Competitive BA list discussion *Post-Codex*

[Xerxus]

Do not underestimate how far into the opponent's line you can get with these changes. You can easily tie up a tank and block much of the opponents shooting on turn 1. What we had before isn't even half as good as what we have now.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

 

 

 

 

You've still got to roll over nine. Granted it's easier to do but you will fail from time to time. IIMO this stratagem is nought more than a gimmick and shouldn't be relied on

 

True but with command re-rolls and/or Lemartes you just keep increasing the chances. I'll have to practice it of course but the payoff is worth it. I run a 15-man DC squad with one power sword, one thunder hammer, and the rest bolt pistol/chainsword (I can't yet bring my self to snap off arms to replace with bolters).

 

That's 65 attacks with just chainswords if I get the +1 attack power off.

130 if I attack twice.

 

That most likely wipes whatever it was you initially charged and then some. The risk is well worth the reward.

Forget the command reroll. 1 strategem per phase

 

 

 

I can still use a command point to re-roll a charge, it isn't a strategem.

 

lol of course that's a stratagem. It's the BRB one.

 

 

Oh yea! I got so used to using it I forgot where it actually came from haha!

[Pendent]

Do not underestimate how far into the opponent's line you can get with these changes. You can easily tie up a tank and block much of the opponents shooting on turn 1. What we had before isn't even half as good as what we have now.

Seriously. That charge the BA player made against the dreadnoughts and Chaos Lord in the Tabletop Tactics video was insane and basically won that flank by itself. He made some huge mistakes but you could see some massive potential in our units.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Here is my gut reactions to what a lot of you have been saying.

 

We are still 7th edition BA.

 

OIF was a very reliable Alpha strike. It was however incredibly expensive. We've simply exchanged our Assault TDA for a big blob of Death Company. Now we are trading drop pods for the equivalent of Characters that do have synergies, the same effect is going to happen. We are going to absolutely demolish whatever we kill and then the opponent is going to simply demolish that "Death Star" in the following turn.

 

It's going to be tough taking on Imperial and Chaos soup. Eldar and their webways bombs are more effective alpha strikes.

 

Nids are still going to be a tough opponent, and if it goes to the battle of attrition we are going to be a bit handicapped.

 

Basically Reece's "fleshtearers" list is still going to be good with our book.

 

I think MSU VVs are going to be the better option, saturate the opponent with multiple small charges instead of one blob attempting to multi assault. (Again gut reaction)

 

Speaking of terminators, I think the Stratagem that allows them to re-roll all to hits until the BA players turn is something we may want to look at. Time will tell.

 

I agree with Morticon's initial claim, B- C+

 

My ultinate pre-judgment call is BA soup is still going to be better. You have to have the assassins to help control Smite Spam (until they tweak smite as per rumors) Time may prove blobs of Imps as troops are still cheaper/better OBSEC for additional CPs.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Panzer]

Yeah we won't be one of the top tier tournament armies but I think we can be decent at least. That's honestly all I wanted lol

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Random Thought as I wake up today.

There are a TON of options in this coming dex =)

Far more toys than points and CP allow. 

 

Our Libbys are extra extra awesome now.

They take some pressure off the CP pool in the shenanigans department.

 

Powers are fantastic. Shield is not the best power...

 

Can't see using more than 2 probably, 3 seems likely too many or is it?

Mephiston, JP Libby(s) or pricey sounding Flynought...

Always take at least 1 tho most likely. = Mephiston?

[Frater Cornelius]

If I am not mistaken, the chance of rolling a 9 or higher with 3D6 is around 74%. You can also influence that with the re-roll Stratagem. One unit will make it in, which is probably the DC. The issue is that Lemmy and the Lieutenant will not, most of the time. So you either need to leave some DC within 6" or fully commit without buffs.

 

Personally, I prefer 10 SG, Sanguinary Ancient with the 5++, relic JP Librarian and the Sanguinor as Warlord. You got re-rolls, 5++, 5+++. More expensive though, I believe. It also looks far more glorious.

