does anyone else think a Defiler would be pretty good to great-ish now? 

the load out I came up with was a Combi-bolter, a havoc Launcher. A twin heavy bolter, and of course the Battle cannon. This load out comes to 170, and for its points i think its fairly fantastic. 

2-4 combi shots

D6 battle cannons

D6 heavoc launcher

6 Heavy bolter

 

For 170? thats ALOT of dakka for relatively little points investment, BS 4 doesn't matter much to us as we have easy access to  prescience and such and since the bugger has so many shots low BS doesnt matter quite as much.

 

This many shots being able to help with hordes. I really like the concept, and it seems like it would *at least* be decent at this price point. its in the exact same range as the Mauler and Forgefiend now while also being significantly tougher (2+ wounds) , with D6 damage claws in melee and the same Regen ability

Does anyone else think that we will end up being the "Daemon engine" legion once our book is out? just got an odd feeling about that for some reason. But to be fair the Daemon Engine strategem is also fantastic in of itself and would work well with any of them. 

[Tamika]

Defilement is definitely viable now... I’d tale the scourge over the havoc launcher though.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Defilement is definitely viable now... I’d tale the scourge over the havoc launcher though.

 

Interesting debate. 7 attacks in Melee VS the D6 str 5 shots at range. 

 

Given that they are almost identical in points it is definitely something to think about. I would generally only throw the defiler into something that is tough in melee but sometimes you dont have the option, so those extra attacks would certainly help, but being that we play Thousand Sons we have a "volume shooting" issue and a melee issue. could see that one going either way. 

 

Tzeentch mark + Changeling comes to mind for us spamming daemon engines though ;-) 

[Zodd1888]

Tzeentchian Artillery? Makes sense to me. Give a pair a melee weapon so it can hold the back line while erasing screens.

[Raven1]

Too bad you cant take warpsmiths to heal wounds. A warpsmith, the changling, and 3 deamon engines would be rather formidable.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Too bad you cant take warpsmiths to heal wounds. A warpsmith, the changling, and 3 deamon engines would be rather formidable.

 

True; I plan to stay pure 1k sons (splashing only tzeentch daemons on occasion) 

 

Maybe if we get lucky one of the cults will be a technomancer spell/strat/trait or something. I am eager to see what GW has in store, as with chapter approved we only got a tiny piece of the picture. 

[Khannis]

I think an Order of Ruin technomancer (as Ignis himself would be too much to hope for) would be a fluffy and interesting addition to our roster. And hopefully some long range firepower not in the form of giant metal dinosaurs...

[Sonoftherubric21]

I think an Order of Ruin technomancer (as Ignis himself would be too much to hope for) would be a fluffy and interesting addition to our roster. And hopefully some long range firepower not in the form of giant metal dinosaurs...

 

and fast slots, and elite slots, and slightly more auras, and competent exalteds on the table...... lol. (just slightly!) 

[Raven1]

 

 

I think an Order of Ruin technomancer (as Ignis himself would be too much to hope for) would be a fluffy and interesting addition to our roster. And hopefully some long range firepower not in the form of giant metal dinosaurs...

and fast slots, and elite slots, and slightly more auras, and competent exalteds on the table...... lol. (just slightly!)

So like a fully, thoughtful developed codex? TBH probably shouldn't play a niche army full of "FUN"

 

But seriously though...yes to all of the above.

 

Also question for anyone with CA or smarter than me are there point updates for all of Codex: CSM or do i texhnically need the C:CSM for all the changes from the Index.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Raven1

[Prot]

So has anyone had a game yet with the new changes from CA???

[Nym]

So has anyone had a game yet with the new changes from CA???

I had a 1500pts game vs Primaris Marines (Ravenguard) on saturday with Chapter Approved. I won by a comfortable margin but the player wasn't very experienced in 8th edition, even though he's quite a veteran of Warhammer (it was his 3rd game of 8th). We play Maelstrom on a 6 objectives scenario. Classic deployment.

 

My list was : Supreme command [Thousand Sons] (Ahriman, Sorcerer, Sorcerer, 5x Scarabs w/ Soulreaper and Helfyre), Vanguard [Alpha Legion] (Warpsmith, 5x Rubrics w/ Soulreaper, 5x Rubrics w/ Soulreaper, 6x Rubrics w/ 4 Warpflamers, Forgefiend, Heldrake)

 

His list : Patrol (Captain, Lieutenant, Librarian, 10x Intercessors, Redemptor dread, Repulsor, 5 or 6x Inceptors)

 

He used 3pts to turn his Captain in Chapter Master (bad idea imo), I used 1pt to infiltrate the Warpflamers Rubrics. Inceptors and Scarabs are held in Reserve. My Warlord is Ahriman with the new trait. My relic is the new relic.

 

Turn 1 : his Intercessors put 1 wound on my Warpflamers who were in Cover, but I use a CP to reroll my save. He kills 3 Rubrics on the other side of the board and hurts the Heldrake.

Turn 1 : Warpflamers and Heldrake take care of the Intercessors. First blood. Other squads take objectives.

