To the attention of all Swordbrothers.

[Schlitzaf]

Paragraphs and some basic editing go a long way. Also you mention what we excel and then explicitly compare us to BA as 'better than us at us'. This why we need come to some kind of group consensus of what we are on the tabletop. If we complain that BA is better at doing BA things, fast surgical alpha strikes. We'll hit a wall. We have a flavor identity, that isn't an issue.

 

What we lack functionally is a real mechanical identity. Well we have one, attrition based warfare, and hording to enable that. All of our Stratagems, Relic, Warlord Trait and UU all favor that style of play. The only exception is our Chapter Tactic. Words. You say we have an identity, on the tabletop, what is it? Leave Zeal at the door for the moment.

 

What are Black Templars, Black Templars? Any letter, especially one written under the guise of aren't doing well what we should be doing the best at. Needs to pinpoint what we are failing.

[Marshal Wolfhart]

I like it. Make 'em hear, but don't whine. Actually i cringed at the creation of this thread (as many others) but now I see the driection and I'm all for this approach. There is still some proof reading to do though, might wanna leave that to some native speakers around here though, as i'm horrible at punctuation :P

[Aegir_Einarsson]

I think is Great. A balanced, smooth letter, without complaining. Maby one thing-> few ready ideas to concider. Maby not even rules but just names "holy orb of antioch", deadly veterans of a thousand campaigns ability, just to remember our Great abilities from past editions.

How to implement them in 8ed it is theirs job.

 

And If the letter is online, Maby you can paste a link to our subforum, And many other that you familiar with, to show how big And active is BT community. As someone mentioned earlier. We have bigger And more activ community than many of First founding chapters combained together.

 

I know that Maby some GW workers are lurking here, but nothing is as good as pointing something with your finger.

[_luca_93]

By the way... in the meantime.

Other guys from the team think, the letter is in his best version, actually... probably numbers is the most important thing now, so an online petition is now started.

 

 

https://www.change.org/p/games-workshop-love-for-my-black-templars/fbog/347070736?recruiter=347070736&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page

 

 

If you want some change, some news, or simply screaaaam DOOOOOOOOOOOOOORN ( while waiting letter mass sending ) join the petition ! :)

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Joined

[DarkCrusader93]

I actually had a chat with my local gw store staff about this today and they agree its a good idea simply because the more people that back this idea the more people will buy a new product  that comes out so even if you think this wont get any where just sign what have you got to lose the results might surprise you   

[Schlitzaf]

Varg, I appreciate your effort and I am certain my brothers will support you. Personally for me, I cannot in good faith support. The reason I personally play Black Templars is the versatility offered by our iconic unit and horde based attrition gameplay. Black Templars are not Blood Angels, and nothing Blood Angels have eclipses our strengths.

1) The best Tactical Variant (easier to fill Battalions)

2) Crusader Helm. Enabling less bubble gameplay and making it so we don't need to congo line off deep strikes to be in range.

3) Cheap Moral Immunity

4) One of the best denials (shared World Bearers, Sisters, and an Admech Forged World).

 

And none of the things you personally listed for me, would draw me away from Black Templars as they are things that promote rapid insertion and surgical strikes. A signature for that petition would signal that is the gameplay I personally want for our my crusaders. It isn't. That said once again Varg, your doing something. More then I could say about myself. So props to you.

[_luca_93]

For one moment let abandon fantasy names, or titles.

 

 

Guys.

Let imagine for one second, what can we do,  today, right now with a simple pc. Me, here. From a little town from the Italy in the deep night writing you. You reading from the most disparate place in world. How much people can we call, or how much players ! Imagine then, NOW all together join the "cause", which kind of results can we obtain!?! I'm of the idea that, if everyone of us, starting from this petition, make his duty... we will see something. I want to believe. We can do the difference, TOGETHER.

[_luca_93]

Varg, I appreciate your effort and I am certain my brothers will support you. Personally for me, I cannot in good faith support. The reason I personally play Black Templars is the versatility offered by our iconic unit and horde based attrition gameplay. Black Templars are not Blood Angels, and nothing Blood Angels have eclipses our strengths.

1) The best Tactical Variant (easier to fill Battalions)

2) Crusader Helm. Enabling less bubble gameplay and making it so we don't need to congo line off deep strikes to be in range.

3) Cheap Moral Immunity

4) One of the best denials (shared World Bearers, Sisters, and an Admech Forged World).