[durdle-durdle]

If I am not mistaken, the chance of rolling a 9 or higher with 3D6 is around 74%. You can also influence that with the re-roll Stratagem. One unit will make it in, which is probably the DC. The issue is that Lemmy and the Lieutenant will not, most of the time. So you either need to leave some DC within 6" or fully commit without buffs.

 

Personally, I prefer 10 SG, Sanguinary Ancient with the 5++, relic JP Librarian and the Sanguinor as Warlord. You got re-rolls, 5++, 5+++. More expensive though, I believe. It also looks far more glorious.

Well, if you’re using it on a 15 man dc blob, it’s likely they wouldn’t all be able to swing anyways, so leaving one or two back to string to lemmy or the lt isn’t a big blow at all. They both have a 6” bubble, so you just need 3” to touch one guy from the unit.

 

And that’s assuming of course lemmy and the other fail their charges, which has a 50:50 chance of happening.

[Captain_Krash]

Just to throw this out there. Regarding standard tacticals. Is it going to be better to MSU or go full 10 man? Or not at all, waste of points?

 

Krash

[Cronhour]

I'm thinking of a rhino rush with tac marines, mephiston and corbs using the stratagem with DC and sanguinary guard dropping turn two maybe, use some shooting to punch holes in the chaff then use the descent stratagem to deliver jp death company punches

[Julius Firefocht]

Well.. having read through most of the spoilers in detail, here are some units that I think will be the crucial keys to victory, in no particular order:

 

1) Astorath/Your own Chaplain with the Warlord Trait that grants the Fearless aura

 

Reasoning: The Fearless aura is important because it leads into...

 

2) 15 to 20-man blob of JP Death Company with at least 3 Thunder Hammers

 

Reasoning: You want to charge into as many things as you can in your turn. A 20 man blob will cover as much ground as you need and kill most things you need to kill on your Turn 1 charge, while the Fearless aura from the above will ensure that you lose no Death Company to morale checks even if you take massive casualties. So, in order to make your Turn 1 charge, you will need...

 

3) Lemartes

 

Reasoning: This guy combined with the Descent of Angels strategem will give you a very high chance of making the charge on Turn 1. In order to diversify your threats, here is the best Distraction Carnifex in our codex...

 

4) Mephiston

 

Reasoning: Move him up to his maximum speed, cast Wings of Sanguinius to move another 12" and reroll charge distance, and cast Quickening to start blending enemy tanks and high value targets with his S10 Force Sword. Honorable mention goes to....

 

5) Librarian Dreadnoughts

 

Reasoning: Seriously. A flying dreadnought with huge threat radius and access to additional D3 attacks via Quickening? And a Character that cannot be shot at if it is hiding among friendly models? Where else do you get such a bargain?

 

To really seal the deal by offering multiple threats, maybe you want to throw in a squad of TH/SS Terminators to follow up. The rest of the army can consist of Baal Preds, Devastators/Hellblasters to hold your deployment zone or even Razorbacks with TL Lascannons. The choice is yours, but I would advise against playing a full assault army in such a shooty edition... ultimately all of the above are expendable tools that you must use to kill whatever you need to kill so that the rest of your army can mop up.

 

Remember.. anything in this game dies in a turn or 2 if the opponent wants it dead! Just make sure your own guys kill more than their cost and you are good to go.

 

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Well.. having read through most of the spoilers in detail, here are some units that I think will be the crucial keys to victory, in no particular order:

 

1) Astorath/Your own Chaplain with the Warlord Trait that grants the Fearless aura

 

Reasoning: The Fearless aura is important because it leads into...

 

2) 15 to 20-man blob of JP Death Company with at least 3 Thunder Hammers

 

Reasoning: You want to charge into as many things as you can in your turn. A 20 man blob will cover as much ground as you need and kill most things you need to kill on your Turn 1 charge, while the Fearless aura from the above will ensure that you lose no Death Company to morale checks even if you take massive casualties. So, in order to make your Turn 1 charge, you will need...

 

3) Lemartes

 

Reasoning: This guy combined with the Descent of Angels strategem will give you a very high chance of making the charge on Turn 1. In order to diversify your threats, here is the best Distraction Carnifex in our codex...

