Competitive BA list discussion *Post-Codex*

[Arryn]

Made some tweaks to my initial list. Here is where I'm at. Playing a few people on Saturday. I'm worried it's a tad too assault heavy, but I do have a lot of threats on the board to hopefully split my opponents fire. I really like the idea of splitting up Dev Squads. Let's you double up on the Signum so I always have 2 Lascannons hitting on a 2+. Really not sold on the Warlord Trait, but I think Artisan of War or Visions of Sanguinus is where it's at. I do like the idea of a -3 Power Sword doing a flat 2 damage. Not sure on the Veritas Vitae, but I guess if I start with 6 Command Points I should make at least that one back.

 

BATTALION

 

HQ

Warlord - Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack, Power Sword, Bolt Pistol, Angel's Wing, Artisan of War

Librarian w/ Jump Pack, Force Sword, Bolt Pistol, Veritas Vitae

 

TROOPS

5 Tactical Marines w/ Lascannon, Storm Bolter

5 Scouts w/ Snipers

5 Scouts w/ Bolt Pistol, Combat Blade

 

HEAVY

5 Devastators w/ 2 Lascannons, Heavy Bolter, Cherub

5 Devastators w/ 1 Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, Cherub

 

VANGUARD

 

HQ

Mephiston

 

ELITES

10 Vanguard Veterans w/ Jump Pack, 1 Relic Blade, 3 Storm Shields, 2 Power Swords, 7 Dual Chainswords

10 Death Company w/ Jump Pack, 1 Thunder Hammer, 1 Power Axe, Bolters, Chainswords

Death Company Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons, Storm Bolter, Meltagun

 

FAST ATTACK

5 Assault Marines w/ Jump Pack, 1 Power Axe, 1 Hand Flamer, Melta Bombs, 2 Meltaguns

 

FLYER

Stormraven w/ AssCans, Melta, Hurricane Bolters

 

2,000 Points - 6 Command Points (spent 1 pre-battle to have 2 Relics)

 

Thoughts?

Sorry mate just quickly, the Sang Priest - is this Index? I thought the JP Sang Priest wasn’t available in the dex? If so can he still have the codex options?

[TheHarrower]

 

Sorry mate just quickly, the Sang Priest - is this Index? I thought the JP Sang Priest wasn’t available in the dex? If so can he still have the codex options?

 

 

Nope. You can use options for a units gear from the Index.

[CrimsonExarch]

Are dakka inceptors worth it now to act as screen clearers for our assault elements? 135pts for a very mobile gun platform (on wings of fire) could be very worth it.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Are dakka inceptors worth it now to act as screen clearers for our assault elements? 135pts for a very mobile gun platform (on wings of fire) could be very worth it.

I believe so. There is so so much potential and multi-wound T5 that can hit with potential mortal wounds isn't terrible at all.

[The Unseen]

Are dakka inceptors worth it now to act as screen clearers for our assault elements? 135pts for a very mobile gun platform (on wings of fire) could be very worth it.

When you compare them to company vets with packs and stormbolters, they seem pretty good.

105 for 5 T4 3+ Wounds, firing 20 str 4 shots at 12"

Compared to

135 for 6 T5 3+ wounds, firing 18 str 5 ap -1 shots at 18"

 

The vets are significantly better in combat, with 15 attacks, compared to 6 with a small chance of a few mortal wounds, but I would say for fire support their definetely solidly priced now.

 

Now if only their models weren't awful.

Hmm...

Wonder if their weapons would look alright being held by tartaros terminators with a personal teleporter backpack...

Edited December 7, 2017 by The Unseen

[Arryn]

 

 

Sorry mate just quickly, the Sang Priest - is this Index? I thought the JP Sang Priest wasn’t available in the dex? If so can he still have the codex options?

 

Nope. You can use options for a units gear from the Index.

Srsly wonder why they didn’t just include this in the dex...

[TheHarrower]

 

 

Sorry mate just quickly, the Sang Priest - is this Index? I thought the JP Sang Priest wasn’t available in the dex? If so can he still have the codex options?

Nope. You can use options for a units gear from the Index.

Srsly wonder why they didn’t just include this in the dex...