 

And none of the things you personally listed for me, would draw me away from Black Templars as they are things that promote rapid insertion and surgical strikes. A signature for that petition would signal that is the gameplay I personally want for our my crusaders. It isn't. That said once again Varg, your doing something. More then I could say about myself. So props to you.

Sorry to not have your support. But i'm trying to do the best, and trying to obtain more results as possible. As Somewhere else said, i start from the idea that GW doesn't have wish to invest too much Money ( overall ) effort , and time. So, probably, one of the best thing is to leave some " white paper "...

[Marshal Arthur]

I don't normally like to self-advertise but I've been building a list of possible requests in the FAQ Crusade thread if you guys want to give some feedback to GW let me know what you think of some of the ideas and test them out. Once I get enough feedback on some of the more contentious issues we can present suggestions to GW instead of broad requests. I also have to agree with Schlitzaf, we're not Blood Angels and our method of combat needs to be our own.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

 

Finally guys... 'Ere we go.

 

 

This, the product, the letter.

 

What do you think? Are we ready ?

 

 

Ehy Guys from the studio and from the GW team.

The letter that you are now reading has been elaborated by the community of Black Templars players from different part of the world. First of all we would like to thank you for what have you been doing in these last months for the players, for the game of Warhammer 40k and more.

In the last year and a half we have noted a new and positive attitude from your part, introducing some new possibilities, listening even more to our, payers and fans, opinions and inviting us to give suggestion directly on your work, and we are really grateful. If these lines were written, it is precisely because there is hope that you can take them into consideration, read the words of your followers.

Hence, why today should a player choose to play Black Templars? "Because the Emperor call us to the sacred duty of conquering the galaxy in His name". But also because the Black Templars, despite all the cuts to their special rules during the past editions, despite the passing of the years, kept a well-defined identity, thanks also to their recurring presence in several works as: graphic novels, stories of the Black Library, numerous well-known campaigns in the 40k warhammer imaginary. Not to mention their role as a “poster-boy” for space marines in the past. In terms of play it is possible, thanks to their chapter trait, to organize a strategy based on our strengths: the deep strike and the use of special characters.

This is what I would have answered with certainty until a few days ago, even if the comparaison with the other chapters of the Codex Space Marines was already difficult at that time. However, we were able to be, in some cases, superior to them in combat only thanks to our named characters, while continuing to         maintain the classic gaps as our historical lacks (f.e. missing a psychic phase). The Codex Blood Angels has been released these days and in doing so, every reason to play Black Templars has been virtually canceled, excluding the pure and simple love for the background. Red Thirst, Black Rage, some relics (The Veritas Vitae, Standard of Sacrifice), some stratagems (Forlorn Fury, Strike of the Archangels, Upon Wings of Fire, Descent of Angels), the possibility of taking librarians (also Dreadnought, flying) , characters (Lemartes) and more. The strengths of the Black Templars do not stand comparison. I could bore you with every kind of comparison in terms of statistics, percentage or performance but I know that you are perfectly able to make any comparison on your own and I do not want to put the question in mathematical terms only, because it is not just that. Now Black Templars have lost their role: everything in which they excelled now someone else does better. Someone might suggest "then play blood angels", here, this is not an option, not for the proud (and fanatical) Black Templars players, because we do not want to abandon our army, our Background, our heroes. But at the same time we would like to return to make sense as we had editions before and now we have other chapters that, despite not having their own codex, excel in their specialties. The ideas, the proposals could be many, from new stratagems that replace the old wonderful votes, the many exclusive relics of which the Black Templars were equipped, the special rules for the crusader squad and the veterans (vanguard, sternguard, company veterans and terminator) they would certainly help a little, to restore the force lost at the Eternal Crusade and to compensate for the lack of librarians. In addition, the players and all hobbyists agree to be inclined to the most diverse and various options: whether it is a digital supplement, or pdf files, to overdo a supplement even on paper. The already mentioned enthusiasts are ready, willing and literally eager (as also demonstrated in the recent questionnaire) to buy these new hypothetical products and rules, and probably what would result would be an increase in purchases of existing coversion kit, Specials characters set coul be made anew, maybe also Black Templars Sword Brethern?

In conclusion, what the players and hobbyist Black templars ask, is "love for my Templars."

“ There is only the Emperor, and he is our shield and protector.”