 

4) Mephiston

 

Reasoning: Move him up to his maximum speed, cast Wings of Sanguinius to move another 12" and reroll charge distance, and cast Quickening to start blending enemy tanks and high value targets with his S10 Force Sword. Honorable mention goes to....

 

5) Librarian Dreadnoughts

 

Reasoning: Seriously. A flying dreadnought with huge threat radius and access to additional D3 attacks via Quickening? And a Character that cannot be shot at if it is hiding among friendly models? Where else do you get such a bargain?

 

To really seal the deal by offering multiple threats, maybe you want to throw in a squad of TH/SS Terminators to follow up. The rest of the army can consist of Baal Preds, Devastators/Hellblasters to hold your deployment zone or even Razorbacks with TL Lascannons. The choice is yours, but I would advise against playing a full assault army in such a shooty edition... ultimately all of the above are expendable tools that you must use to kill whatever you need to kill so that the rest of your army can mop up.

 

Remember.. anything in this game dies in a turn or 2 if the opponent wants it dead! Just make sure your own guys kill more than their cost and you are good to go.

Concise analysis.

 

But this is why i am so disapointed in this codex...look at the investement required in a few units which have tremendous damage output but no staying capability. After that charge you are still looking at a lot of guns aimed at these very units.

Not to mention that this is 4 HQ and a large elite. No troops or anything to allow you to get CP which all these units will use to try and get the damage where it needs to be.

 

This isnt an army...its a one trick poney and its not even a good trick at that.

[Julius Firefocht]

 

Well.. having read through most of the spoilers in detail, here are some units that I think will be the crucial keys to victory, in no particular order:

 

1) Astorath/Your own Chaplain with the Warlord Trait that grants the Fearless aura

 

Reasoning: The Fearless aura is important because it leads into...

 

2) 15 to 20-man blob of JP Death Company with at least 3 Thunder Hammers

 

Reasoning: You want to charge into as many things as you can in your turn. A 20 man blob will cover as much ground as you need and kill most things you need to kill on your Turn 1 charge, while the Fearless aura from the above will ensure that you lose no Death Company to morale checks even if you take massive casualties. So, in order to make your Turn 1 charge, you will need...

 

3) Lemartes

 

Reasoning: This guy combined with the Descent of Angels strategem will give you a very high chance of making the charge on Turn 1. In order to diversify your threats, here is the best Distraction Carnifex in our codex...

 

4) Mephiston

 

Reasoning: Move him up to his maximum speed, cast Wings of Sanguinius to move another 12" and reroll charge distance, and cast Quickening to start blending enemy tanks and high value targets with his S10 Force Sword. Honorable mention goes to....

 

5) Librarian Dreadnoughts

 

Reasoning: Seriously. A flying dreadnought with huge threat radius and access to additional D3 attacks via Quickening? And a Character that cannot be shot at if it is hiding among friendly models? Where else do you get such a bargain?

 

To really seal the deal by offering multiple threats, maybe you want to throw in a squad of TH/SS Terminators to follow up. The rest of the army can consist of Baal Preds, Devastators/Hellblasters to hold your deployment zone or even Razorbacks with TL Lascannons. The choice is yours, but I would advise against playing a full assault army in such a shooty edition... ultimately all of the above are expendable tools that you must use to kill whatever you need to kill so that the rest of your army can mop up.

 

Remember.. anything in this game dies in a turn or 2 if the opponent wants it dead! Just make sure your own guys kill more than their cost and you are good to go.

Concise analysis.

 

But this is why i am so disapointed in this codex...look at the investement required in a few units which have tremendous damage output but no staying capability. After that charge you are still looking at a lot of guns aimed at these very units.

Not to mention that this is 4 HQ and a large elite. No troops or anything to allow you to get CP which all these units will use to try and get the damage where it needs to be.

 

This isnt an army...its a one trick poney and its not even a good trick at that.

