How would Sanguinius's return be explained?

[Scribe]

 

I'll never understand the need to change things from what they are, when those things have been good for decades.

 

Sanguinus has purpose in being dead. There is no need to revert or change the circumstances around his death for it to have resonance down through the decades.

 

I mean I know ADB was cracking a joke, everyone should know that he's poking the bear that is the wildly misunderstanding 40K Fan...but no the Emperor wont cut down Sanguinius...or I'll boil down a book, and eat it.

 

Small but vital note: I didn't crack the joke. I just said that I guarantee someone out there believes the joke that the good marshal cracked.

 

 

Is that better, or worse....:p

[RandomMarine]

For me only 3 primarchs are gone for good the 2,11 and Horus. Imo primarchs are warp entities as well as corporal ones and we have 1 confirmed to have survived the death of his body "Magnus" post prospero is a pure warp entity and we have Ferrus haunting fulgrim from beyond the grave which might just be in fulgrim head but who knows for sure.

[BitsHammer]

Yeah, the Emperor basically detonated Horus' soul, and considering the chaos gods haven't tried (or tried and failed) over the last 10k years to put his soul back together that's one Humpty Dumpty whose staying dead.

 

Sanguinius on the other hand only had his body killed, his soul can definitely live and fight on (and it's likely why the Black Rage seems so present among his sons, his soul is likely still experiencing those last hours aboard Horus' ship).

[Dantay VI]

So by that meaning, The headless bro's Curze & Ferrus could come back, along with Sanguinius & Dorn (whose hand was only ever found) could all still come back.

 

Didn't Khayon shatter Sanguinius' crstalline psychic echo on the Vengeful Spirit to create a fearsome weapon?

 

Horus was successfully cloned as was Ferrus (multiple times by Fabius Bile) if I recall.

[RandomMarine]

Yeah everyone but Horus and the other to could come back , primarchs who physically died could come back as warp entities choas or order. Ferrus has already kinda come back as a psychic revenant in MoM.

 

 

Or a out there idea primarch soul shoveled into a clone body. The primarch clones where seen to be missing something and where significantly weaker than

An the original maybe due to the lack of that soul

Edited January 9, 2018 by RandomMarine

[BitsHammer]

Cloning Horus' body isn't the same as bringing his soul back.

 

And someone should give Dorn a hand so he can come back sooner (I actually kind of think he's currently being held by the Iron Warriors so Perturabo can torture him with information regarding the deaths of the Sons of Dorn).

 

That said, Sanguinius literally lives on in his sons seeing as those who fall into the Black Rage think they are him fighting through Horus' ship, even damaging a part of him in the Warp wouldn't be enough to stop him coming back. Plus let's be honest, adding in the amount of prayer he gets from the citizens of the Imperium, he might even be at minor warp god status at this point (kind of like the Imperium's version of Khorn and Khaine) at this point.

[RandomMarine]

Also I've always liked the theory that sanguinor is actually the angel of rage schizophrenic other half caused by meros's grief

[Spinsanity]

and we have Ferrus [...] in Fulgrim's head

Ohh the, ahem, Irony! 

[BitsHammer]

 

and we have Ferrus [...] in Fulgrim's head

Ohh the, ahem, Irony! 

 

Fulgrim seems to host parties in his skull considering the number of things that have been in there. :P

[Guest Triszin]

Dorn comes back...

 

with Ferrus's transplanted hands

[Lexington]

Plus let's be honest, adding in the amount of prayer he gets from the citizens of the Imperium, he might even be at minor warp god status at this point (kind of like the Imperium's version of Khorn and Khaine) at this point.

Lots of developers have personal passion projects, and mine is the creation of some kind of application that scans forums and other social media for people stating that prayers and/or belief creates gods in 40K, and auto-posts "that's not how the warp works, damnit" in response.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Lexington

[Spinsanity]

Lots of developers have personal passion projects, and mine is the creation of some kind of application that scans forums and other social media for people stating that prayers and/or belief creates gods in 40K, and auto-posts "that's not how the warp works, damnit" in response.

