Ashes of Prospero: discussion (spoilers)

[Guest Triszin]

posted in the Space wolf sub section

I do believe (and hope, I admit) that Leman Russ will be the next loyalist Primarch.

 

But if you're waiting for Ashes of Prospero to give you some hints, you're mistaken. I was lucky enough to have a friend of mine at the black library weekender and he brought me back Ashes of Prospero.

 

I read it and there are quite a few new things for the Space Wolves fluffwise but we can expect also some changes for the codex and maybe for the Imperium at large.

 

I'm going to spoil the content of the book, so, if you don't want to, do not read my message.

 

This book follows the events described in Inferno and the audio book "The Thirteenth Wolf"

 

This book takes place after the Crusade Indomitus. The Space Wolves are hard pressed to answer to all the calls of help and assistance that they received. Logan asks Njal to do some divinations in the hope to find Leman Russ. Njal doesn't find anything but he's drawn to Prospero.

 

Logan decides to send a little force of Space Wolves to Prospero under Njal's command. After some skirmishes on Prospero against the cultists of Magnus and then in the network of portals, the SW of Njal find the survivors of the XIII Great Company trapped in the network of portals. In the meantime, Njal discovers the reason why Magnus has returned to Prospero : he plans to use the network of portals to rid the daemons of the necessity of a warp rift to appear in the real world. he would have an infinite army and also more powerful.

 

After some exchange of greetings, reconnaissance of their brothers and negociations, the survivors of the XIIIth, follow the SW of Njal out of the network.

There are 200 survivors with their 30k arsenal : Stormbird, thunderhawk, spartans, predators... with their Wolf lord Bulveye at the head.

 

Njal orders its cruiser to bombard Prospero. And the book ends like this.

 

So for me,we have a lot of things fluff wise :

 

- The SW will be the only chapter to have real marines 30k with them.

- They will have a strange mix of SW 40k, SW 30k and Primaris.

- Who is going to lead the chapter : Logan or Bulveye?

- there are some clashs in the book when the marines 30k discover the Horus heresy, and the way of their brethren of 40k compared to the Imperial truth of 30k.

 

- Leman Russ is absolutely not seen nor do we have a hint of its return in the book.

 

- Some Chaos Primarchs are mentionned : Angron, Fulgrim and Lorgar

 

For me the fact that Leman Russ is not mentionned and that the book ends very abruptly is a sign that something is coming.

 

I think that we'll have a summer campaign opposing the SW against the TS for the control of these portals. Even if it's, or because maybe, a revenge for the events of Curse of the Wulfen and Wrath of Magnus.

 

It's the perfect occasion to bring back Leman Russ after the rediscovery of his 13th Company which we know, he has a particular bond with them.

 

And for us, players, we will be perfectly free to use our 40k and 30k models in our future army.

Just imagine access to Cataphractiis, tartaros, Stormbirds, Spartans...

 

So, what do you think of all this?

 

 

SO this sounds extremely interesting, I personally enjoyed the Thirteenth wolf, and for this to tie into the recent events make me thrilled.

I cant wait to get my hands on the book to find out a bit more, If we also get Greigor returning as a member of the 13th.

 

And it also provides some ways to make the Space wolves Ultra distinct and interesting with the current plot.

 

Space wolves interactions and thoughts on the eras of marines and man.

 

30k marines looking at 40k marines and primaris.

 

we can see a direct comparison at this point to how much degradation actually occurred.

 

table top wise, bringing in and potentially mixing 30k legionairs, with 40k marines and Primaris would be super fun, with there equipment aswell.

 

 

-------

 

but it makes me think, if this 13th co has been trapped in the portal maze, then who are the other 13th that have been active in the past? ancient space wolf cruisers and wulfen assisting imperials. This could also be why each band f the 13th co has had a different wolf lord, perhaps the 13th co fractured and got lost forming adhoc chapters and going about there own business.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

the 13th Company was an entire company of Wolves.

 

Inferno says 800 of the company were active in the Censure of Prospero, and if 200 of them emerge from the warp gates, thats leaves 600 unaccounted for. Now likely most of them died, but say 100-200 survived the battle in their headlong pursuit of the fleeing Thousand Sons. 

[deathspectersgt7]

Just might have to resurrect my 13 co. Wolves . Will have to pick up the book also .

[Guest Triszin]

the 13th Company was an entire company of Wolves.

 

Inferno says 800 of the company were active in the Censure of Prospero, and if 200 of them emerge from the warp gates, thats leaves 600 unaccounted for. Now likely most of them died, but say 100-200 survived the battle in their headlong pursuit of the fleeing Thousand Sons. 