 

 

 

I do think it is up to the player to decide how much of a one-trick pony they would like their army to be. For example, I would personally run Astorath and a 15-man JP DC blob with 2 THs and rely on my CP reroll to get the crucial Turn 1 charge off. Add in Mephiston just because he is that useful. We still have access to Shield of Sanguinius for a 5++ on the DC...a 5++ followed up by a 6+++ is quite acceptable to me.

 

The above package should not cost more than 700 points, give or take. 700 points out of 2000 points to deliver a strong punch on Turn 1, and more importantly tie up the opponent's crucial assets so that the other 1300 points of pure dakka (Devs, Hellblasters, Land Raider Crusader, Baal Pred) can get to work and clear as much enemy as they can. It really does not sound so bad.

  

I could also follow up with MSU Tactical Squads in TLLC Razorbacks, with some Assault Marines to grab last min objectives via Wings of Fire.

 

My point is... before this Codex, I could not envision a way to play BA properly. Any army I made with the Blood Angels Index could be literally replicated and improved upon by Codex Space Marines. Now this BA Codex gives us very viable options to do a huge and reliable melee Alpha Strike if we so choose to, while retaining almost all the shooty goodness from Codex Space Marines. I say "almost" because we are still missing Centurions, though that gap is arguably filled by Baal Preds.

 

So forgive me if I cannot understand why there are feelings of dissatisfaction around. The 8th Ed Codex is definitely not perfect (Dante, I am looking at you), but this is quite literally the best we had in the last few editions, so I personally am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Julius Firefocht

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

 

 

 

Well.. having read through most of the spoilers in detail, here are some units that I think will be the crucial keys to victory, in no particular order:

 

1) Astorath/Your own Chaplain with the Warlord Trait that grants the Fearless aura

 

Reasoning: The Fearless aura is important because it leads into...

 

2) 15 to 20-man blob of JP Death Company with at least 3 Thunder Hammers

 

Reasoning: You want to charge into as many things as you can in your turn. A 20 man blob will cover as much ground as you need and kill most things you need to kill on your Turn 1 charge, while the Fearless aura from the above will ensure that you lose no Death Company to morale checks even if you take massive casualties. So, in order to make your Turn 1 charge, you will need...

 

3) Lemartes

 

Reasoning: This guy combined with the Descent of Angels strategem will give you a very high chance of making the charge on Turn 1. In order to diversify your threats, here is the best Distraction Carnifex in our codex...

 

4) Mephiston

 

Reasoning: Move him up to his maximum speed, cast Wings of Sanguinius to move another 12" and reroll charge distance, and cast Quickening to start blending enemy tanks and high value targets with his S10 Force Sword. Honorable mention goes to....

 

5) Librarian Dreadnoughts

 

Reasoning: Seriously. A flying dreadnought with huge threat radius and access to additional D3 attacks via Quickening? And a Character that cannot be shot at if it is hiding among friendly models? Where else do you get such a bargain?

 

To really seal the deal by offering multiple threats, maybe you want to throw in a squad of TH/SS Terminators to follow up. The rest of the army can consist of Baal Preds, Devastators/Hellblasters to hold your deployment zone or even Razorbacks with TL Lascannons. The choice is yours, but I would advise against playing a full assault army in such a shooty edition... ultimately all of the above are expendable tools that you must use to kill whatever you need to kill so that the rest of your army can mop up.

 

Remember.. anything in this game dies in a turn or 2 if the opponent wants it dead! Just make sure your own guys kill more than their cost and you are good to go.

Concise analysis.

 

But this is why i am so disapointed in this codex...look at the investement required in a few units which have tremendous damage output but no staying capability. After that charge you are still looking at a lot of guns aimed at these very units.

Not to mention that this is 4 HQ and a large elite. No troops or anything to allow you to get CP which all these units will use to try and get the damage where it needs to be.

 

This isnt an army...its a one trick poney and its not even a good trick at that.

 

I do think it is up to the player to decide how much of a one-trick pony they would like their army to be. For example, I would personally run Astorath and a 15-man JP DC blob with 2 THs and rely on my CP reroll to get the crucial Turn 1 charge off. Add in Mephiston just because he is that useful. We still have access to Shield of Sanguinius for a 5++ on the DC...a 5++ followed up by a 6+++ is quite acceptable to me.