 

 

I know this is directly translated, but if this thing is not sent yet, then I have a few things to pick apart...

 

 

In the last year and a half we have noted a new and positive attitude from your part, introducing some new possibilities, listening even more to our, payers and fans, opinions and inviting us to give suggestion directly on your work, and we are really grateful.

 

Never mention this to GW, you get sniped right away by their Vindicare Assassins... its like saying "we pay you so you have to listen to us"... you just need to nudge them towards that direction, but never say it directly... these Brits take these kinds of words as fighting words... use gentler words such as loyal customers, long-time supporters of your products, or something similar... using something as robust as PAYERS makes it sound like we are mandated to pay GW tax money....

 

 

If these lines were written, it is precisely because there is hope that you can take them into consideration, read the words of your followers.

 

Also, instead of petitioning them for reading the letter, I'd just say a word of thanks for taking the time to read the letter, and considering taking a time for it despite their hectic holiday schedules.

 

 

This is what I would have answered with certainty until a few days ago, even if the comparaison with the other chapters of the Codex Space Marines was already difficult at that time. However, we were able to be, in some cases, superior to them in combat only thanks to our named characters, while continuing to         maintain the classic gaps as our historical lacks (f.e. missing a psychic phase). The Codex Blood Angels has been released these days and in doing so, every reason to play Black Templars has been virtually canceled, excluding the pure and simple love for the background. Red Thirst, Black Rage, some relics (The Veritas Vitae, Standard of Sacrifice), some stratagems (Forlorn Fury, Strike of the Archangels, Upon Wings of Fire, Descent of Angels), the possibility of taking librarians (also Dreadnought, flying) , characters (Lemartes) and more. The strengths of the Black Templars do not stand comparison. I could bore you with every kind of comparison in terms of statistics, percentage or performance but I know that you are perfectly able to make any comparison on your own and I do not want to put the question in mathematical terms only, because it is not just that. Now Black Templars have lost their role: everything in which they excelled now someone else does better. Someone might suggest "then play blood angels", here, this is not an option, not for the proud (and fanatical) Black Templars players, because we do not want to abandon our army, our Background, our heroes.

 

Oh boy... if read wrongly this could sound like vitriol... or Nitroglycerin at the worst case scenario... it sounds like the letter complained about the BA stealing the BTs identity, which it wasn't since BA had Melee and Lightning Assaults before Templars had Crusader Squads... look for Codex: Angels of Death if you don't believe me... they've established that part long before we did... also, complaining about missing out on the psychic phase, and mentioning Librarians SOOOOO many times just screams the exact same thing I despised about the lore on the 8th ed. C:SM book about Templars... we crave Librarians now? we want them back in our army? ?

 

Templars should have 0, ZERO, NULL, nothing to do in the psychic phasse other than to cancel out the powers of the rogue, the heretical and the traitorous and slam down their minds by a sheer wall of indomitable willpower... asking for Librarians or things to do in the psychic phase should be as anathema to us as is the Emperor of Mankind is to Daemons of the Warp.

 

What we should ask for is a definite identity in place for our rules... a rule set that says that this is what we are, this is what our identity is, not something that sounds like we want what another Chapter/army/rules have... sure asking for more oomph in melee is all fine and dandy, and asking for more attrition type warfare is cool and all, but if you reread that part, GW has nothing else to tell us at that point but literally to play as BA if you want their rules so much...

 

What we need to put in that section of the letter is more for a definitive role for our army instead of the mixed jack-of-too-many-trades rules we have now... which are:

• Abhor the Witch: can deny psychic powers, but only once per turn.
• Chapter Tactics: focuses on melee even though most of the Codex entries rely on shooting and is unreliable at best.
• Crusader Squads: large attrition units and small MSU shooting squads
• LRC: once a Templar definitive vehicle, now nothing special
• Crusader Helm: Aura expansion bonus but unusable by units/characters that have better area of effect abilities, i.e. Helbrecht, Grimaldus
• Templar Specific Warlord Trait: Useful only to Champion Type Characters, unnecessary for units that lead instead of attack...

 

What we have in Templar rules currently is an undefined very rough collective of abilities that doesn't really define what we are... it actually muddles it down a lot and makes it confusing to tell how our army is actually played... it sounds as if GW has backed our army to focus on massive armored melee assaults using Crusaders and Rhinos, but we lack the oomph to see that into effect... also, our Warlords/Characters are made to sound as if they are Champions (Warlord Trait) but leaders with buff auras (Crusader Helm) at the same time...