 

 

It's their weird new philosophy of not putting options in the Dex if they don't make a model for it. I dunno, it's weird. I hope they'll address stuff like this in the future with some sort of book that allows you to modify or create your own units.

Edited December 7, 2017 by TheHarrower

[Lord_Caerolion]

It's back to the good old Chapterhouse lawsuit, it's GW's way of preventing third party sellers making parts for "sci-fi knights" that just so happen to heavily resemble Marines, etc. Basically, if a codex has an option or unit with no official model, third parties have free reign to make whatever they like for it, from memory.

[Panzer]

It's back to the good old Chapterhouse lawsuit, it's GW's way of preventing third party sellers making parts for "sci-fi knights" that just so happen to heavily resemble Marines, etc. Basically, if a codex has an option or unit with no official model, third parties have free reign to make whatever they like for it, from memory.

Then they wouldn't allow the Index options tho.

It's more likely that GW is slowly getting us used to Primaris and at the same time give us less reasons to invest heavily into regular marines so the outcry later on won't be as huge.

They said they learned from AoS (especially the early time) after all.

[Bonzi]

My current gut feeling is that chasing the turn 1 assault alpha strike deathblow isn't where we want to be looking and building lists around. I play several other armies, Guard included, and defending against turn one strikes is deployment 101. Scout units are always pushed out to move back enemy DS units. Chaff blocker squads stand on the front lines 4" in front of vital units and 4" away from other screens. Counter charge and counter punch units are on standby inside of transports to jump out and beat on aggressive enemies once they kill my unit or I back out of combat to.

 

Don't get me wrong, the strategems are viable and dangerous, but I feel they are there to control enemy setup and punish blunders, not to build whole lists around...it's just too CP dependent. Example: opponents know we are deepstrike alpha capable so they will push out scout screens to block our DS units. This in turn puts those screen units in charge range of normally placed jumpers from our deployment zone. MSU Assault Squads, Bikers, or rapid firing Intercessors now have ideal position to clear the wrapping without wasting CP. This allows a single unit on turn two to make greater use and hit better targets from DS, using those strats, and other elements of our army should be in place by then to support.

 

A bigger deemphasis on DSing will also make our auras more effective as well.

[Panzer]

It's not like a list with a potential turn 1 charge is unable to do something else. Everything in a turn 1 charge list is useful even when not aiming for such a tactic.

It's really more about playing the list than building the list in this case here imo.

Edited December 7, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

It's back to the good old Chapterhouse lawsuit, it's GW's way of preventing third party sellers making parts for "sci-fi knights" that just so happen to heavily resemble Marines, etc. Basically, if a codex has an option or unit with no official model, third parties have free reign to make whatever they like for it, from memory.

Then they wouldn't allow the Index options tho.

It's more likely that GW is slowly getting us used to Primaris and at the same time give us less reasons to invest heavily into regular marines so the outcry later on won't be as huge.

They said they learned from AoS (especially the early time) after all.

 

I guess it depends on the wording of the lawsuit results. Still, it's been the reason for why GW dramatically cut down on the number of special characters without models. I think it's mainly an ease-of-entry thing, though, so people can create all options possible for a given entry, without having to buy multiple boxes.

[The Unseen]

I think we're so CP starved, as much as its distastfull, I feel we can't over look a cheap IG (or Astra Militarum for any new bloods) battalion or even brigade.

Marines, and especially marine hqs, aren't cheap.

You can fill a battalion for under 200 pts, and I think a brigade for like 500 pts or some such ridiculously low number.

 

Of course, purists are to be commended, but I can't see running double battalion with marines, mostly because the idea of running 6 troops and 4 hqs sound terrible.

So either a battalion+vanguard will have to be enough CP, or I might reach out for some armed chapter serfs.

[Panzer]

I don't even have enough points to take every BA unit I want in a 2k list, not to mention of having spare points to get some extra CP. :D

But yeah I'd say that's definitely the way to go for competetive lists. It offers cheap chaff which Marines are lacking and lots of CP. I also don't think it's distastefull. It's actually pretty fluffy but maybe not something we want to play every single game (we are BA player and not Imperium player after all).

[Ceril]

Considering soup, bringing fire base from another chapter. Some assassins, culexus to deny enemy psykers. Not sure if celestine is worth it anymore, she with some elite soup used to be my go to vanguard.

