Black Library Advent Calendar 2017

[DarkChaplain]

Thanks for the confirmation of that suspicion I had, m0nolith. I forgot to bring that up earlier in my ramblings. I don't own the HH Black Books, so I couldn't confirm it myself, but the way that particular scene went gave me the idea too.

[m0nolith]

Thanks for the confirmation of that suspicion I had, m0nolith. I forgot to bring that up earlier in my ramblings. I don't own the HH Black Books, so I couldn't confirm it myself, but the way that particular scene went gave me the idea too.

Indeed.

Up until now I had always thought that Amendera Kendel was the author of the black books, but now I'm happy to know the whats (probably) the truth.

[Calas Typhon]

 

i kinda get that...but if you want to discuss a subject with others, then context is just gonna happen as a by product. that probably can't be avoided

 

if you're just here to blow off steam and not entertain other thoughts...all good too.

 

In this case, I was directly referring to these lines by DarkChaplain

 

 

We've had a LOT of cases recently were people would get irrationally upset about some cliffnote spoilers, just one small paragraph from a full 400 page novel, and go on and on about how it is outrageous, it's unfair, and once again this stuff is happening. It's like context doesn't exist for you people, and nor does actually experiencing the subject matter yourselves before passing full judgement.

I was trying to explain that I in this case was not getting upset about the events in the audiobook spoilers but because it had no relevance to the Primarch series and that it just comes across as a story to put some more 'is it lies or truth?' into the heresy. 

 

The thread is about releases during the Advent Sub event. I was simply saying my piece on it and responding to someone referring to one of my posts so its not really blowing off steam. 

 

If I wanted to do that, I would go into more detail about false advertising a Primarch short when it should definitely not be one.

[DarkChaplain]

As you may have noticed, I also thought that billing it as a Primarchs story wasn't a good thing (though I was pleasantly surprised to be getting a Malcador audio drama here), especially as it is set during the Siege and does not feature any of them directly. 

[mc warhammer]

 

 

i kinda get that...but if you want to discuss a subject with others, then context is just gonna happen as a by product. that probably can't be avoided

 

if you're just here to blow off steam and not entertain other thoughts...all good too.

 

In this case, I was directly referring to these lines by DarkChaplain

 

 

We've had a LOT of cases recently were people would get irrationally upset about some cliffnote spoilers, just one small paragraph from a full 400 page novel, and go on and on about how it is outrageous, it's unfair, and once again this stuff is happening. It's like context doesn't exist for you people, and nor does actually experiencing the subject matter yourselves before passing full judgement.

I was trying to explain that I in this case was not getting upset about the events in the audiobook spoilers but because it had no relevance to the Primarch series and that it just comes across as a story to put some more 'is it lies or truth?' into the heresy. 

 

The thread is about releases during the Advent Sub event. I was simply saying my piece on it and responding to someone referring to one of my posts so its not really blowing off steam. 

 

If I wanted to do that, I would go into more detail about false advertising a Primarch short when it should definitely not be one.

 

 

 

gotcha. it's more about the decision to release a non primarch story as a primarch story?

 

even then, i imagine there's some context that would be interesting to hear more about from BL. i wonder what the reasoning is? is it just to "fool" the buyers? idk

[Calas Typhon]

As you may have noticed, I also thought that billing it as a Primarchs story wasn't a good thing (though I was pleasantly surprised to be getting a Malcador audio drama here), especially as it is set during the Siege and does not feature any of them directly. 

Don't worry, I got you. Not trying to tear your throat out here, just explaining myself.

 

gotcha. it's more about the decision to release a non primarch story as a primarch story?

 

even then, i imagine there's some context that would be interesting to hear more about from BL. i wonder what the reasoning is? is it just to "fool" the buyers? idk

Thats my main problem at the moment. Its obviously a Heresy tale, but It has Primarch Artwork made up for it. Perhaps there should have either been another short there that for whatever reason was not put in, and so they pulled something out of a hat which kind of fits the bill. Or for whatever reason Black Library thought this was a great Primarch Story?

 

I would have actually put in a subscription for the Advent for the heresy and Primarchs but worrying things like this would happen was the reason I did not. I am pretty happy to be honest.

[Carach]

not sure what the drama is with the malcador audio.