800 were active on the censure, but how many existed total?

 

---

 

THis also means the 13th CO slaughtered the THousand sons at the end of the book and won that battle. I'm going to re listen to it =D loved that audio drama

[mc warhammer]

interested to know more about 30k v 40k sw interaction

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

the 13th Company was an entire company of Wolves.

 

Inferno says 800 of the company were active in the Censure of Prospero, and if 200 of them emerge from the warp gates, thats leaves 600 unaccounted for. Now likely most of them died, but say 100-200 survived the battle in their headlong pursuit of the fleeing Thousand Sons. 

800 were active on the censure, but how many existed total?

 

---

 

THis also means the 13th CO slaughtered the THousand sons at the end of the book and won that battle. I'm going to re listen to it =D loved that audio drama

 

 

sorry, just dug up my copy of Inferno

 

of the 13th Company, only 600 are listed as being present at the Censure of Prospero (page 24) which is called a small detachment (page 23)

 

How many were there all together? Who knows. FW doesnt give that information in Inferno from what I've been able to find.

[DarkChaplain]

Wait, how did they have tanks and all in the portals? Was that a thing that happened in The Thirteenth Wolf, because I don't remember that. As far as I remember, they were footslogging through the portals on a whim.

Where'd they suddenly get full-level gear?

[Guest Triszin]

Wait, how did they have tanks and all in the portals? Was that a thing that happened in The Thirteenth Wolf, because I don't remember that. As far as I remember, they were footslogging through the portals on a whim.

Where'd they suddenly get full-level gear?

Amon, a thousand son Sorcerer. He, I actually feel bad for and I wanted him to succeed in the Thirteenth wolf.

 

He was one of the sorcerers that was involved in the crafting / accessing of the portal network.

(which I am fairly certain is actually the Maze the Tzeentch created, it goes through dimensions and time. THere are parts in which the thirteenth thought they were moving through water, but it turned out that they were in a time dialation section and they were walking on concrete.

**(look at fluid laws, all things are in a state of fluid, just the time it takes for them to behave as such ranges. they were only in that room for a few minutes from there perception, but it couldve been thousands of years that pased), they could see the silver towers of tzeentch at one point)

 

- he was aware of the powers at chaos at play to turn magnus and the sons against the imperium, and that the wolves were played also, he just found out to late. so he put entire battles in the portal networked and froze them in time. with hopes that he and a wolf commander could halt the forces in those battles and do peace. so there would still be loyal sons of magnus.

- Bulveye at this point lost tons of brothers and he didnt beleive the sorcerer so he killed him. and in doing so the arcane manipulations he did stopped, so the battles began again in the portal system.

- in doing so it closed the portal entrance back to prospero

 

--Literal entire companies and warzones were frozen in time for both sides.

 

--------------

 

one other thing I just thought of, there could be sisters of silence that come back this way as they were accompanying the wolves.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Triszin

[Ascanius]

I wonder if Thirteenth Company Space Wolves accompanied by Sisters of Silence would be less likely to be mutated by being in Warp spaces.

[Phoebus]

Wait, Amon as in Magistus Amon the equerry of Magnus himself, or a different Amon?

[Dantay VI]

Is it definitely the 13th Company, or is it Russ' retinue who left the Fang with him, leaving Bjorn behind? It would explain why they are so well kitted out

 

Unless the Stormbird/Spartan thing is just an assumption on the part of the OP as to what he can take on the tabletop because of the book. Does the book specifically make mention to these items belonging to the 13th Company?

[Phoebus]

I suppose we’ll have to get clarification, but why would they not have access to those things? The Great Company was the first subdivision in the legion model of the Space Wolves, so it stands to reason that they would have access to Stormbirds and Spartans every bit as much as the 10,000-man Chapters of the Ultramarines. I would expect them the command element of any such force to have the best equipment available to the Space Wolves (well, next to one led by the Wolf King himself). The fact that the 13th incorporated Leman Russ’s Fenrisian companions, and that the element in question is led by Bulveye himself only seals the deal for me. I imagine he and his warriors showed up in their own battle barge, loaded with whatever vehicles and wargear they saw fit to bring.

[b1soul]

Eh...didn't Ahriman kill Amon in the Ahriman series?

[JH79]

Eh...didn't Ahriman kill Amon in the Ahriman series?

In what is quite possibly the best executed slow mo sequence I've ever read!

[Kelborn]

I think that he's referring to Izzakar Orr.

