Lion and Wolf Strategem

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/03/coming-soon-hunt-begins-anew/

 

Looks like we get a combo strategem with the dark angels. Thoughts?

[Fang_Guard23]

if they have something likes this in the codex i can't wait for our codex.

[Yoyo ninja]

I like it. Its not the most powerful but it's something based on the lore and a bit of fun.

[Deadnaughty]

Stratagems can be a good place for little bits of story like this. They don't all need to be top level competitive viable (so long as enough are).

[Stoic Raptor]

It's silly.  It requires you to take Dark Angels and Space Wolves in the same army (necessitating an auxiliary support detachment and losing 1 CP), then spending another CP for the stratagem and one of your guys gets wounded.

 

The whole idea is supposed to be that Wolves and Dark Angels don't cooperate well - why would a player take them in the same army?

 

Now, if it worked with any other Space Wolves army on the table, then it would be fluffy IMO.  but how many SW players run DA allies, or vice versa? And who's going to add a unit just to get the stratagem?

[Deadnaughty]

It's silly.  It requires you to take Dark Angels and Space Wolves in the same army (necessitating an auxiliary support detachment and losing 1 CP), then spending another CP for the stratagem and one of your guys gets wounded.

 

The whole idea is supposed to be that Wolves and Dark Angels don't cooperate well - why would a player take them in the same army?

 

Now, if it worked with any other Space Wolves army on the table, then it would be fluffy IMO.  but how many SW players run DA allies, or vice versa? And who's going to add a unit just to get the stratagem?

First off you can just take 2 normal detachments, no need for an auxillary.

 

Secondly DA and SW can get along just fine. The duel is a ritual at this point. They meet in a warzone, have their duel, one side wins, the other pouts and then they go on with business as usual.

 

Its a piece of story that lets a fluff player enact this 'rivalry' with a little in game benefit, it adds character for those who like to build characterful lists to have fun with.

Not every stratagem needs to be aimed at competitive players.

[NightHowler]

And it means (assuming we get the same stratagem when our codex comes out) that I'll now have to paint a few token green dress wearers to get my cool upgraded beatstick characters.

 

As I understand it, each model only loses a wound on a 4+, and then both models gain the benefit. Clearly having a wolf priest and an apothecary nearby increases the benefit by removing the (potentially) lost wound.

[Bulwyf]

I like it. DA and SW aren't mortal enemies, they have a rivalry but would always support/help each other out if need be.

[Runefyre]

I honestly love it. Never thought I'd collect dark angels, but I could totally see painting up a unit of deathwing (by far the coolest DA kit imo) to run alongside my Wolves.

 

I like little side projects (like an inquisitor + retinue).

Edited December 4, 2017 by Runefyre

[Karack Blackstone]

Fitting, fluffy, and above all, fun.

 

If the controlling player is interested in going this route, they have that option. If not, that's cool too; the best part is that there is the potential to get two upgraded models, such as Logan and I honestly forget the DA Chapter Master, with this duel option. Sure, it's an option, however, wow, it does say Infantry. That does mean if one is so inclined, whoever is willing to be risked in this duel, up to and including said Chapter Masters, are able to go this route.

 

I truly like this idea, and I figure the name of the Strategem will remain the same, just listed in C:SW as a Space Wolves Strategem.

[Guest Triszin]

awesome for buffing up lone wolves, then healing them turn 1. Monsta SLAYERS

[Karack Blackstone]

awesome for buffing up lone wolves, then healing them turn 1. Monsta SLAYERS

 

While I wholeheartedly agree, considering this duel can literally be done by the two Chapter Masters if both are present, and with the correct supporting elements, will hopefully both live, well, imagine the added benefits this could convey to those two, as I typed above.

 

Still, fun, fluffy, and fitting.

[NightHowler]

As there is only a 50% chance of a wound on each, and they only take 1 mortal wound, anything with more than 1 wound is guaranteed to survive.  I like this.

[Guest Triszin]

Honestly seeing this for the wolves and dark angels, makes me sad the Salamanders didnt get something like:

 

"Last salvation for the damned"

any salamander may take the wounds instead of allied imperial guard.

 

basically give salamanders army wide body guard when allied with imperial guard.

 

would be super fluffy

[Kasper_Hawser]

Very fluffy and creative. I actually have a box of Dark Angel Veterans which I bought for some reason I can't remember. As mention, a simple patrol detachment of Dark Angels is enough to still make a battle forged list. Multi wound characters comes to mind. Upping a Wolf Lord/Battle Leader or/and a Company Master/Ravenwing/Deathwing character will be quite useful, and the downside mortal wound (if it happens) is easily negatable by an Apothecary or Wolf Priest.

 

However, most characters are already hitting on WS2+ for Space Wolves, so the weapon skill bonus on characters is not very useful. Alternative would be multiwound infantry like Terminator or Wulfen, so that they can swing the Thunderhammers and hit on 3+ instead. The Leadership bonus is also not useful on characters and more better on a non-character which is multiwound. Similarly for Dark Angels, Deathwing and Ravenwing multiwounds would benefit more.