And why is it that your head-cannon is in any way more valid than Fulkes' ?

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

Plus let's be honest, adding in the amount of prayer he gets from the citizens of the Imperium, he might even be at minor warp god status at this point (kind of like the Imperium's version of Khorn and Khaine) at this point.

Lots of developers have personal passion projects, and mine is the creation of some kind of application that scans forums and other social media for people stating that prayers and/or belief creates gods in 40K, and auto-posts "that's not how the warp works, damnit" in response.

 

 

It really kinda is though, at least according to the Liber Chaotica, and some of the old Warriors of Chaos books from Fantasy. Also, it doesn't have to be conscious prayer, as seen by the birth of Slaanesh.

[Lexington]

It really kinda is though, at least according to the Liber Chaotica, and some of the old Warriors of Chaos books from Fantasy. Also, it doesn't have to be conscious prayer, as seen by the birth of Slaanesh.

 

Well, kinda. The "belief = power" thing is pretty widespread in other fantasy settings, but 40K's concept of warp gods has some subtle but notable differences, and I get irked when the two are conflated.

 

Chaos gods have never, to my knowledge, been created or sustained by prayer or simple personal dedication - they're, essentially, self-perpetuating abstract concepts/emotional reactions with what might sort of be called a consciousness. They arise because those concepts end up so prevalent in the material universe that their reflection in the Immaterium goes supernova. No one needs to pray to or believe in or dedicate themselves to Slaanesh or Khorne or even Gork and Mork - they just exist, so long as their base concept also exists and thrives out in the mortal lands. You could cut down every follower of Khorne with some giant galactic weed-whacker, but you'd just make him stronger in the process - he's famously neutral on where the blood flows from, after all.

 

(this'll be my last post on the topic as not to derail the thread)

Edited January 9, 2018 by Lexington

[Scribe]

 

Lots of developers have personal passion projects, and mine is the creation of some kind of application that scans forums and other social media for people stating that prayers and/or belief creates gods in 40K, and auto-posts "that's not how the warp works, damnit" in response.

And why is it that your head-cannon is in any way more valid than Fulkes' ?

Loose canon. Yay.

 

Edit: to be clear, 'loose canon' renders discussion pointless, if we are going to claim head canon, actually has merit, all this thread is, is textual masturbation, a solo act of 'well I think this, and it's irrelevant what others or actual lore states'.

 

An utter waste of time.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Scribe

[chamberlainskeksil]

I like the whole returning as a warp angel sort of a thing.  Maybe along with the legion of the damned, dead imperial saints and so on.  Like an imperial daemon faction (though he would also be Blood Angels of course).  Maybe a faction about being Imperial Martyrs.

Edited January 10, 2018 by chamberlainskeksil

[Spyros]

Rob was never dead, and this new Eldar chick had comical 'for the plot' powers that had no business existing anyway.

 

In the end, yeah GW can do whatever, but I would rather they not.

 

RG was indeed put in stasis alive, just before succumbing to the poison and dying.

 

HOWEVER:

"Yvraine spoke up, explaining her presence at this seminal moment. She was the Emissary of Ynnead, the God of the Dead, and her powers would be vital to Guilliman’s restoration. Reading the puzzlement on her audience’s features, Yvraine explained with sharp impatience that such a miracle could not be brought about without sacrifice. Cawl had laboured long and hard to fulfil the Primarch’s request, but without Ynnead’s aid, the fruits of that labour would not be enough. In order for Roboute Guilliman to live once more, first he must die." 

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

Rob was never dead, and this new Eldar chick had comical 'for the plot' powers that had no business existing anyway.

 

In the end, yeah GW can do whatever, but I would rather they not.

RG was indeed put in stasis alive, just before succumbing to the poison and dying.

 

HOWEVER:

"Yvraine spoke up, explaining her presence at this seminal moment. She was the Emissary of Ynnead, the God of the Dead, and her powers would be vital to Guilliman’s restoration. Reading the puzzlement on her audience’s features, Yvraine explained with sharp impatience that such a miracle could not be brought about without sacrifice. Cawl had laboured long and hard to fulfil the Primarch’s request, but without Ynnead’s aid, the fruits of that labour would not be enough. In order for Roboute Guilliman to live once more, first he must die."

