What to get with the new codex

[Wired4War]

I love the contemptor, I have one from BaC that I just started painting up in DW colors. Even if not using the strategem, it would seem that any DA that has been around long enough to be in a contemptor would be part of the inner circle.

[Archaeinox]

Guys in my store are talking about the stormraven being added by i havent seen anything. centurion devs would be cool.

[FlamingDeth]

False, centurions of any variety have never and will never be cool.

 

*standard joking sarcasm disclaimer about subjective opinions being stated as fact*

[The Rogue Gamer]

Well that's the pre order done. A bix of intercessers,Aggressors, and hellblasters along with the Lieutenant. That should be a decent start I think.

Along with another lieutenent and a stormraven from ebay.

[Helycon]

Some fun stuff to build and paint then!

 

I've been going back and forth on the Aggressors as well, but ultimately decided not to get them. They are OK for what they are, but suffer from overcharged plasma- and autocannon- syndrome. They just die easily with the meta using these weapons a lot. Also, I think a lot of people are reading the gauntlets wrong, and thinking the boltstorms do 12 shots each total, when it's actually 6 shots total. Still not bad, but it does cut the firepower in half. The models are great though and I reckon people will underestimate how quickly you get in their face with 18 bolter shots, not even including the grenade launchers. I bet they can do some work nonetheless.

[Stoic Raptor]

Don't forget they can fire twice if they didn't move - so yes, you can get 12 bolter shots out of a single Aggressor in that case.

[Helycon]

Don't forget they can fire twice if they didn't move - so yes, you can get 12 bolter shots out of a single Aggressor in that case.

Sure , but I really feel your opponent is not even trying if that happens.

[Pvnisher]

I’m getting a few storm ravens myself.

[Ishagu]

 

Don't forget they can fire twice if they didn't move - so yes, you can get 12 bolter shots out of a single Aggressor in that case.

Sure , but I really feel your opponent is not even trying if that happens.

This actually happens more often than you'd think. Also it happens when they fire overwatch.

[Helycon]

 

 

Don't forget they can fire twice if they didn't move - so yes, you can get 12 bolter shots out of a single Aggressor in that case.

Sure , but I really feel your opponent is not even trying if that happens.

This actually happens more often than you'd think. Also it happens when they fire overwatch.

If they stood still on their turn, then yes. Otherwise, they don't.

[Stoic Raptor]

If you're using them to their best, that will happen frequently.  Advance when necessary, providing your own suppressing fire.  Find a good spot where you can cover a wide area and reduce incoming threat, and stay there until that sector is secure.

They can really discourage your opponent from trying shenanigans.

[Helycon]

If you're using them to their best, that will happen frequently. Advance when necessary, providing your own suppressing fire. Find a good spot where you can cover a wide area and reduce incoming threat, and stay there until that sector is secure.

They can really discourage your opponent from trying shenanigans.

This also varies wildy from armies and opponents. I still feel that if you get the chance to do this, your opponent vastly underestimated them and let them just move to get into position. They easy to kill really, which doesn't bode too well for them. Opponent can also easily outmanoeuvre, depending on the army. Anything that wants to charge will do so and wreck them, or be quick enough to ignore them. The other option is an enemy gunline which is hard to just stand still for, for a turn, and not get obliterated.

 

I'd rather have more Hellblasters ;) .

[Stoic Raptor]

You've just listed a number of reasons why opponents underestimate them. 

And you're seriously going to charge a unit that can fire up to 72 shots on overwatch and had two power fists each?    In my own experience, unless it's a really tough unit charging, the few that make it through might take some with them, but tend to get beaten to death.  Your opponent's other choice is to keep out of their range and pick them off - in which case you've restricted the enemy's maneuvering.

 

Hellblasters are far better for some purposes, but they're not always the right tool for the job - against a mob, I'd rather have the volume of fire and mobility an Aggressor unit offers.  But every discussion I've had about the strength of a particular unit seems to be met with considerations that presume it's the only unit on the table.  You have other units, and they're still doing their thing.  this doesn't take place in a vacuum.  Much like the discussions about the Redemptor or the Repulsor.  If your opponent is pouring all their fire into one unit or moving differently because of them, then you have succeeded in controlling the tempo of the battle.

 

Too many players think like mathematicians instead of battlefield commanders.  Your units have strengths, they have weaknesses, they have specific purposes, they have advantages when used in unexpected ways, and ultimately they are expendable if their loss secures victory.  The difference here is, you don't have to write letters home to their next of kin telling of their brave sacrifice.

[The Rogue Gamer]

Much like the discussions about the Redemptor or the Repulsor.

Pray tell. What is the discussions about the Redemptor and the Repulsor?

 

I didn't look to those units as nobody seemed to have an opinion to share. I'd like to know the benefits of from some one that's not just math hammering it out and has experience.

[Helycon]

You've just listed a number of reasons why opponents underestimate them.

And you're seriously going to charge a unit that can fire up to 72 shots on overwatch and had two power fists each? In my own experience, unless it's a really tough unit charging, the few that make it through might take some with them, but tend to get beaten to death. Your opponent's other choice is to keep out of their range and pick them off - in which case you've restricted the enemy's maneuvering.

 

Hellblasters are far better for some purposes, but they're not always the right tool for the job - against a mob, I'd rather have the volume of fire and mobility an Aggressor unit offers. But every discussion I've had about the strength of a particular unit seems to be met with considerations that presume it's the only unit on the table. You have other units, and they're still doing their thing. this doesn't take place in a vacuum. Much like the discussions about the Redemptor or the Repulsor. If your opponent is pouring all their fire into one unit or moving differently because of them, then you have succeeded in controlling the tempo of the battle.

