Re-using names

[Ascanius]

I have a specific example in mind, but I'm interested to find out what people think about re-using names and nicknames of chapters, regiments, and other organisations.

 

There are existing examples of Space Marine chapters being given the same name, either because the original was wiped out or because of miscommunication between different parts of the Imperial bureaucracy (including about whether or not the original was wiped out).

 

There are dozens and dozens of Space Marine chapters that only exist as a name mentioned in passing, without even a colour scheme from a page of examples in White Dwarf to their name. Even when you do have a name and a colour scheme, and even more concrete information such as lineage or location, the galaxy is a big place, you will not be missed, and nor is anyone that likely to object if you suggest the old once-mentioned chapter was wiped out and replaced.

 

There have also been plenty of mentions that the Ultima Founding includes resurrections of destroyed chapters as all-Primaris replacements, of course. There's also an explicit mention in The Devastation of Baal that the name of the Knights of Blood will be allowed to die with them, due to their corruption.

 

The example I've been thinking about for my own chapter, though, was prompted by listening to the audiobook of Shattered Legions, and the story of Shadrak Meduson, who was part of the X Legion when they were called the Storm Walkers prior to the discovery of Ferrus Manus on Medusa.

 

Now, "Storm Walkers" is a very cool name, and it immediately occurred to me that it's an appropriate name for a fleet-based chapter of the Ultima Founding intended to "sail" the Warp storms spilling out of the Cicatrix Maledictum and scour them of threats. Similar to the Rift Stalkers, for instance.

 

I'm not sure if there's something different, though, about using old nicknames for the Great Crusade-era Legions. Is it presumptuous, for instance?

 

On the other hand, I had the notion that Primaris Space Marines of Ferrus Manus's lineage but not of Medusan origin might be rejected by the Iron Hands - "You shall not dilute your strength by fighting alongside those not of Medusa" and all that - and other successor chapters with similarly intolerant attitudes, and deliberately reach back to the pre-Medusan name of the Legion as a way of laying claim to their genetic heritage in a way the Medusans can't deny them.

 

As it turns out, there's a White Scars successor chapter already called the Stormwalkers, and they're exactly the kind of one-or-two-mentions-ever chapter that could easily have been wiped out and be ripe for replacement.

 

But I'm interested to hear both what you think about reusing names in general, and my specific idea.

[Marshal Rohr]

No one would remember, honestly. The records were purged, most of the Iron Hands were killed, and your chapter would have to have contact with the Iron Hands to even be called on it if they did remember.

 

Using the same names is one of those cool little tricks you can do that reinforce the scale, bureaucracy, and length of existence of Imperial History. It’s also a cool like ‘history rhymes’ trope. Personally, I’d avoid them sharing anything except the name.

[Sandlemad]

Building on that, it's pretty likely that multiple chapters/organisations that appear to have the same name only really do so in the context of a column on some imperial bureaucrat's spreadsheet. Look at the confusion around the Carcharodon Astrae. That is how they identify themselves in high gothic but sometimes that comes through as 'Space Sharks' or simply 'Carcharodons' in low gothic, while sometimes observers use other titles like 'Void Reapers', and they might well refer to themselves as something different in their own tongue.. Consequently the Carcharodons get confused with other chapters with similar moniker, even though they probably arrived at those names for completely different reasons and might not even recognise the other chapter as 'really' having the same name.

 

It is entirely possible that this White Scars successor chapter might refer to themselves in their native tongue as something like 'Those Who Stride Purposefully Through The Tempest of Hard Decisions' or 'The Marching Host That Brings The Hurricane'. The bureaucrat on Terra inspecting the campaign records puzzles over it, shrugs, and translates it crudely as 'Storm Walkers'. Completely different context and meaning to the chapter than to the central imperial organisation fitting the name onto a map or into some annals. Not just miscommunication but spiraling miscommunication. Your Ultima Founding could accidentally arrive at approximately the same name in said records even though they're coming from a completely different angle.

[Mileposter]

((Pure Genious))

... I was going to contribute something about the amazing thing with bureaucracy in the Imperium and records... But then this Frater went and said things so eloquently.

