Competitive BA list discussion *Post-Codex*

[Panzer]

With my T'au I'd kill for a Hunter. The Hammerhead has a slightly better Lascannon with its Railgun and costs about twice as many points. ^^

That being said a single Lascannon shot is far from being overwhelming. You'd need a bunch of those Hunter or some other anti-tank source parallel to it for your anti-tank needs in a list.

Edited December 4, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Sawtooth]

I've always loved scouts, I have a dark compulsion to go crazy with them now thanks to new options and Red Thirst. Must proxy some more and see how it goes. Edited December 4, 2017 by Sawtooth

[Aothaine]

 

Now it's seemingly confirmed as deliberately an option, not just a side effect of clumsy wording in the index, I'm seriously considering picking up a FW pack of Legion Heavy Flamers to pick up to put together as a Devs unit, probably in one of my Razors, either Assault cannons or Heavy Flamers.

I have been wanting to try this, but need more heavy flamers.

 

 

I have a list using almost all flamers in this fashion. I think it is four Dev squads with four heavy flamers each.. .but it was built off the index entirely. I'll have to give it some more thought before dipping further into this. 

 

Still.. I think Heavy Flamers are one of the best weapons in 8th ed. Even better if you can get them onto mobile platforms. Really wish the inceptors had access to flamers of some kind.

[Panzer]

Heavy Flamer Devastators could cover the weakness of Razorbacks having no FLY keyword. Keep shooting with your Razorback and if it gets charged just disembark, fall back and shoot with your Devastators. ^^

Not something I'd do for serious tournaments but seems like a fun and not too terrible thing to do in semi-competetive games. 

[RelentlessPursuit]

How would you guys suggest i run VV at low points games MSU style?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Rumor is scout with cloaks and snipers are now as expensive as intercessors.

[Panzer]

Rumor is scout with cloaks and snipers are now as expensive as intercessors.

I'd be fine with that honestly.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

 

Rumor is scout with cloaks and snipers are now as expensive as intercessors.

I'd be fine with that honestly.

Well you definitely get way more dakka and extra wounds with the latter. I haven't found being able to target characters much more than a scare tactic.

[Indefragable]

 

 

 

Rumor is scout with cloaks and snipers are now as expensive as intercessors.

I'd be fine with that honestly.

Well you definitely get way more dakka and extra wounds with the latter. I haven't found being able to target characters much more than a scare tactic.

Issue with sniper scouts is you need 3+ units of them. That’s when you can reliably plink off support characters. Also, the trick is to go for the characters (looking at you, Commissars) that you know you can kill rather than targeting the Abaddons of the game. It’s those little things that help them turn the tide...when Berzerkers suddenly don’t re-roll To Wound of Orkz don’t get their Painboy, etc...

[redshadow]

This lists is all about the first turn, the plan is to totally bamboozle the opponent with multiple charges, leaving the scout, tacticals and dev’s to score the objective points.

It’s a Brigade so 12 command points, but i’ve used 2 for the extra relic and death vision on the captain, leaving 10 command points left, 2 will be used to take an extra move with the death company, 2 will be used for descent of angels on the sanguinary guard, that leave six for rerolls, honor the chapter or Only in death does duty end.

Mephiston will fly up the field hoping to get a first turn charge, lemarte and the captain will drop in near where i expect the dc to end up then they can all reroll charges, the sanguinary ancient will drop in near with the Sanguinary guard. (it might not be worth taking the ancient as it may not keep up with the sanguinary guard making the standard useless that first turn and the ancient vulnerable, but then i’d need another cheap elites slot to fill out the brigade)

 

Mephiston (175pts)

(wings of Sanguinus, Quickening, Unleash Rage, Smite)

 

Captain (118pts)

(Artizan of war) (Death Visions of Sanguinus) (Veritas Vitae)

w/Thunder Hammer/Jump Pack

 

Lemartes (129pts)

 

Sanguinary Ancient (99pts) (Standard of Sacrifice)

w/Angelus Boltgun/Power Fist

 