 

seemed fine to me and pretty straight forward

[nagashnee]

The point some people seem to miss is this, when you have the Primarch series, which focuses on the Primarchs, and then start labelling things like Malcadors audio drama under it, doubly in this case which advertised 1 primarch feature in advance but did not name it. You are going to have some people feel cheated. Add to this the fact that the otherwise excellent story was ultimately meaningless, that is to say can easily be hand waved in any future story as just lies that feeling of being cheated is doubled.  Now you might say anything can be hand waved, but i feel we can all agree this was SPECIFICALLY set up to be easily confirmed or denied at any point in the future.

 

 

For me the whole issue could have been avoided if they just avoided the Primarch series banner. And instead sold it on its own merit. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Captain Kain

[rookie40K]

If you play the audio drama backwards it clearly states Malcador is a Thunder Primarch, which sort of qualifies it as part of the Primarch Series.

[Guest Triszin]

If you play the audio drama backwards it clearly states Malcador is a Thunder Primarch, which sort of qualifies it as part of the Primarch Series.

and that means Malcador was just anotehr warlord on Terra until the Emperor approached him.

 

Malcador is a proto primarch and his legion was the thunder warriors! /j

[Mantras]

My view - the Primarch's sub series of the Horus Heresy line deals with story specifically relating to insights of the Primarchs. It is loosely set in the 30k era (given that's when they were all around) but is not limited to a single time period (For example, the well received Leman Russ book is set some time after Horus is defeated and flashes back to the GC).

 

The revelation of the Primarch project's intentions for me qualifies this to sit within the series.

[Calas Typhon]

AFAIA The reason why the Primarch series was brought in was to bring forth some of the stories of the Primarchs and fill in the backgrounds to stop bloating the Horus Heresy series too much so its filled with events rather than lots of backstory. Rather than making them put forward loose ends of why they were all created and some stuff about Malcador and the Emperor.

 

I am sorry, I can't see in anyway how this could be part of the Primarch series other than an event in the Audio.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Warsmith Kroeger

[veterannoob]

HOLY :cuss! Malcador was amazing! What a great treat, glad I finally started getting caught up this morning.

[Sandlemad]

The status of the audio as primarch series or not primarch series seems like very small beer to argue about. It's literally just a marketing classification. Primarch books have had post-heresy subject matter and the main course of heresy books have had works that would fit better as primarch stories. BL has just published a Space Marines Conquests series book (Devastation of Baal) that is a de-facto sequel to Dante, a book from the Space Marines Lords/Heroes/Legends/'whatever the hell the name is currently' series.

 

These classifications are just ephemeral sales-driven ways of grouping books and complaining about it is like complaining about which shelf stuff goes on in a supermarket. If you are capable of finding the download and reading the text on the website, you're capable of realising that this is a story about Malcador. There is no reason that you can't judge it on its own merits already.

[Calas Typhon]

Well you cant tell that its a story about Malcador rather than a Primarch prior to its release, If you were like me and going to buy a sub for the Primarch shorts, you aint getting a Primarch drama about a Primarch. which is pretty damn wrong to me.

 

Being in or out of the Heresy does not matter at all as long as its about a Primarch. Hell, it could be how a Primarch is going missing 100 years after the Heresy told  by some human on a far distant world who once saw a Legionary when he went to town once, and I would not mind. When it does not focus on a Primarch and focuses on something completely different for the points stated many times, it becomes a problem to me.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Warsmith Kroeger

[Sandlemad]

Fair enough but I think the population of folks who would drop £50 blind for three primarch audios - pick a primarch, any primarch, as long as it's a primarch - is pretty small. It's pretty much a third AoS, a third 40k and a third heresy related stuff, any of which could be about subjects or factions the buyer doesn't care about. The subscription's not a good deal regardless.

 

EDIT: I get the frustration dude but none of classification/advertising stuff is a mark against the story itself, any more than a bad cover or an ugly font is. Probably less of a mark against it than a bad voice actor.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Sandlemad

[Calas Typhon]

Fair enough but I think the population of folks who would drop £50 blind for three primarch audios - pick a primarch, any primarch, as long as it's a primarch - is pretty small. It's pretty much a third AoS, a third 40k and a third heresy related stuff, any of which could be about subjects or factions the buyer doesn't care about. The subscription's not a good deal regardless.

 

EDIT: I get the frustration dude but none of classification/advertising stuff is a mark against the story itself, any more than a bad cover or an ugly font is. Probably less of a mark against it than a bad voice actor.

Sorry, I was not too clear, I would have liked all the Stories in it as AoS/Warhammer is alright to read and listen to too. But Primarchs, 40k and Heresy shorts would be mainly what I want. I would have read and listened to it all. 