Wasn't he the sorcerer trying to persuade Bulveye within the network?

[b1soul]

So how much time has the 13th company experienced in the portal network?

[Aenar Deathclaws]

Hello everyone.

 

I will try to answer your questions.

 

 

the 13th Company was an entire company of Wolves.

 

Inferno says 800 of the company were active in the Censure of Prospero, and if 200 of them emerge from the warp gates, thats leaves 600 unaccounted for. Now likely most of them died, but say 100-200 survived the battle in their headlong pursuit of the fleeing Thousand Sons. 

 

As I said in the Space wolves section :

 

The 13th is trapped in the network of portals. But Magnus did release a lot of wulfens in the events of Curse of the Wulfen. So we know where are the unaccounted of the 13th. Bulveye exits from the portals because Njal tells him that he will be reunitad with his brothers from the 13th. But he hasn't tell him yet that they were transformed in wulfens

 

interested to know more about 30k v 40k sw interaction

 

What can I say ?

 

The SW30k look oddly at the SW 40k. They are surprised because they are a bit religious with their armor. There is also a rivalry between the two forces. There is one in particular between Arjac and Vigga Deathblow, the first champion of Russ.

But the SW30k are also in shock when they learn of the treachery of Horus, the death of the Emperor and when they realise that they have been manipulated to destroy the TS

 

 

 

Wait, how did they have tanks and all in the portals? Was that a thing that happened in The Thirteenth Wolf, because I don't remember that. As far as I remember, they were footslogging through the portals on a whim.

Where'd they suddenly get full-level gear?

Amon, a thousand son Sorcerer. He, I actually feel bad for and I wanted him to succeed in the Thirteenth wolf.

 

He was one of the sorcerers that was involved in the crafting / accessing of the portal network.

(which I am fairly certain is actually the Maze the Tzeentch created, it goes through dimensions and time. THere are parts in which the thirteenth thought they were moving through water, but it turned out that they were in a time dialation section and they were walking on concrete.

**(look at fluid laws, all things are in a state of fluid, just the time it takes for them to behave as such ranges. they were only in that room for a few minutes from there perception, but it couldve been thousands of years that pased), they could see the silver towers of tzeentch at one point)

 

- he was aware of the powers at chaos at play to turn magnus and the sons against the imperium, and that the wolves were played also, he just found out to late. so he put entire battles in the portal networked and froze them in time. with hopes that he and a wolf commander could halt the forces in those battles and do peace. so there would still be loyal sons of magnus.

- Bulveye at this point lost tons of brothers and he didnt beleive the sorcerer so he killed him. and in doing so the arcane manipulations he did stopped, so the battles began again in the portal system.

- in doing so it closed the portal entrance back to prospero

 

--Literal entire companies and warzones were frozen in time for both sides.

 

--------------

 

one other thing I just thought of, there could be sisters of silence that come back this way as they were accompanying the wolves.

 

 

Triszin, you are right but the TS sorcerer involved is Izzakar Orr as Kelborn said.

 

Wait, how did they have tanks and all in the portals? Was that a thing that happened in The Thirteenth Wolf, because I don't remember that. As far as I remember, they were footslogging through the portals on a whim.

Where'd they suddenly get full-level gear?

 

The answer is, we don't know. It is not written in the book. But I agree with you, they were footslogging in the Thirteenth wolf

 

But in the book, the Stormbird of Bulveye is described. Its name is "Clawrend". There are also two thunderhawks, one spartan and there are tanks larger than the usual that the SW40k don't recognize. At a time, they even speak of a Mastodon. So it's not impossible that there is one in. and of course some dreadnoughts and Terminators

 

I wonder if Thirteenth Company Space Wolves accompanied by Sisters of Silence would be less likely to be mutated by being in Warp spaces.

 

There are no Sisters of Silence nor Custodes in the book

 

Is it definitely the 13th Company, or is it Russ' retinue who left the Fang with him, leaving Bjorn behind? It would explain why they are so well kitted out

 

Unless the Stormbird/Spartan thing is just an assumption on the part of the OP as to what he can take on the tabletop because of the book. Does the book specifically make mention to these items belonging to the 13th Company?

 

I don't understand OP. You mean overpowered?

 

No. this force is the force that pursue the TS in the network of portals during the Scouring of Prospero.

And yes, the book does say that these items do belong to the 13th company even if in the 200 SW 30k, there are indeed some wolves belonging to other great companies which were involved in the Scouring

 

So how much time has the 13th company experienced in the portal network?