8 Sanguinary Guard (280pts)

w/5 Power Fists/3 Encarmine Blade

 

13 Death Company (300pts)

w/Jump Packs/8 Power Axes

 

5 Scouts (55pts)

 

5 Scouts (55pts)

 

5 Scouts (55pts)

 

5 Tactical Marines (77pts)

w/Heavy Bolter/Storm Bolter

 

5 Tactical Marines (77pts)

w/Heavy Bolter/Storm Bolter

 

5 Tactical Marines (77pts)

w/Heavy Bolter/Storm Bolter

 

3 Scout Bikes (77pts)

w/Twin Bolters/Storm Bolter

 

3 Scout Bikes (77pts)

w/Twin Bolters/Storm Bolter

 

3 Scout Bikes (77pts)

w/Twin Bolters/Storm Bolter

 

5 Devastator Marines (90pts)

w/2 Heavy Bolters/Cherub

 

5 Devastator Marines (90pts)

w/2 Heavy Bolters/Cherub

 

5 Devastator Marines (90pts)

w/2 Heavy Bolters/Cherub

[Indefragable]

This lists is all about the first turn, the plan is to totally bamboozle the opponent with multiple charges, leaving the scout, tacticals and dev’s to score the objective points.

It’s a Brigade so 12 command points, but i’ve used 2 for the extra relic and death vision on the captain, leaving 10 command points left, 2 will be used to take an extra move with the death company, 2 will be used for descent of angels on the sanguinary guard, that leave six for rerolls, honor the chapter or Only in death does duty end.

Mephiston will fly up the field hoping to get a first turn charge, lemarte and the captain will drop in near where i expect the dc to end up then they can all reroll charges, the sanguinary ancient will drop in near with the Sanguinary guard. (it might not be worth taking the ancient as it may not keep up with the sanguinary guard making the standard useless that first turn and the ancient vulnerable, but then i’d need another cheap elites slot to fill out the brigade)

 

Mephiston (175pts)

(wings of Sanguinus, Quickening, Unleash Rage, Smite)

 

Captain (118pts)

(Artizan of war) (Death Visions of Sanguinus) (Veritas Vitae)

w/Thunder Hammer/Jump Pack

 

Lemartes (129pts)

 

Sanguinary Ancient (99pts) (Standard of Sacrifice)

w/Angelus Boltgun/Power Fist

 

8 Sanguinary Guard (280pts)

w/5 Power Fists/3 Encarmine Blade

 

13 Death Company (300pts)

w/Jump Packs/8 Power Axes

 

5 Scouts (55pts)

 

5 Scouts (55pts)

 

5 Scouts (55pts)

 

5 Tactical Marines (77pts)

w/Heavy Bolter/Storm Bolter

 

5 Tactical Marines (77pts)

w/Heavy Bolter/Storm Bolter

 

5 Tactical Marines (77pts)

w/Heavy Bolter/Storm Bolter

 

3 Scout Bikes (77pts)

w/Twin Bolters/Storm Bolter

 

3 Scout Bikes (77pts)

w/Twin Bolters/Storm Bolter

 

3 Scout Bikes (77pts)

w/Twin Bolters/Storm Bolter

 

5 Devastator Marines (90pts)

w/2 Heavy Bolters/Cherub

 

5 Devastator Marines (90pts)

w/2 Heavy Bolters/Cherub

 

5 Devastator Marines (90pts)

w/2 Heavy Bolters/Cherub

Quite lean. I like what you were able to squeeze into the Brigade. My concerns are the lack of AT shooting. I know points are razor-thin, but I think you gotta find a way to get some lascannons or something in there. HB/SB Tacs lunch above their weight class, me thinks, especially with OBSEC. Again, I know how hard it is to pull this off in a Brigade, but I think LoS blocking vehicles and/or AT guns is desperately needed.