 

Overall I think it's a nice nudge towards playing a mixed and fluffy army. Not forcing us to play both by making it overpowerful, but just nice to get us interested in mixing it up. For my part, I always admired the cross dressing marines, and I think all the traitor references on them is getting REALLY old and stupid.

 

I'm reminded of the end of the latest Ragnar Blackmane novel

 

Ragnar and a Dark Angel Captain have a long many decades delayed duel at the end of the novel, and in the end, Ragnar wins fair and square (well, a Flesh Tearer claimed Ragnar slipped and dodged a fatal blow but he could have just been a dick). The Dark Angel loses an arm but both of them and their men leave the duel in good spirits, ready for the next assignment to hunt traitors.

 

Very touching novel, mainly between Ragnar and a fellow Wolf Guard, the afore mentioned Dark Angel who was a sergeant when they first met, and a Flesh Tearer as well.

 

[Rand Winters]

If you apply this to a wolf lord, does their weapon skill go to 1+ with a roll of 1 always failing? Similar to a terminator in cover. Would this allow your wolf lord to swing a thunder hammer at 2+ after the penalty?

[Guest]

I hope this strategem is changed to instead of "your army" to "any army". That way we can have a real fluffy stratagem when you have a DA vs SW. Idk about the rest of you but my house rule will correct it to my proposed idea.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

@Rand I believe tga t is true.

 

I'm pretty stoked about this as I recently inherited about 3k points of DA. Throwing both on the table sounds fun. And this is a sweet boost to both.

[Dracos]

Would thinks this would be a good situation to use a Primaris sergeant?

[Kasper_Hawser]

it's good on any multi wound character as long. But in both cases, better if you do it to a fast character.

 

Primaris is ok, if you are alright leaving him behind to buff the backline. 

[Karhedron]

If you apply this to a wolf lord, does their weapon skill go to 1+ with a roll of 1 always failing? Similar to a terminator in cover. Would this allow your wolf lord to swing a thunder hammer at 2+ after the penalty?

There is nothing in the rules to prevent a 1+ stat as the Termie/Cover situation shows. I think you are right that your WL would be hitting on a 2+, even with a TH.

[DanPesci]

 

If you apply this to a wolf lord, does their weapon skill go to 1+ with a roll of 1 always failing? Similar to a terminator in cover. Would this allow your wolf lord to swing a thunder hammer at 2+ after the penalty?

There is nothing in the rules to prevent a 1+ stat as the Termie/Cover situation shows. I think you are right that your WL would be hitting on a 2+, even with a TH.

 

 

Thats the way id see it.

 

Would like to get this on  arjac. Sure he already hits on 2+ with his foehammer, but this would give him an extra attack, wound, and make foehammer S12

 

Edit -- ah wait, is the foehammer just a straight S10 rather than Sx2? 

Edited January 5, 2018 by DanPesci

[Deadnaughty]

 

 

If you apply this to a wolf lord, does their weapon skill go to 1+ with a roll of 1 always failing? Similar to a terminator in cover. Would this allow your wolf lord to swing a thunder hammer at 2+ after the penalty?

There is nothing in the rules to prevent a 1+ stat as the Termie/Cover situation shows. I think you are right that your WL would be hitting on a 2+, even with a TH.

 

 

Thats the way id see it.

 

Would like to get this on  arjac. Sure he already hits on 2+ with his foehammer, but this would give him an extra attack, wound, and make foehammer S12

 

Edit -- ah wait, is the foehammer just a straight S10 rather than Sx2? 

 

Foehammer is x2

[breng77]

Yup, it is a pretty good stratagem in the end.  Having a wolf lord with 5 attacks hitting on 2+ with a S10 thunderhammer is really good for 1 CP.  You can then take a DA captain and do the same if desired.  Were I going to make use of this playing SW as the main force I would probably include DA for Scouts (if I wanted to minimize their presence) as SW scouts don't get advanced deployment to work as a screening element, so a DA patrol detachment of 1 character and a scout squad would be pretty easy to include.  Just a note that it only works on infantry characters so RW characters would not be usable as a target.

Edited January 5, 2018 by breng77

[DanPesci]

 

 

 

If you apply this to a wolf lord, does their weapon skill go to 1+ with a roll of 1 always failing? Similar to a terminator in cover. Would this allow your wolf lord to swing a thunder hammer at 2+ after the penalty?

There is nothing in the rules to prevent a 1+ stat as the Termie/Cover situation shows. I think you are right that your WL would be hitting on a 2+, even with a TH.

 

 

Thats the way id see it.

 

Would like to get this on  arjac. Sure he already hits on 2+ with his foehammer, but this would give him an extra attack, wound, and make foehammer S12

 

Edit -- ah wait, is the foehammer just a straight S10 rather than Sx2? 

 

Foehammer is x2

 

 

Sweet, S12 hammertime it is then :D

 

obviosuly though...this is a very situational strategem. Its a bit of fun.

 

I cant really see anyone purposefully collecting a list based just around this. 

 

However, my 40k mate  has a dark angels army, so I could see us maybe using it at a doubles match etc.