Our unique Strategem makes Templars immune to certain psyker effects, but is reliant on Templars not gaining anything from Relics and other uses of Command Points... which shouldn't be the case... and it leave us with an identity that is certainly a heavily watered down version of one of the most used 4th ed. tactic we have... Armored Assault... it doesn't cater for much of anything else, nor does it have any actual punch once it comes down to it in melee...

 

We just need to be clarified on what Templars are, because I feel that currently to GW, we are being all complain-y especially after being given so many new toys already... (don't forget to acknowledge the fact that they gave Templars, all the Primaris stuff on top of keeping our Crusader Squads and pretty decent bonuses to our Unique Special Character)

 

 

The ideas, the proposals could be many, from new stratagems that replace the old wonderful votes, the many exclusive relics of which the Black Templars were equipped, the special rules for the crusader squad and the veterans (vanguard, sternguard, company veterans and terminator) they would certainly help a little, to restore the force lost at the Eternal Crusade and to compensate for the lack of librarians.

 

STOP MENTIONING OUR LACK OF LIBRARIANS!!! They could just roll us and turn us into vanilla and give us a Templar Librarian... if that happens, I'm moving to 30k... I don't care if I have to use the blown up 7th ed. rules... if GW gives Templars Librarians, I'd never buy a single thing from GW ever again...

 

As much as I'd love a new upgrade kit, you also have to consider that Templars have one of the most expanded upgrade kits out there, on par with the Dark Angels Veteran box set...

we have an upgrade box that has parts for Terminators, PA Marines, Dreadnoughts and even Rhino and Land Raider Doors... an upgraded version which fits onto the new Tactical Squad box set without needing to cut anything would be nice, as well as having a more easier to use Bolt Pistol and Chainsword arm instead of the bent ones in the current box that makes it almost impossible to slap a shoulder pad on... but do you guys really want to lose all this:

 

http://store.miniwargaming.com/images/P/newimage.asp-268.gif

 

to be reduced to this?

 

 

 

Because you could only get the original upgrade pack if you buy the DA Veterans box... at least they still have the Ravenwing upgrade set as a separate set online...

 

I wished they'd fix the BT... same as everyone... but imagine the damage they could do to us as well if we ask for too much attention...

you have to remember, GW can fix BT, at the same time as destroy it... it is their creation, and no matter how much the wind howls... the mountain can never bow to it...

Edited December 7, 2017 by Marshal_Roujakis

[Schlitzaf]

Marshall Rou the Helm is meant to encourage Tide Squads. Because the Helm allows one character to have the same buff range as two characters. And the warlord trait is meant to encourage attrition warfare in theory.

 

Specifically the Warlord trait means unless an enemy Unit has more than 6” of movement they cannot escape our characters. Keeping the combat going. Abhor is in theory because can get a lot more command points than other Codex marine armies becuase we can afford double battalion or more specifically our troop choices don’t suck.

 

Sense Marshall w/ Helm, two Castallens and an Emperor’s Champion. 2 Backrow Squads, 2-4 Tide Squads 0-2 Intercessors Squads and 1 Ceno Squad. I think was what the thought our army was gonna. Basically they imagine we were going be using our super troop unit to fill out two battlelions I imagine.

 

All of our things do tie together in a weird sense but the attrition warfare is their

[Marshal_Roujakis]

But that ties us to Footslogging attrition warfare and footslogging, which is not really that good a tactic considering that everyone got a massive mobility boost since 6th ed. even the Necrons suddenly got fast and even Tyranids can get across the table even before Turn 2... I'm not saying attrition isn't a Templar thing, but footslogging never was... it was never suggested in the 4th ed. Codex, it just became a thing because we could do it, and for some reason now it has become a staple tactic...

 

The suggested methodology of warfare for Templars that has always been suggested has always been Armored Assault using vehicles and bikers, or Orbital Assault using Drop Pods and Dreadnoughts... but it has always focused on Assault... something that as an army we lack enough power in... the special rules that we should have as an army wide thing similar to other Codices, have been funneled to only be accessible around our characters...

[Firepower]

I vaguely recall something about GW actually not being able to use rules written by people outside of the company.  IP issues or some such.