 

I mean, sheesh. Friggin' cool people.

 

Good job, by the way.

[Ascanius]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I do really like the name, so I think I'll stick with it.

 

I wonder about some of the Traitor Legions' old names, though. Might there be chapters named War Hounds, Dusk Raiders, or Iconoclasts today?

[Knight of the Raven]

Guilliman might get nostalgic about older, simpler times or grateful about loyalists from the traitor legions who helped him enough to entertain such names.

 

The real problem is the Chaos legions and warbands themselves.

 

Do you think someone like Lorgar or Mortarion would allow anyone to frolic about with names reeking of blind loyalty to the lying tyrant that is the Corpse Emperor? They'd be hunted down like dogs the second the relevant primarchs heard of them, if their sons don't do it first.

[Ace Debonair]

Guilliman might get nostalgic about older, simpler times or grateful about loyalists from the traitor legions who helped him enough to entertain such names.

 

The real problem is the Chaos legions and warbands themselves.

 

Do you think someone like Lorgar or Mortarion would allow anyone to frolic about with names reeking of blind loyalty to the lying tyrant that is the Corpse Emperor? They'd be hunted down like dogs the second the relevant primarchs heard of them, if their sons don't do it first.

The galaxy's a big place, though.

 

There's no guarantee the traitor Primarchs would ever even hear about your DIY Chapter, let alone track them down across potentially the entirety of the galaxy, through whatever other obstacles might be in the way.

 

 

Conversely, you could have exactly that happen, and as they come under attack from an ancient, powerful enemy that will certainly destroy them, with no backup from other Imperial forces, you could have your Chapter pondering if they were just given their name to bait the Traitor Legions into taking action a long way from anywhere important.

 

Plenty of room for possibilities, I think!

[Ascanius]

I'm kind of surprised there isn't a chapter called the Imperial Heralds, to be honest.

[Marshal Rohr]

I promise you there definitely would be a chapter called the Imperial Heralds. It’s a great name.

[Sandlemad]

Hell, 'Bearers of the Word' is good itself. Folks involved in founding a new chapter might know better but in ten thousand years there has almost certainly been obscure ecclesiarchal orders or missionary cults with that name somewhere in the galaxy.

[Severus6]

I think that it would be "open season" for names as long as they didn't take the names of First Founding Chapters; loyalist or traitor....as you said their are plenty of Chapters that have been destroyed,lost to history, gone rogue or turned to chaos, and subsequently some have been revived. I believe your options are broad and wide.

 

Sev

[Kinstryfe]

I'm not sure we totally know who and how gets to name a newly founded Chapter, so that could influence it a lot. First reading your question I thought nope, not something as sacred as the first founding. But then you explained it's a new Primaris chapter and I realized that that's pretty much the only circumstance I could see it occurring in with that if purposeful origin. I'd say it could happen in unrelated circumstances, but with the fluff line being that there are about a thousand Chapters of Astartes, I'd think random matches would be fairly few, if any. Across other institutions it'd change a lot. I'd guarantee that there are numerous cases of Storm Walkers as guard regiments, PDFs, mercenary bands, local religions, sports teams, bands, kindergarten classes, etc etc etc just due to the sheer volume of humans out there.

 

Special note on the former traitor names: the Imperium is paradoxical in that it has a very poor memory and very long memory at the same time. I feel that these are likely sort of warning signs in Imperial databases, because for every band of War Hounds who were loyalists trying to reclaim the name, there's likely another group of renegades who just wanted to kill stuff without the crazy big dude in charge. I'd consider it a cultural taboo, and a new chapter coming forth and decreeing "What we do we do in service of Him on Terra. As he is our Warmaster, so shall we be his War Hounds" would likely get a talking to really quickly (by Imperial standards) and told to take a mulligan before the Inquisition rolls up.

[Leonaides]

If i recall, and the source eludes me now, the new chapter master of a new chapter is the one who decides the new name and heraldry, and it is checked against the data vaults on terra to make sure it doesnt clash with an existing chapter. There was a fluff piece somewhere about a captain spending 3 years or so meditating about the new chapter he would be leading and had to change the heraldry a bit because it was the same as another chapter he had never heard of...