 

The above package should not cost more than 700 points, give or take. 700 points out of 2000 points to deliver a strong punch on Turn 1, and more importantly tie up the opponent's crucial assets so that the other 1300 points of pure dakka (Devs, Hellblasters, Land Raider Crusader, Baal Pred) can get to work and clear as much enemy as they can. It really does not sound so bad.

 

I could also follow up with MSU Tactical Squads in TLLC Razorbacks, with some Assault Marines to grab last min objectives via Wings of Fire.

 

My point is... before this Codex, I could not envision a way to play BA properly. Any army I made with the Blood Angels Index could be literally replicated and improved upon by Codex Space Marines. Now this BA Codex gives us very viable options to do a huge and reliable melee Alpha Strike if we so choose to, while retaining almost all the shooty goodness from Codex Space Marines. I say "almost" because we are still missing Centurions, though that gap is arguably filled by Baal Preds.

 

So forgive me if I cannot understand why there are feelings of dissatisfaction around. The 8th Ed Codex is definitely not perfect (Dante, I am looking at you), but this is quite literally the best we had in the last few editions, so I personally am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

The reason is results. Whether i use index or codex i will lose. So whats the point of the codex aside for 40-50$ less in my pocket?

 

What we got wont affect the results of the games i play.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Aura bubble characters are great for static or slow moving, shooty units - regardless of our new stratagems they're still AWFUL with assault units. Especially since our army is all 32mm and 40mm based.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I think.

I am thinking it looks like the best codex in a long time for my Blood Angels.

 

Is everything perfect? - Nope.

Is it a huge improvement over what has come lately? - Yep.

Is it an automatic I win button? - probably depends on you and your opponents and your models, missions  etc...

Is it an automatic I lose button? - probably depends on you and your opponents and your models, missions etc...

 

It should lead to a lot of fun games round here where I play.

Mostly it looks like a fresh new lease on life for the army I love, so I am gonna spend the money and have a blast with it myself.

Can't wait to get it in hand and hammer out some fun with my friends.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Well we'll have to see. It does feel a little like the Angels Blade treatment aka: here are tons of cool new things, none of which address the core issues of the army.

 

Aura buff characters for assaulting just suck - that is unless of course you have units of 30+ 25mm gribblies stretched around the board.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Is it an automatic I win button? - probably depends on you and your opponents and your models, missions  etc...

Is it an automatic I lose button? - probably depends on you and your opponents and your models, missions etc...

 

This.

 

BAngels have always been a finesse army and I see no indication that this will ever change.  Rarely have we ever been able to win by simply chucking models at our opponents and hoping we bash them before they table us.  Play to the objectives.  Know the fire lanes and use terrain.  Build your list around these objectives while considering unit synergy, mobility, flexibility, and options.  Consider our options for securing the late game.  Make smart decisions.  Remember to keep your thirst in check brothers, and unleash the urge when the time is right. 

 

This codex isn't necessarily the greatest, but it gives us exactly what we need to get the job done in our own style.  We are extremely mobile (Wings of Fire, Wings of Sanguinius, etc.).  We wound easier in CC.  We have a FNP banner and other useful auras, etc.

[Emissary]

I agree that it is a step up.  I'm really looking forward to it.

 

Personally, what's on my mind is how to get multiple first turn charges via deep strike.  The idea is to be able to wipe out and/or tie up several units and to give my opponent hard choices when it's time to fall back and retaliate then to have stuff left over for the next turn.  I also like to have a firebase or backfield presence to follow up.  

