Standard of Sacrifice

[Emissary]

 

I know there is some discussion about this in another thread, but I think it may need to be separated out so that it doesn't get lost and buried in that thread.  

 

I've seen this mistake made in several online battle reports so far and I think a lot of people may not realize this.  The Standard of Sacrifice is like the Heirs of Azkaellon ability on the Sanguinary Guard.  IE, only models within 6" are affected and not units within 6". 

 

This is pretty huge if you try to use this thing with deep strikers.  Unless the ancient can make the charge or you daisy chain a few models back to the standard, then the unit isn't going to get any use out of the standard.  If you daisy chain a few models back it will take them out of the battle watering down your assault, and all wounds will have to be allocated to those models and you'll lose the effect of the standard as soon as they die (IE, if you take 5 unsaved wounds and the first 2 take out the 2 models within 6", then the other 3 wounds won't get a chance to be saved via the 5+ fnp).

 

Now, it will still be good against overwatch and if you fail a charge.  However, I'm not so sure it's an autotake anymore for any type of deep strike strategy.

 

Anyway, thoughts?

[Panzer]

As long as I don't see a better relic it's still an auto-take for me. You can fit a lot models within 6". ^^

[Spagunk]

It's an auto take because it stacks on top of the banner you want where as usually relics replace existing wargear. As others have pointed out, it's not difficult to make sure everything is within 6". Remember, it's 6" radius, not diameter. So if technically have ~12" diameter to work with if you put him right in the middle of a unit. Also you measure from the base so there is at least inch added to the diameter measurement.

[Emissary]

It's an auto take because it stacks on top of the banner you want where as usually relics replace existing wargear. As others have pointed out, it's not difficult to make sure everything is within 6". Remember, it's 6" radius, not diameter. So if technically have ~12" diameter to work with if you put him right in the middle of a unit. Also you measure from the base so there is at least inch added to the diameter measurement.

 

Right, I'm mainly talking about using this standard in a deep strike strategy.  If you bring it in with some sanguinary guard or vanguard vets on a deep strike.  When they use descent of angels to charge in, odds are the ancient won't make it and your guard or vets will not have the benefits of the standard during the fight and your opponent's turn.

 

If the standard is used on an ancient that just sits in the middle of your devastators or hellblasters and spreads the aura I'm all for it.

 

For relics I certainly think the jump pack and scrolls are both fantastic and the hammer is quite good also.  

[Karhedron]

Very effective but also very hard to use with DoA as it risks getting left behind on the charge (like most of the characters). If you want to run a DeathStar of some sort, I think you will need to jump it up the field behind vehicles or terrain for protection and aim for a Turn 2 charge.

 

It is frustrating that Descent of Angels serves mainly to separate the unit we want to charge from the buff characters it needs to make that charge effective.

[Thoridon]

I'd agree, run the banner in coherency with the unit(s) being supported, keeping close and not getting split up where possible. Save the 3D6 charge stratagem for other units.

[9x19 Parabellum]

So...question guys (thinking outside the box)

 

I'm wondering if the best use for SoS is in conjunction with a big assault squad unit.  They become pretty cheap and yet tanky/tarpitty with the SoS.   You can potentially pull off a multicharge with them, but still leaving behind a couple dudes to trigger the SoS.  When its your opponents turn, he has to decide between leaving combat and not shooting, or staying in combat to fight (as usual).  The difference being that the Assault Squad is not necessarily very killy, meaning your opponent might be inclined to stay in combat with them. 

[Panzer]

I think the best use of it is with a unit of Hellblaster to be honest. Devastators are not a bad choice either but they have half as many wounds so they won't have as many chances to trigger the 5+++ (tho shooting a Lascannon on a 4+ when your opponent tries to get rid of your anti-tank is almost Ynnari level of mean :D ).

[Karhedron]

Only downside with Hellblasters is that even a 5+++ will not save you from overheats as the model is "slain" (removed outright) rather than wounded.

 

I rather like the idea of running it with a big unit of Terminators and teleporting the lot in and then shooting. If the terminators manage to then make a 9" charge, that is great news. If not, they have a 2+/5++/5+++ to weather the retaliation (or 2+/4++/5+++ if you take cataphracti).

[Panzer]

I really wasn't talking about preventing overheat to be fair. Hellblasters deal a lot of damage and so will draw a lot of fire in return. Anything that makes them more survivable is good.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I think the best use of it is with a unit of Hellblaster to be honest. Devastators are not a bad choice either but they have half as many wounds so they won't have as many chances to trigger the 5+++ (tho shooting a Lascannon on a 4+ when your opponent tries to get rid of your anti-tank is almost Ynnari level of mean ).

 

It's just very unfluffy to leave a sanguinary guard ancient behind with a sandwich to babysit the heavy support shooting. he should be up front, kicking ass and taking names, not motivating the shooties!