 

I just quickly want to say, as it seems people think I am knocking the story and Audioshort. I am sure the story is very well done and produced brilliantly, not knocking that.  My only problem is that the story seems to be introduced to chuck more lies and truth to split between, I personally don't want any more of that when it does not really serve a purpose other than stirring the pot. I would probably like the piece when I get to downloading it.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Warsmith Kroeger

[MrDarth151]

Meh. That is precisely how I feel about the Malcador story.

 

Really, it's stuff like this that kills my hope that the ending to the Heresy storyline will be in any way satisfying.

[mc warhammer]

Fair enough but I think the population of folks who would drop £50 blind for three primarch audios - pick a primarch, any primarch, as long as it's a primarch - is pretty small. It's pretty much a third AoS, a third 40k and a third heresy related stuff, any of which could be about subjects or factions the buyer doesn't care about. The subscription's not a good deal regardless.

 

EDIT: I get the frustration dude but none of classification/advertising stuff is a mark against the story itself, any more than a bad cover or an ugly font is. Probably less of a mark against it than a bad voice actor.

yeah the rationale seems to be “revelations about primarchs”. marketing people...what can you do?

 

still, i think the title “malcador” should be enough of a give away for wary buyers?

[Marshal Rohr]

Meh. That is precisely how I feel about the Malcador story.

 

Really, it's stuff like this that kills my hope that the ending to the Heresy storyline will be in any way satisfying.

The last book of the Heresy will end with ‘and then John Grammaticus woke up, and knew it was all a dream.’

[MrDarth151]

 

Meh. That is precisely how I feel about the Malcador story.

 

Really, it's stuff like this that kills my hope that the ending to the Heresy storyline will be in any way satisfying.

The last book of the Heresy will end with ‘and then John Grammaticus woke up, and knew it was all a dream.’

 

 

Followed by '... Or was it?'

 

This starting to become slightly obnoxious at this point.

 

Also!

 

This is yet another story in which the point is made of Primarchs being tools to be manipulated by the Emperor. I am starting to severely doubt the claims that the portrayal of the guy is supposed to not be defined, like ADB said, when GW is pushing it for third story straight.

 

And you know, there is also the fact that I find that interpretation to be poor storytelling in the first place, but hey.

[D3L]

 

 

This starting to become slightly obnoxious at this point.

 

Well, some authors have a track record of that

Edited December 16, 2017 by D3L

[Scribe]

 

Meh. That is precisely how I feel about the Malcador story.

 

Really, it's stuff like this that kills my hope that the ending to the Heresy storyline will be in any way satisfying.

The last book of the Heresy will end with ‘and then John Grammaticus woke up, and knew it was all a dream.’

Spoilers: The Emperor is wounded unto death, installed on the throne he intended for Magnus to be bound to, and suffers for Eternity.

 

I mean the broad strokes have been with us forever, what do people expect?

 

'no guys really there is still hope, don't plug me in!'

 

Much like MoM I don't see the issue.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

Meh. That is precisely how I feel about the Malcador story.

 

Really, it's stuff like this that kills my hope that the ending to the Heresy storyline will be in any way satisfying.

The last book of the Heresy will end with ‘and then John Grammaticus woke up, and knew it was all a dream.’

Spoilers: The Emperor is wounded unto death, installed on the throne he intended for Magnus to be bound to, and suffers for Eternity.

 

I mean the broad strokes have been with us forever, what do people expect?

 

'no guys really there is still hope, don't plug me in!'

 

Much like MoM I don't see the issue.

 

 

The issue is the 'its not true' part. Is the Emperor on the throne and not a shard of Magnus? We dont know because Master of Mankind wasn't actually real, it was lie by Alum Karpin. 

[b1soul]

No, MoM is Diocletian's feverish hallucinations

 

I'm not going to lose sleep if BL declares that the HH novels are in-universe texts...just not a big fan of the idea. With regard to continuity, it's a convenient get-out-of-jail card.

 

As a fan, I personally dislike the idea. Reminds me of what Frank Herbert's son (Brian Herbert) did, i.e. declared that the original Dune novel by Frank is in-universe propaganda by Irulan, to justify inconsistencies with his own subsequent works set during the same period.

 

My personal preference is for the majority of the works covering a setting to be out-of-universe texts that accurately, for the most part, portray the setting. Unreliable narrators and in-universe texts certainly have a place to enhance certain mysteries, but I prefer for these not to form the bulk of the body of work. Frankly, I'm not sure what the value of making the entire HH series or BL portfolio in-universe/unreliable is. The only obvious function is to grant authours more room to offer contradicting takes.