 

Here's my initial thought for a 2,000 point army list (it's approximately that, exact points adjustments when I get the book):

 

Battalion 1

Jump pack librarian with force axe (the quickening and unleash rage)

Jump pack sanguinary priest with thunder hammer

5 tactical marines with lascannon

5 tactical marines with lascannon

5 tactical marines with lascannon

 

Battalion 2

Jump pack captain with thunder hammer and storm shield (+1 damage warlord trait, jump pack relic)

Librarian dreadnought with meltagun (wings and shield)

*Lucius dreadnought drop pod

5 Tactical marines with heavy flamer, sergeant with power sword and combi flamer

*Rhino

5 Intercessors with aux grenade launcher and chainsword

5 Intercessors with aux grenade launcher and chainsword

8 Sanguinary Guard wiith angelius bolt guns and a mix of melee weapons

Death company dreadnought with blood talons, meltagun, storm bolter and magna grapple

*Lucius dreadnought drop pod

Contemptor mortis dreadnought with dual twinlinked lascannons

 

Thoughts and reasoning:

 

1) I've got 4-5 threats that can fairly reliably get into melee turn 1 from the deep strike with only one relying on command points.  The sanguinary guard from descent of angels, the captain from his relic, the dc dread from the magna grapple against vehicles, the librarian from the quickening and the librarian dread from wings of sanguinius.  All of these should have at least a 50% chance to make the charge.  Plus there is the command point reroll available if needed or I can use it after if the sanguinary priest needs it.  This should and cause a lot of problems on my opponents battle line.  This army structure is very similar to the Day of Revelation rite of war Blood Angels I play in 30k.

 

2) I know that the dreadnought drop pod is out of production.  I'm lucky I have 2 from playing blood angels in 30k for over 2 years now.  They do show up from the chinese sellers on ebay every once and awhile and you can find plans on the internet on how to build you own.  The drop in price to 80 points for them has finally made them usable this edition IMO.  Getting both dreadnoughts on top of your opponent early should be awesome.  Similarly, don't underestimate how much real estate the drop pods take up and they can force your opponents to have to deal with them if they want to move past them.

 

3) The magna grapple on the death company dread means it only needs a 7 (around a 64% chance) to charge out of the pod if it's going after a vehicle.  What's nice for it is the 6" pile in.  Usually your opponent will have rhinos or whatever set up at the front to get out there.  It should kill the rhino on the charge (needs 4 wounding hits) and then has a good chance to engage the squad inside.  If they don't have vehicles (like tyranids), well nothing's perfect.  You still can attempt the charge.  If they're hiding the vehicles you can always wait a turn or so for them to spread out then come down.

 

4) The librarian can hunt small squads on his own or help out others.  With 3+d3 attacks with the quickening, he only needs a 6 to charge in but can tie down small squads.  The dread librarian can just move closer with the wings then can move somewhere else fast on the next turn.  Alternatively one can have both the quickening and wings.  Use the wings to fly to a better position then charge in at a different angle or against something you couldn't get to initially because of the 9" deep strike restriction.

 

5) I really think that sanguinary guard are where it's at.  I have the death company also, but can't get over the extra wound and 2+ armor save on them.  Plus they all have awesome weapons.  Something to think about is that charging on a 3d6 not only lets you have a good average charge range, but also lets you have a significantly longer charge range which your opponent may not be ready for.  Also, since the reroll 1 dice stratagem lets you reroll 1 dice on a charge roll, not all of them you can pick out that one bad dice roll in the 3d6.  Hence if you roll a 6,4,1 it can mean you go from a 11" to a 14 or 15" one easily.  With this you can use it to place your chargers so that they may not even be able to fall back or that you can charge multiple units.  

 

In addition I think that the angelus boltgun is going to be awesome with the increased charge range.  2 shots each with a -1ap is no joke especially when you have that warlord with them to reroll their hit rolls (remember, the heirs to azkaellon works for shooting too.)  you can use it to soften up a target, hit another target you don't plan on charging or the thing I think will be best, namely wiping out that bubble wrap.  A little irritated at that infantry screen guarding that basilisk or medusa?  Well, if there is a space between them try sending in the lone librarian and jumping over the screen with wings or a long charge from quickening to just go after the vehicle with that space.  But, if they're right next to the tank, the angelus guns should have enough firepower to seriously thin out the unit to create gaps you can go through to immediately get to the tank.  What's important here is also the increased charge distance through the stratagem.  Having to charge 11" to get to the tank isn't quite the big deal as it was before when you can also reroll 1 charge dice if necessary.