[Emissary]

 

I think the best use of it is with a unit of Hellblaster to be honest. Devastators are not a bad choice either but they have half as many wounds so they won't have as many chances to trigger the 5+++ (tho shooting a Lascannon on a 4+ when your opponent tries to get rid of your anti-tank is almost Ynnari level of mean ).

 

It's just very unfluffy to leave a sanguinary guard ancient behind with a sandwich to babysit the heavy support shooting. he should be up front, kicking ass and taking names, not motivating the shooties!

 

 

Well, in that case you'll want to use a primaris ancient.  5+++ with the 4+ get to shoot again when they die is pretty mean with overcharging hellblasters.  To reroll the 1s to hit a captain or dreadnought is enough.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

I think I'm gonna run this with a blob of plasma inceptors, should make for a really scary ranged alpha strike that actually has some staying power beyond their first turn.

[Panzer]

I think I'm gonna run this with a blob of plasma inceptors, should make for a really scary ranged alpha strike that actually has some staying power beyond their first turn.

Yeah I'd do that if we had a Primaris HQ with Jump Pack.

[Indefragable]

Devastators

Lascannons

Signum

Company Ancient w/ Standard of Sacrifice

 

Kill as much stuff in the enemy Turn as your own.

 

I’ve been on the receiving end of the C:SM banner with Cent Devs. Lost a Stormraven(!!!) that way.

[tychobi]

I agree op. Great for firing bases but difficult to position for melee units especially charging from deep strike. If it were units rather than models it might work but as is smart foes will work around it. Fufffy but ultimately too awkward and finikey to make my list

[Brother Crimson]

I now sandwich an ancient with banner of sacrifice and a priest between my hell blasters. Tough HP, FNP and if we are lucky 1-2 revive. The extra 1 str is also great against charge, wounding MEQ on 2+.

[Panzer]

I now sandwich an ancient with banner of sacrifice and a priest between my hell blasters. Tough HP, FNP and if we are lucky 1-2 revive. The extra 1 str is also great against charge, wounding MEQ on 2+.

Add a Captain for re-rolling 1s and while you're at it a second squad of Hellblasters or else all those character buffs would be a real waste....wait we are still talking about Blood Angels here, right? :D

[Brother Crimson]

 

I now sandwich an ancient with banner of sacrifice and a priest between my hell blasters. Tough HP, FNP and if we are lucky 1-2 revive. The extra 1 str is also great against charge, wounding MEQ on 2+.

Add a Captain for re-rolling 1s and while you're at it a second squad of Hellblasters or else all those character buffs would be a real waste....wait we are still talking about Blood Angels here, right?

 

 

If dante Says Primaris are awesome who am I to argue

 

But seriously, 3 hellblaster squads  is awesome.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Brother Crimson

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Infantry & Bikes - Nevermind.

 

I had had a sudden glorious idea about parking it between a pair of Godhammers with jumpers inside...

New Dawn fades *nod.

 

I would still like to note that it says 'within' not 'entirely within' so the zone is a touch bigger.

 

Devastators seem like a great choice then.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Xenith]

 

It's just very unfluffy to leave a sanguinary guard ancient behind with a sandwich to babysit the heavy support shooting. he should be up front, kicking ass and taking names, not motivating the shooties!

 

Not if the captain is also at the back guiding the shooting.

 

Maybe he's the 9th co captain so doesnt need a full complement of SanGuard, just the banner to act as a lynchpin?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

This looks like a shooty unit only ability, as others have said. Within 6" isn't that bad - unless you're trying to charge.

[Aothaine]

Meh... I still think it is good for charging units. It has to do with unit placement.

 

Put him up front with 2-3 models in front of him for ablative wounds. Move him up, advance him. Then charge with the squad behind him. This could work pretty good. Or you could use that unit that can take wounds for characters. That might even be better.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Aothaine

[tychobi]

Meh... I still think it is good for charging units. It has to do with unit placement.

 

Put him up front with 2-3 models in front of him for ablative wounds. Move him up, advance him. Then charge with the squad behind him. This could work pretty good. Or you could use that unit that can take wounds for characters. That might even be better.

I have tried to accomplish this with aura buffers many times.  In practice it is very hard to do.  Good luck

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

Meh... I still think it is good for charging units. It has to do with unit placement.

 

Put him up front with 2-3 models in front of him for ablative wounds. Move him up, advance him. Then charge with the squad behind him. This could work pretty good. Or you could use that unit that can take wounds for characters. That might even be better.

I have tried to accomplish this with aura buffers many times.  In practice it is very hard to do.  Good luck

 

 

Totally agree... all of my BA are on 32mm now, except termies obviously... throw in a barely awake opponent and a little bit of terrain and you're not getting the character in.