 

We don't know for sure :

 

For the survivors, they have been trapped for something like 2 weeks or one month in the network of portals

 

I hope to have answer your questions. If you have others, don't hesitate

Edited December 3, 2017 by Aenar Deathclaws

[Guest Triszin]

Was griegor mentioned? Would be neat to use him in 40k

[Aenar Deathclaws]

Was griegor mentioned? Would be neat to use him in 40k

 

No, he's not mentionned. And, for me, he doesn't belong to the 13th. So it wouldn't be logic to have him

[Astropate]

I wonder if Wolf's Honour by Lee Lightner is still canon. That novels gives us the story of the Spear of Russ and it's part of the series from which BL took inspiraton to make the Spear appear in The Horus Heresy (and we'll even see it in Wolfsbane next year).

Nevertheless, Wolf's Honour tells a different story for "Bulveye and friends".

Bulveye, Torvald and other 13th Company Marines say they were in the Eye of Terror for ten millennia and the last conversation between Torvald and Ragnar is:

 

“Torvald, when I first saw you at the agri-combine, you said you’d been looking for me, but Sigurd had no way of knowing I was on the Fist of Russ. How is that possible?” The Rune Priest raised his head in the young Space Wolf’s direction. His eyelids opened, revealing glowing orbs instead of eyes. “It was foreseen,” the Rune Priest said in an unearthly voice. “Farewell, Ragnar Blackmane. We shall meet again.”

 

Were them the real Marines of the 13th Company?

Were they warp stuff or whatever while the real ones were in the maze? Because those...

 

 His eyelids opened, revealing glowing orbs instead of eyes. AND  the Rune Priest said in an unearthly voice.

 

...are suspicious.

[Aenar Deathclaws]

I don't think so for the books of Lee Lightner.

 

There is no mention of Torvald or any Rune Priest in the 13th trapped in the network of portals. If they had had a Rune Priest, he could have tried to open the main portal

 

The first mention of the Spear of Russ is from Grey Hunter From William King.

 

I'll be at the Horus Heresy Weekender this february and I can't wait to grab a copy of Wolfsbane and read it to see the story behind this famous spear. ;)

 

There are also some revelations for the TS players

 

The TS sorcerer which has send a shard of its psyche into Njal is Issakar Orr. He is horrifed of what has become of the TS Legion. When the SW first arrive in front of the first portal on Prospero, they are confronted by a force of 200 TS 30k who want to exit. The SW of Njal are completely outnumbered. But when the TS set foot in the real world, tey become dust.

At the end, the sorcerer and the SW make peace because they realised that they've been tricked. Issakar Orr closes the last portal to give time to the SW to evacuate the planet because magnus is behind them. He then returns in the portals, resolved to fight against his primarch and what he has become. I believe that we'll see this sorcerer in a next book or the future campaign

[Marshal Rohr]

What is the point of this novel? Like what is it trying to do?

[Kelborn]

Telling a story? Preparing the return of the 13th?

 

The most interesting thing for me is the differences between 30K and 40K Wolves. I had the same in mind when thinking about a SW Primaris chapter and the Wolves.

 

Is it just mentioned here and there or did Gave elaborate it more?

[Aenar Deathclaws]

Njal and his little force try and succeed in rescueing the force of the 13th which is trapped inside the network of portals on Prospero

 

@Kelborn : No, gav doesn't elaborate on the Primaris. They're just mentionned

 

The Primaris with the SW geneseed have joined the chapter. But Logan is careful with them because he doesn't know if they're stronger or weaker against the Curse of the Wulfen

 

Concerning the differences between 30k Marines and 40k :

 

I would have like to have more. But, I would say that it is mostly mentionned. The 40k marines are in awe in front of the 30k marines. For example, Arjac has a rivalry with a Terminator of the 13th until he discovers that the guy is Vigga Deathblow, the first Champion of Russ. The 40k marines are also in awe in front of the vehicles that they don't know : stormbird, Spartan, Tanks (we can assume Sicarans and maybe a mastodon as he is mentionned)

On the other side, the 30k marines are schocked and taken aback when they discover the treachery of Horus, the fact that they have been manipulated to destroy the TS... But they don't discuss much because they are busy fighting their way out of the portals. I think that is something on which, we'll have more in a future book

Edited December 3, 2017 by Aenar Deathclaws

[Marshal Rohr]

Right, but is this like a ten thousand year later tie in to the Battle of Prospero game, or is this meant to be the reboot of the old 13th Company story from the Black Crusade lore?