 

Yes, the DC can have bolters for this job too, I just see the angelus as much better at it and helped by the reroll.  Also, I like lemartes, but the fact that you have to reroll all charge dice with him means it's easier for him to make an average charge, but harder to get the really long charges than it is when you just reroll 1 dice.

 

6) The 6 troops choices are pretty much what I have right now.  Scouts can easily be switched in for any of them.  I plan on doing it sometime myself when I get the models.  With the contemptor mortis I still have 7 lascannons which should be enough to threaten tanks and pop open transports for the deep strikers to charge.  Also, I don't care too much if they go first and damage/wipe out a few as there are 6 of them.  If they try something like the alpha legion berserkers infiltrating, sure get your measure of tactical blood, but my deep strike response is coming in a second. 

 

7) This general style of play will be command point intensive as we all can see.  This setup not only gives me significant backfield support and midfield objective taking/holding capability but it also gives me 9 command points which is huge.  With the decreased reliance on decent of angels for several units it should free them up for other things like the redeploy one.  I've considered taking the relic to give me back command points on a 5+, but I'd have to spend a command point to get it as I really like the jump pack relic in this army.  This would mean that to break even the cp relic has to work one time, and has to work twice for me to get anything out of it.  I'm a bad dice roller so it makes me hesitate.

 

8) There is one issue that was surprising for this type of army.  Namely, the requirement for 50% of your stuff to start on the table.  My initial list had something like 9 deep strikers and 4 ones that start on the table.  My big regret for this list currently is not having a sanguinary guard ancient with the relic standard in the list.  Right now, I'm at 8 deep strikers and 8 table starters.  I just can't come up with anything to drop or add to get another deep striker in.  Being a character but not an hq makes it hard to drop anything for him out of the hq deep strikers (and that's 5 of the 8 right there) and the other 3 I feel are more important than the ancient.  I can't find the points for him at the moment. 

 

Anyway, long post.  Thoughts?

Edited December 2, 2017 by Emissary

[Remtek]

Played a game today testing some of the new stuff, not an optimized, list but just wanted to try some stuff out.

 

 

Batallion

Mephiston

Libby Dread

5 Devs 2 LC, Cherub

5 Devs 2 LC, Cherub

5 Devs 2 LC, Cherub

5 Scouts, close combat

5 Scouts, close combat

5 Scouts, close combat  

 

Captain w Jump Pack TH/stormbolter

Sanguinary Priest w Jump pack

Death Company Dread

15 Death Company, JP, 3 Thunderhammers, 4 swords

5 Scouts, close combat

5 Scouts, close combat

5 Scouts, close combat

5 Sanguinary Guard, Glave encarmine, angelus bolter

5 Assault Marines, JP, 2 plasmagun, powersword

 

* Sanguinary Guard - I like these guys a lot now used the 3d6 charge on them, they took out a dread and piled in on some infantry turn 1 without any support char. For less than 200 points they seem solid.

* Death Company - did some pretty good dmg turn 1, but ate a big counter assault. I really like them and work well with unleash rage. I spent 2 CP to save them from moral, did not really miss having a chaplain.

* Captain - This guy was my MVP, early game he buffed up the devs, i gave him visions of sanguinous and the relic hammer. After helping the devs out his ability to re-deploy and charge 3d6 is awsome. He took out a heldrake, a char and some infantry pretty much alone. 

* Scouts - scouts are amazing this edition. I'm so happy i painted up 30 close combat scouts in 7th

* DC Dread - He had issued getting past screens, not a huge fan of this guy still, but he is cheap enough to throw in now. I dont really see them being used in tournaments with great success. 

* Libby Dread - he kinda whiffed his powers most of the game, due to denials and low rolls. Though seems solid.

* Mephiston - Solid for the points, stopped a lot of powers from going off during the game and killed a bunch of infantry.

* Devs took out a heldrake and a hellbrute and actually charged some stuff lategame, i think switching to a chainsword on the sarge might be a good idea, instead of the bolter. 