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Good points on both sides. In my opinion is better to do something, than doing nothing. If some of you have better ideas, how to shout to GW for attention, good, make it. If not, join varg, because he is doing something, besides complaining. Ok maby letter is not perfect but it is. He put some effort and time to make a good thing to us all.

 

 

As I can see we are agreed, that chances for our own codex are close to 0. We are where we are, and probably we will there. We also don't want to please about some unreal things.

 

But as someone mentioned before, couple of things could be fixed very simple.

 

I doubt that we could have some new units, because we are not as big target group for GW.

But some rules, that could be implemented due FAQ, or some kind of errata should be doable.

 

Simple :

 

1. If a unit comes from reserve, or get off from transport it can add 2" to the charge roll this turn. (I think it is similiar with crusader badges from 4ed. codex).

2. If unit suffers a casulty from shooting, in the oponent shooting phase, in the next turn it can charge after advance. If a unit suffers casulty during overwatch, it can add 2" to the charge roll.

3.  Or even something such simple as tyranids have (don't remember which unit have it), consolidation 6". 

 

I think the key is to show GW that they can please us with minimum effort and minimum outlay.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

imho, Templars would be really easy to please...

 

1st of all... much needed upgrade/model kits...

Dark Angels has had the Dark Angels Veteran upgrade box for the longest time and has never lost it... it's nothing special, just their original DA upgrade sprue with enough Tactical Marine parts to build 5 Dark Angel Marines... we should have something similar with ours... instead of buying a Tactical Box and a Templar upgrade box, we should just request a Crusader Squad box, which would just be the Templar upgrade sprue with enough parts to create 5 Marines... so tactical legs, torso halves and backpacks... the last time we;ve had a box of Crusaders is back in 3rd ed. and this would be absolutely legitimate, as unlike most entries in the Codex, we don't really have any easy access to build Crusader Squads...

You won't believe how many times we've answered in this forum and in so many others and irl the question: "Which box should I get to easily build Crusader Squads..."

If GW would give us an easy answer in the form of a 1 box to build Crusaders, then I could point them at that...

 

2nd: rules that actually represent the Black Templars not just as an army led by an individual, but as an army that has an identity, even at the loss of an HQ

The Strategem is cool, the Chapter Tactic is lacking, other Chapters have access to 2 abilities in their Chapter Tactics, it would just be so easy to toss another one for each Chapter Tactic or special army wide faction rule in existence... it doesn't seem fair that Ultramarines and Black Legion takes 2, but World Eaters and Black Templars only have one... we demand equality dang it... so as standard, toss another melee type Tactic for Templars and the same goes for all factions that only have one...

maybe a WS increase for World Eaters that charged into combat, and +1 CP whenever a unit gets wiped out in melee for Templars, denoting their hatred for the enemy and their suffer not the unclean to live attitude...

 

Just these 2 alone would be enough tbh... it would also help in balancing out all factions, instead of crying for special attention and being under the magnifying glass of GW respond team...

I'm all for more support for the Templars, but asking for too much might be... too much?

I'm pretty sure with just these 2, and not asking for new squads, way too many new rules, or stuff that sounds like it would be hard to squeeze in the schedule would enable GW to respond to our needs much more easily than complaining and asking for a plethora of things...

 

@varg_vikernes: you have my support for attention to Templars... but the way the letter is written seems more of a complaint pointed towards the Blood Angels, rather than a message of: "We are here, and others too, and there are a few things we'd like to see" which is what big corporations like GW like seeing and which usually gets more attention... I'm definitely sure they ignore people who would whine about 1 army being better than theirs and asking why that is, and they would usually respond with: "Then use that army if that's how you want to play." I've sent an email similar to the one you've shown and it was regarding Space Wolves and I was practically sent a reply saying I should just play Space Wolves... obviously, I was irritated, but in an epiphany, or maybe the Emperor showed me a vision, I realized I was one speck of sand in the grand number of hobbyists and customers for GW... my money alone wouldn't matter to them, so instead I sent a less complain-y letter, instead just suggesting a few things that would be nice, and a few years later, we had an Emperor's Champion that almost matched my suggestion... it was still slightly nerfed though with a S2+ but it had the AP2 and the Instant Death rule that I suggested would make the Emperor's Champion a true Champion of the Imperium...

I'd give you my support, but that letter really needs to be re-written...

Edited December 7, 2017 by Marshal_Roujakis

[_luca_93]

Wo, wo, wo, wo.