[Emissary]

Instead of the predator, go contemptor mortis with lascannons. Same price roughly, but 5+ inv and bs2+ with the loss of 2 wounds. Edited December 4, 2017 by Emissary

[redshadow]

 

This lists is all about the first turn, the plan is to totally bamboozle the opponent with multiple charges, leaving the scout, tacticals and dev’s to score the objective points.

It’s a Brigade so 12 command points, but i’ve used 2 for the extra relic and death vision on the captain, leaving 10 command points left, 2 will be used to take an extra move with the death company, 2 will be used for descent of angels on the sanguinary guard, that leave six for rerolls, honor the chapter or Only in death does duty end.

Mephiston will fly up the field hoping to get a first turn charge, lemarte and the captain will drop in near where i expect the dc to end up then they can all reroll charges, the sanguinary ancient will drop in near with the Sanguinary guard. (it might not be worth taking the ancient as it may not keep up with the sanguinary guard making the standard useless that first turn and the ancient vulnerable, but then i’d need another cheap elites slot to fill out the brigade)

 

Mephiston (175pts)

(wings of Sanguinus, Quickening, Unleash Rage, Smite)

 

Captain (118pts)

(Artizan of war) (Death Visions of Sanguinus) (Veritas Vitae)

w/Thunder Hammer/Jump Pack

 

Lemartes (129pts)

 

Sanguinary Ancient (99pts) (Standard of Sacrifice)

w/Angelus Boltgun/Power Fist

 

8 Sanguinary Guard (280pts)

w/5 Power Fists/3 Encarmine Blade

 

13 Death Company (300pts)

w/Jump Packs/8 Power Axes

 

5 Scouts (55pts)

 

5 Scouts (55pts)

 

5 Scouts (55pts)

 

5 Tactical Marines (77pts)

w/Heavy Bolter/Storm Bolter

 

5 Tactical Marines (77pts)

w/Heavy Bolter/Storm Bolter

 

5 Tactical Marines (77pts)

w/Heavy Bolter/Storm Bolter

 

3 Scout Bikes (77pts)

w/Twin Bolters/Storm Bolter

 

3 Scout Bikes (77pts)

w/Twin Bolters/Storm Bolter

 

3 Scout Bikes (77pts)

w/Twin Bolters/Storm Bolter

 

5 Devastator Marines (90pts)

w/2 Heavy Bolters/Cherub

 

5 Devastator Marines (90pts)

w/2 Heavy Bolters/Cherub

 

5 Devastator Marines (90pts)

w/2 Heavy Bolters/Cherub

Quite lean. I like what you were able to squeeze into the Brigade. My concerns are the lack of AT shooting. I know points are razor-thin, but I think you gotta find a way to get some lascannons or something in there. HB/SB Tacs lunch above their weight class, me thinks, especially with OBSEC. Again, I know how hard it is to pull this off in a Brigade, but I think LoS blocking vehicles and/or AT guns is desperately needed.

 

The captain will take out anything like a knight or heavily armoured unit, the DC, sanguinary guard and can also put in work and move on, I'll test it and find out

[Karhedron]

Instead of the predator, go contemptor mortis with lascannons. Same price roughly, but 5+ inv and bs2+ with the loss of 2 wounds.

Fine as long as your meta is OK with Forgeworld.

[Frater Cornelius]

If you want a cheaper Brigade, try single Tarantula Turrets with Twin HB for the FA slot. That is 37pts a pop, 111pts total. It'll save you quite a bit ;) Plus, they can score and most of the time they aren't important enough to shoot.

[Remtek]

A note on Death Company damage potential.

 

There is a strat that gives you bonus attacks on 6s to hit. Astorath has a mass of doom ability that give units +1 to hit, so you would be getting bonus hits on a 5+. So with Unleash Rage and Sanguinor you could be pushing around 125 attacks on avg. Then burn 3 CP and do another round with the same buffs and push over 250  attacks with one unit.

Stacking that many chars for one trick might be a bit overkill, but Astorath afaik is the only way to get +1 to hit, some good synergi potential there. 