 

BA vanguard detachment for melee units. 10man DC, some kind of librarian (normal/dread/mephy?). Vanguard with plasma dropping in. Maybe culexus as 3rd elite?

 

Raven guard for the 6cp and firebase. Scouts as troops for denial.

 

Need to calculate what it totals to, and see what other toys will fit. Waiting for codex/battlescribe.

[Karhedron]

Now that Dante is Warden of the Imperium Nihilus, I would say that Blood Angels leading an Imperial Soup army is actually quite fluffy. BAs have a history of fighting alongside other Imperial armies (Armageddons 2 and 3) and will be even more likely to do so now that Dante is in command of those armies rather than just fighting alongside them.

[Panzer]

I really hope GW is going to give us some kind of human Baal soldiers in the future. I don't care if it's part of the BA Codex, the AM Codex or some standalone Codex even. I just want to see a Baal specific Guardsmen regiment. :D

[Charlo]

From a purely CP standpoint, soup does seem desirable...

 

I really hope GW is going to give us some kind of human Baal soldiers in the future. I don't care if it's part of the BA Codex, the AM Codex or some standalone Codex even. I just want to see a Baal specific Guardsmen regiment.

 

Enough regimental tactics to make you're own!

[Panzer]

From a purely CP standpoint, soup does seem desirable...

 

I really hope GW is going to give us some kind of human Baal soldiers in the future. I don't care if it's part of the BA Codex, the AM Codex or some standalone Codex even. I just want to see a Baal specific Guardsmen regiment.

 

Enough regimental tactics to make you're own!

Sure, but I want to see what GW would make it officially if it were to happen. ;)

[Karhedron]

Didn't Dante arm tens of thousands of Aspirants during the Devastation of Baal? That sounds like a good precedent for a Baal PDF to me.

[Panzer]

Didn't Dante arm tens of thousands of Aspirants during the Devastation of Baal? That sounds like a good precedent for a Baal PDF to me.

With the promise that everyone who survives gets a chance to become a Space Marine, so not really. :P

I'm hoping on the fact that Guilliman told him to build up Baal and her moons properly so people can actually live there and Dantes new position. 

[CCE1981]

This post has kinda exploded so I haven’t read through all of it.

 

How “good” would a Librarian be as your Warlord? I would give him a Force Sword, the +1 damage trait, Quickening and Wing of Sanguinious powers, then the Jump Pack relic. He would Deep Strike with a Sanguinary guard escort, cast his powers get within 2” of his target, charge then use the 3d6 charge distance strategem on the Sanguinary guard.

[Charlo]

This post has kinda exploded so I haven’t read through all of it.

 

How “good” would a Librarian be as your Warlord? I would give him a Force Sword, the +1 damage trait, Quickening and Wing of Sanguinious powers, then the Jump Pack relic. He would Deep Strike with a Sanguinary guard escort, cast his powers get within 2” of his target, charge then use the 3d6 charge distance strategem on the Sanguinary guard.

 

Sounds pretty dang good...!

[Blackcadian]

What an excellent thread and how long we‘ve waited for it!

 

That said I am quite disappointed that both new Codex batreps that I saw so far didn’t end so well for Blood Angels.

 

Anyhow, as I am a sucker for Forgeworld I wonder what units would complement our forces well.

 

I see the Chaplain Dread mentioned several times, but aren’t super impressed by it on paper.

 

Generally I hear good things about the Scorpius, Rapier Carriages and the Sicaran, which would help with our firebase. Fireraptors are apparently pretty mean, as is a Leviathan. Anything I left out?

[Karhedron]

How “good” would a Librarian be as your Warlord? I would give him a Force Sword, the +1 damage trait, Quickening and Wing of Sanguinious powers, then the Jump Pack relic. He would Deep Strike with a Sanguinary guard escort, cast his powers get within 2” of his target, charge then use the 3d6 charge distance strategem on the Sanguinary guard.

Pretty good indeed. I would favour the Axe myself if there won't be a Sanguinary Priest around but apart from that, rock-on.

 

While this would ensure your SG have their rerolls, I do wonder if running him solo (not as your warlord) would be better. He can DS and then use Wings to jump over screening units to attack rear support units. Used like this he becomes more of a mini guided-psychic missile.