 

Turn 2 : Uneventful. Some scoring for both sides. I take the lead by 2 or 3pts. My badly hurt Heldrake kills his Librarian (d6 gives 5 hits, 5 wounds, he fails 3 saves).

 

Turn 3 : Inceptors drop down, destroy my Forgefiend and a Sorcerer. Repulsor kills the Heldrake.

Turn 3 : My Scarabs land safely before the Inceptors. I try to cast Tzeentch Firestorm and my Sorcerer fails by 1 (...) then perils on Smite. The Scarabs sorcerer tries to cast Smite and... Perils. I reroll a 1 for another 1... Geegee. He dies and takes 1 wound off a Scarab. I still manage to kill the Inceptors and Ahriman charges his Chapter Master, killing him (with the help of Daemonic strength).

 

We call it at this time because I have 4 objectives to his 1, with First blood, Linebreaker and Slay the warlord.

 

Conclusion : the relic was useless, Tzeentch firestorm was useless and I didn't get to use our new Warlord trait (but I think it's fine). Scarabs are still bad, Rubrics are still okish but not great, Ahriman is still awesome.

[Paladin777]

I agree with most of your conclusion, but I’ve still been getting good milage out of my SOT’s the few games I’ve played.

[Prot]

We call it at this time because I have 4 objectives to his 1, with First blood, Linebreaker and Slay the warlord.

 

 

 

Conclusion : the relic was useless, Tzeentch firestorm was useless and I didn't get to use our new Warlord trait (but I think it's fine). Scarabs are still bad, Rubrics are still okish but not great, Ahriman is still awesome.

 

 

Thank you Nym. Basically confirming what most of us had speculated.

 

I will put the relic on Ahriman because for right now (index rules) we can. I just got my "WARLORD" set today... (I certainly don't feel like a warlord with these rules. ;) )

 

And I wanted to read it exact myself and until the codex comes out and says he can't use this, I think he can. I know it's about as useful as a firetruck on Prospero but whatever.

 

I will try this tomorrow. I'm still very pumped to try out new stuff even if it looks less than stellar. I'm curious if your opponent was using the new points for Primaris because a lot of those units did go down. 

 

I keep hearing a rumour about (in March I think) that Smite is getting 'adjusted'.  If this is true it's going to make it very interesting when our stuff finally appears.

 

Tomorrow... we shall see. I'm planning on 3 Sorcs on disks (including Ahriman) Magnus is out. Just... really don't like him with the gobs of firepower I see around here. I'm sure I'll try him again, but I really hate living and dying on the success of 1 model in my lists.

 

I don't want to play lots of daemons but it's looking like I may have to. I don't own the Changeling but I'm starting to think at the least I need to get some horrors/daemons and Changeling into the mix.(I guess Ahriman would benefit.)

 

Might try 3 Preds even though it's against my personal playstyle ( for the Strategem).

[Zodd1888]

What if our codex had to be rewritten because of smite being adjusted? That could make sense with the odd release cycle and mention.

 

Edit: I didn't mean the whole of it, but maybe significant portions.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Zodd1888

[Sonoftherubric21]

May I ask why scarabs are bad?  Overall I get good mileage out of mine.  They drop, delete a unit or most of one, maybe make melee and do okay. 

Though I admit a single unit can be "meh" Ive had some success in my Scarab Occult heavy lists (daemon engines, maybe magnus, exalteds and 20 Scarab Occult) im 3 for 3 with that army so far out of the play tests. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Sonoftherubric21

[Nym]

I'm curious if your opponent was using the new points for Primaris because a lot of those units did go down. 

 

He wasn't, even though I begged him to. I think he could have afforded at least another 5 Intercessors.

 

May I ask why scarabs are bad?  Overall I get good mileage out of mine.  They drop, delete a unit or most of one, maybe make melee and do okay. 

 

They're not bad because they can't achieve anything. In fact, I think they're pretty much mandatory for us considering the niche they fill.

 

I think (feel free to disagree ^^) they're bad because of Mr. Deadweight (aka Scarab Occult Sorcerer). Not only does he cost a ton while every other army gets sergents for free (even the crazy good ones like Eldar exarchs or Ork nobz...), but if you actually use his powers, you risk losing 100pts of models... And the guy doesn't even have All Is Dust !!

 

Because of that model alone, Scarabs are overcosted by at least 10%. If you take their other shortcomings into account (not-so-special "special weapons", very slow, All Is Dust being useless for them against all D1 weapons that don't have at least AP-1), it's probably 15% to 20%.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Nym

[BoomWolf]

Gotta ask, why do people think Smite is getting adjusted?

 

If it would have been adjusted, the place to do it would be IN chapter approved, and it didn't.

 

Especially why in March? is just so random.

 

Seems like one of them baseless rumors someone just made up and it kept rolling from there.

[Nym]

Gotta ask, why do people think Smite is getting adjusted?

 

GW designers said it in their live twitch a while ago. In March they'll be coming up with some adjustments to matched play and then every 6 months.