 

Guys. Chill. Please, we're just talking. ahahahh

 

Marshal : Just one thing particulary : i'm not complaining because I WANT some filthy witch in army. Absolutely NO.  We're talking about librarians, because if not counterbalanced it's an obvious disadvantage for Black Templars players ! :)

 

 

Yep. They could destroy all the background, they could destroy everything... but at least we have tried !

 

Firepower : you hit the point. Generally, Until now, they didn't accept rules from players or community.

[_luca_93]

EDIT :  Probably could be a better idea to create a new topic with the only petition link brothers?

[Sete]

Signed. Why not.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

 

Marshal : Just one thing particulary : i'm not complaining because I WANT some filthy witch in army. Absolutely NO.  We're talking about librarians, because if not counterbalanced it's an obvious disadvantage for Black Templars players !

 

We have a strategem for that... and albeit it can be countered by having multiple psykers in the enemy army, people who only have 1 psyker in their army can also say that they can only counter 1 power at a turn as well, and it's even worse for them since if their psyker dies they have no psyker defense...

 

I think what we could mention is just the severity of Smite spam... having Mortal Wounds dealt by Smite, and having Smite be available to every witch in the galaxy and having armies be literally run by run entire squads of witches, makes it unbalanced, not just for us, but by a huge diversity of the gaming community... but referencing Librarian, Dreadnought Librarians and the advantages of BA Librarians and how BA are cooler since they have melee skills and Librarians while Templars don't have both... well... just put yourself in a GW representatives perspective... if you were an employee of that co. and you made those rules, and then someone writes a petition asking why didn't the Templars get those rules while BA did, the obvious conclusion that you'd have is literally going to be: "If you think that you're army should have those rules, then use those rules but keep your model colors..."

 

Which is what they have responded to me before...

We should not compare the BT to other armies, especially ones that have just been released... there will always be power creep within these games and new toys... what we should ask for instead is a common balance for everyone that has been feeling the same pain as we have... if a Salamanders player faces a psychic wall of Tzeentch and realizes that regardless of what he throws at them he can't get through the smite spam, and the same applies to a White Scar player, and the same applies to someone fielding Templars, then that could be easily placed into the petition that:

 

"As a Templar supporter, and someone who has supported GW for XX years, I feel that the current rules for the psychic phase may not be completely balanced, the strategem for Templars in place can diffuse Psychic powers, but it would not be enough to defend myself against a Grey Knights, Thousand Sons or any army that could field more than one psyker. We have discussed this as a community of players and supporters, and we feel that this goes against the GW statement of balancing the game for players. Smite, simply put, upsets the balance of the game by being too punishing unless the opposing player has a wall of psykers in his army as well which, unfortunately, cannot be done by armies that has low or no access to psykers, such as Templars. A simple suggestion from our community is to...."

 

And yeah... that's how I usually write nowadays to GW.... and I usually get a decent reply of Looking into this and we promise to get back to you... or maybe those are just generic emails by a robot :p

 

PS I signed on... so iz good :p but you have to improve on what you have to say on these corporate big-heads....

[Sete]

What we say won't matter. What they will see is the number of people signing the petition, and calculate how much profit they can make out of us.

 

We just could type, we want some Black Templar love in form of rules and miniatures support. Have 3k people signing it, and you would hear those corporate pockets shaking with anticipation of profit.

 

Words and passion don't speak to them. Only profit and dividends.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Sete

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Yep. That's Right sete.

:)

 

But only If we are ranking about new toys, models, sprues.

 

Because making some FAQ or errata cost them nothing.

And If They give us attention And some new rules that are costless, They can be sure that we will invest in our army more money

Edited December 7, 2017 by Aegir_Einarsson

[Sete]

That is true aswell.

[DER PANZER]

That is true aswell.

U r right sete. If we have the number (without special requests), GW will make something. I don't know if GW will make vows, codex or new miniatures, but we saw that GW was able to make a good product (example DG) if it was sure in a big profit.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

but do you guys really want to lose all this:

 

http://store.miniwargaming.com/images/P/newimage.asp-268.gif

 

to be reduced to this?

 

 

 

In a word yes. In a heartbeat. Not only do i own enough copies of the older kit and make great use of it to be fair, I would in fact like a newer kit, benefitting from GW's since then much improved production techniques (ergo cleaner, sharper details etc)