[Are Verlo]

Does Corbulo’s grail work as in the Index? If so, does it stack with the stratagem Remtek is refering to?

 

That would be nasty if you ever manage to stack the buffs right...

[Morticon]

A note on Death Company damage potential.

 

There is a strat that gives you bonus attacks on 6s to hit. Astorath has a mass of doom ability that give units +1 to hit, so you would be getting bonus hits on a 5+. So with Unleash Rage and Sanguinor you could be pushing around 125 attacks on avg. Then burn 3 CP and do another round with the same buffs and push over 250  attacks with one unit.

Stacking that many chars for one trick might be a bit overkill, but Astorath afaik is the only way to get +1 to hit, some good synergi potential there. 

15x 6 = 90 attacks - max. And you need Sanguinor and a Libby to pull it off. 

 

Not sure about the strat that gives you bonus attacks on 6s to hit. Though Cobulo's ability does something similar. 

 

Also, what 3 CP burn for "another round with the same buffs" are you talking about??

[Are Verlo]

I think Remtek is talking about ”for the honour of the chapter”. 3 CP, pile in and fight again.

 

Edit: I think I have read somewhere that the 6’s to hit generates a new attack only works vs the black legion??

Edited December 5, 2017 by Are Verlo

[Remtek]

I think Remtek is talking about ”for the honour of the chapter”. 3 CP, pile in and fight again.

 

Edit: I think I have read somewhere that the 6’s to hit generates a new attack only works vs the black legion??

 

Its 6's to hit generate extra attacks (against black legion you generate attacks on a 4+ to hit.)

 

From Codex reviewers they have confirmed we get to fight twice for 3 CP. 

[Karhedron]

Probably not going to be necessary to apply all those buffs that often but nice to have the option if you really want to make 2 x 50-man infantry blobs disappear in a single round of combat. 

[Morticon]

Whaaaat?! That was legit? O_o 

 

Not too shabby!! 

 

Though, for 3 CP ><; 

[Remtek]

Whaaaat?! That was legit? O_o 

 

Not too shabby!! 

 

Though, for 3 CP ><; 

 

Aye, 3CP is a bit pricy, but nice to have in your backpocket

 

Here are the other strats:

• Vengeance for Sanguinius 1CP: Used in the Fight phase when one of your units fights. For each hit roll of a 6+, you generate one additional attack. If fighting against Black Legion units, you generate additional attacks on a 4+.
• Red Rampage 1CP : +1d3 attacks to a character charging.

Source: blood of kittens

 

Edit: Something more realistic: unleash rage / pop the exploding 6 strat and have some sort of re-roll char. 15x5 then probably 13-14 bonus attacks in addition. 

Or in a gunline: (counter assault unit)

Corbs + strat and an ancient, then have 10 vanguard in a rhino and a Captain with jump pack moving from gunline to vanguard.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Remtek

[CrimsonExarch]

So after a fair bit of thinking this is the the first draft of a potentially competitive pure BA list post-codex release....

I have 150 points left to spend. Veritas Vitae will be taken on the backline captain and the Ancient will take the Banner of Sacrifice.

 

- scouts deny alpha strike/screen/help clear screens or cap objectives.

 

-Tac marines/preds castle up in cover and provide fire support with the captain aura giving reroll 1s to hit.

 

- DC use forlorn fury strat to apply pressure. Lemartes deep strikes at the end of the movement phase to give rerolls to charge.

 

-Sang guard, priest, Sanguinor and Ancient act as a death star with Descent of Angels strat going on the Guard blob and looking to tie up as many exposed units as possible.

 

What do you guys think of this? I think running 2 batallions is a necessity for us now or we'll end up being starved for CP.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by CrimsonExarch

[Pendent]

I've been listening to the Forge the Narrative podcast and they have me really excited for Dreadnoughts with Blood Talons. They'll still be relatively cheap (170ish?) and reroll both hits and wounds. Even if they don't make it into combat they'll draw enough fire from our opponents to make the cost worth it.