That sounds like fan fiction. Is that from Warhammer Wiki?

[Spyros]

 

 

Rob was never dead, and this new Eldar chick had comical 'for the plot' powers that had no business existing anyway.

 

 

 

That sounds like fan fiction. Is that from Warhammer Wiki?

 

 

It's from Gathering Storm 3: Rise of the Primarch... which goes to show the poor writing from GW.

[Marshal Rohr]

Mother of god

[Urriak Urruk]

 

Plus let's be honest, adding in the amount of prayer he gets from the citizens of the Imperium, he might even be at minor warp god status at this point (kind of like the Imperium's version of Khorn and Khaine) at this point.

Lots of developers have personal passion projects, and mine is the creation of some kind of application that scans forums and other social media for people stating that prayers and/or belief creates gods in 40K, and auto-posts "that's not how the warp works, damnit" in response.

 

 

http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/THATS-NOT-HOW-THE-FORCE-WORKS.gif

[Scribe]

Yvraine stuff has always been looked at by me with fear. I think is the sneakily worst fluff ever done.

 

It's just not covered as much here due to forum focus.

[A D-B]

 

 

Lots of developers have personal passion projects, and mine is the creation of some kind of application that scans forums and other social media for people stating that prayers and/or belief creates gods in 40K, and auto-posts "that's not how the warp works, damnit" in response.

And why is it that your head-cannon is in any way more valid than Fulkes' ?

Loose canon. Yay.

 

Edit: to be clear, 'loose canon' renders discussion pointless, if we are going to claim head canon, actually has merit, all this thread is, is textual masturbation, a solo act of 'well I think this, and it's irrelevant what others or actual lore states'.

 

An utter waste of time.

 

That's not what loose canon is, though. That's how people that dislike or misunderstand the idea treat it, but it's not what it is.

[Scribe]

 

 

 

Lots of developers have personal passion projects, and mine is the creation of some kind of application that scans forums and other social media for people stating that prayers and/or belief creates gods in 40K, and auto-posts "that's not how the warp works, damnit" in response.

And why is it that your head-cannon is in any way more valid than Fulkes' ?

Loose canon. Yay.

 

Edit: to be clear, 'loose canon' renders discussion pointless, if we are going to claim head canon, actually has merit, all this thread is, is textual masturbation, a solo act of 'well I think this, and it's irrelevant what others or actual lore states'.

 

An utter waste of time.

 

That's not what loose canon is, though. That's how people that dislike or misunderstand the idea treat it, but it's not what it is.

 

 

No, you are right, its the difference between 'Head Canon' and 'Loose Canon'. I popped off because to question Lex, makes me pop off. :p

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

 

Lots of developers have personal passion projects, and mine is the creation of some kind of application that scans forums and other social media for people stating that prayers and/or belief creates gods in 40K, and auto-posts "that's not how the warp works, damnit" in response.

And why is it that your head-cannon is in any way more valid than Fulkes' ?

Loose canon. Yay.

 

Edit: to be clear, 'loose canon' renders discussion pointless, if we are going to claim head canon, actually has merit, all this thread is, is textual masturbation, a solo act of 'well I think this, and it's irrelevant what others or actual lore states'.

 

An utter waste of time.

That's not what loose canon is, though. That's how people that dislike or misunderstand the idea treat it, but it's not what it is.

Isn’t loose canon the mutual validity of published sources or right to ignore published sources for the sake of narrative, while head canon is a personal interpretation of published sources or entirely original in-universe information?

 

To use non-controversial examples: the captain of the Ultramarines Second Company is subject to loose canon, but my Captain Burly McCodpiece is headcanon?

 

So Yvraines statement Guilliman would need to die would be subject to loose canon but my choice not to consider Gathering Storm as the events that happen would be headcanon. If my train of thought is correct. That’s how I interpreted the original Loose Canon piece any way.