* Assault marines - They dropped behind a chaos lord and whiffed on the plasma. I  much prefer vanguard, but for filling a brigade they might find their way in some lists.

 

A few impressions

 

I really don't think deep strike + buff chars is the way to go, you really want to go deep with the 3d6 and use fly to pile over things to stay locked in combat. The support characters will probably fail the charge and have issues keeping up. It's also really easy lose your buff chars due to them being so close. 

 

I think every list should include some death company, put them behind some los and if you go first you can really take out a screen quickly. Kinda frustrating that a chaplain wont be able to keep up, i deep struck the priest behind the DC and did some conga-lining so they would wound on 2s. 

 

For tournament play:

These are just my opinions, but so far  it seems a good core build should include. 
1 Psyker, 1 Captain/LT, 3 scouts for stopping enemy deep strikers/alpha legion or similar stuff. 1 DC unit 10-15 and somthing hard hitting in reserve, Sanguinary Guard or Vanguard vets.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Remtek

[Are Verlo]

I have not seen any leaks, but if the terrain is right, I would love to spend 1 CP to advance a DC dread closer to enemy lines.

After turn 1 you can cover 16”+d6” and possibly charge 2d6(+2 vs vehicles). In a perfect situation that is a reach of 29”, and if your DC dread is near lemartes when it charged you can get a reroll

Edited December 2, 2017 by Are Verlo

[Karhedron]

Personally, I prefer 10 SG, Sanguinary Ancient with the 5++, relic JP Librarian and the Sanguinor as Warlord. You got re-rolls, 5++, 5+++. More expensive though, I believe. It also looks far more glorious.

Shield of Sanguinius is pretty much wasted on SG now that it is only a 5++. It only kicks in against Hellblasters and melta weapons. Even against lascannons the SG would be getting a 5+ anyway.

[rayvn26]

I literally never had any issues with my Blood Angels before. I'm 6-0 with games against Chaos, Tau, Knights and Eldar so far. So it seems to me most the people saying they couldn't win them didn't know how to play to start with.

[Morticon]

Has everyone forgotten that opponents can back away from combat or shoot everything at that DS JP charging unit? Thats a dead unit after the first turn.

This is still my biggest concern, tbh. 

 

The idea though, is that at least we can kill what we hit now, rather than whiff at it unspectacularly and then try use other units to provide additional support.  Conscript bubbles will still be a horrible bane, but, at least with a big DC or Vanvet squad, we can massively gimp a squad - can do around 20  unsaved wounds with 10 DC by my calcs - with morale, should wipe it.  

The DC is likely to die to that, though, so.....the rest of the army will need to then layer in, and start dropping in.  This is why I like scouts, multiple reserves, etc.  

[Morticon]

I literally never had any issues with my Blood Angels before. I'm 6-0 with games against Chaos, Tau, Knights and Eldar so far. So it seems to me most the people saying they couldn't win them didn't know how to play to start with.

What's more likely, mate.... 

 

A:  Everyone else in the greater BA community - including those with decades of experience, and multiple tournament wins don't know how to play

 

OR

 

B:  Your friends don't play as well as you do and/or play with sub par lists?

 

 

That being said, please, share your lists and theirs - this kind of knowledge is helpful for the greater community. 

 

Because, at present and the way I saw it,  SM on the whole struggle top-tier competitively or otherwise (and even still) fall into maxed shooty builds as their most competitive  - while index-BA could do something similar but with less bonuses and benefits, and more overpriced unique units that add little to no synergy with the shooting build that 8th demands - creating the problem of having "Red Marine" lists.   

 

BA offered nothing close to what the full power of UM, RavenGuard and Sallies facilitated - or more accurately -it could creep in close in terms of style, but without a host of other bonuses to edge out better, or stronger opponents and without units that made it a thematically or aesthetically BA army.

 

But again, the variables and combinations are in their millions-  so - If you stumbled on a great BA list that you think was representative of the BA fighting style and aesthetic and competitively viable - please, please share!!! 

 

Its only likely to be stronger now.