 

Too many players think like mathematicians instead of battlefield commanders. Your units have strengths, they have weaknesses, they have specific purposes, they have advantages when used in unexpected ways, and ultimately they are expendable if their loss secures victory. The difference here is, you don't have to write letters home to their next of kin telling of their brave sacrifice.

I absolutely realise this. The problem is, people seem to think that those 72shots always happen. They will rarely happen. You'll generally get 25 when you advance. They will seldom stand still, because their range is short. Sure, your opponent needs to divert and choose which unit to fire at. Problem is, this massive firebase just isn't tough enough. They die easily to overcharged plasma and autocannons, and especially the latter is abundant. Since they advance most of the timethey will also be in range quite handily, making sure they're an easy target too.

 

I'm not too impressed by them and would rather grab some other units, like a Razorback that has a bit less shooting but better bullets, is a ton and a half tougher, can ferry stuff around and can even function as blocking terrain. I know it's more expensive too, but as a tactical choice, it feels more solid.

[Stoic Raptor]

Pray tell. What is the discussions about the Redemptor and the Repulsor?

 

Many dismiss their power because they are allegedly fire-magnets, guaranteed to go down the first turn.

Yeah? Well, it takes a lot of firepower to bring one down on Turn One (assuming I'm an idiot who doesn't know how to move and stay out of line-of-sight) but if you want to shoot everything you have at one model, go right ahead.  It's not the only model in my army and when the rest of my army is all up in your business, you're not going to have the luxury of choice. :)

 

They die easily to overcharged plasma and autocannons, and especially the latter is abundant. Since they advance most of the time they will also be in range quite handily, making sure they're an easy target too.

 

 

Then those autocannons and plasma aren't shooting your Hellblasters or your Dreadnought or whatever other powerful units you have.  But if your opponent lets them get into range, then they're going to be "easy targets" too.  A smart opponent won't give them that chance - but that means moving away from them to keep range while they're rushing 1/4 of the way across the table in one turn.  And if your opponent stands to fight, they're going to get blindsided by some other unit that's been allowed to move up without being suppressed.

 

Try taking a more holistic view of your forces, find the synergy.  Stop considering each unit in a vacuum, it's not the only one on the table.  Stop letting some theoretical weakness keep you from using it for whatever particular purpose it excels at.

 

A 3-man Aggressor Squad can lay down as much fire in a turn as an entire10-man rapid-firing squad of Intercessors or Tactical Marines... while Advancing.  And they're more durable while doing it.  Surely you don't make the same arguments against using Tacticals or Intercessors, do you?

[Helycon]

Read my post, I'm not seeing them in a vacuum. The problem is, you kill them with ease in 1 turn. Then the rest can be targeted. Due to their short range, your opponent can either ignore them for now and focus on other stuff that is more dangerous, or kill them before they get a chance to become a threat. Like I said, I'd rather have something like a Razorback.

 

The problem they have, is simply the fact it's 6w at T5, with a very limited threat range. It's not very scary or difficult to deal with and I'd rather shoot at something else and deal with them when they get closer, which you can easily do. Their threat range is also dependant on a dice roll, which is hit-or-miss. It's just not a very impressive unit for the points. Inceptors seem a lot more useful here.

[Stoic Raptor]

I'm not seeing them in a vacuum. The problem is, you kill them with ease in 1 turn. Then the rest can be targeted. 

 

That's a "vacuum" - it's operating under the assumption that only the unit you are targeting will do anything that turn, and that everything else is just standing around at port arms, waiting for you to shoot it next turn.

Guess what? All those other units can shoot back - likely at the unit that is shooting at the big target. So that unit that "killed with ease" can also be "killed with ease" - then what do you do?

 

And I think it's hilarious that you use that rationale and then say Inceptors are more useful.  They have the same toughness and wounds as an Agressor and are pretty much guaranteed to die after their alpha strike.

 

Still, if Aggressors are easy to kill, what do you use instead of the weaker Intercessors and Tactical Marines?  Because they have a lower volume of fire, less toughness, and not much more in the way of range.

[Helycon]

 

I'm not seeing them in a vacuum. The problem is, you kill them with ease in 1 turn. Then the rest can be targeted. 

 

That's a "vacuum" - it's operating under the assumption that only the unit you are targeting will do anything that turn, and that everything else is just standing around at port arms, waiting for you to shoot it next turn.

Guess what? All those other units can shoot back - likely at the unit that is shooting at the big target. So that unit that "killed with ease" can also be "killed with ease" - then what do you do?

 

And I think it's hilarious that you use that rationale and then say Inceptors are more useful.  They have the same toughness and wounds as an Agressor and are pretty much guaranteed to die after their alpha strike.

 

Still, if Aggressors are easy to kill, what do you use instead of the weaker Intercessors and Tactical Marines?  Because they have a lower volume of fire, less toughness, and not much more in the way of range.

 

It's not a vacuum. I know other units can still act after they have been wiped out. It's just so easy to wipe them out, it's not a useful unit for it's points. They're easily killable before they get to act, since they footslog everywhere, unless you put a massive amount of points in a transport for them, which also isn't great. They can focus on those other units before they get useful.

 

Just using tacticals is daft, and they're overpriced. Scouts are a lot more useful with camo cloaks in cover, avoiding deepstrking units from doing so and being stubborn as hell. They're cheaper and have more range, albeit with less shots. They can get into a razorback once they need to move and have obsec. 

 

Inceptors can drop in and have a guarentuee to at least 18 shots at higher strength and better AP. They can even charge to be annoying and fall back and still shoot. 

 

Anyhow, the discussion is getting old. You like em, I don't. We seem to have different playstyles and that's fine :) .