Post-Codex - Are the Archangels viable yet?

[Aothaine]

I'm confused what you mean? Homers go in your own deployment zone

 

 

It is indeed. Hmm... maybe this won't work without land raiders then. Or perhaps just deploy the homers at the edge of deployment then the normal terminators behind cover. Deep strike in the assault squads and characters then use the homers to jump the terminators up the field into firing range then?

[Charlo]

 

I'm confused what you mean? Homers go in your own deployment zone

 

 

It is indeed. Hmm... maybe this won't work without land raiders then. Or perhaps just deploy the homers at the edge of deployment then the normal terminators behind cover. Deep strike in the assault squads and characters then use the homers to jump the terminators up the field into firing range then?

 

But the homers are in your own deployment zone and you need to teleport to within 6" of them... They aren't going to get you up the table :P

 

Just an normal teleport can be anywhere over 9" from the opponent, so use that to go up field? 

[Aothaine]

 

 

I'm confused what you mean? Homers go in your own deployment zone

 

 

It is indeed. Hmm... maybe this won't work without land raiders then. Or perhaps just deploy the homers at the edge of deployment then the normal terminators behind cover. Deep strike in the assault squads and characters then use the homers to jump the terminators up the field into firing range then?

 

But the homers are in your own deployment zone and you need to teleport to within 6" of them... They aren't going to get you up the table

 

Just an normal teleport can be anywhere over 9" from the opponent, so use that to go up field? 

 

 

 

Okay so say you toss down the normal terminators behind los blocking terrain. Put the homers as far up your deployment zone as you can. Turn 1 you teleport max distance away from the homer (6") towards your opponent. Then you teleport strike in the assault terminators.

 

Just a interesting way to bring in your back-line shooting terminators without having them too exposed on the first turn if you don't go first.

[Charlo]

Ah I get ya now!

 

Still, seems a waste when you can just keep them back and teleport in and use the homer as an "OH  " button.

[Aothaine]

Ah I get ya now!

 

Still, seems a waste when you can just keep them back and teleport in and use the homer as an "OH  " button.

 

Yeah for sure. But if you place the objectives correctly they will get teleported right onto them so you can potentially hold 4-5 of the objectives. That is unless your opponent drops some Obssec nearby.

[Remtek]

If they added a blanket rule of ignoring all -1 weapons for infantry in terminator armour that would go a long way to fix them. 

[Emicus]

Just make 'em only take 1wound maximum regardless of weapon D and 3++ for regular 2++ for stormshield!

 

Or maybe IGNORE D1 weapons to show their contempt of such puny guns? If it ain't a lascannons it doesn't hurt..

 

Terminators should be filthy OP in terms of rules and have the points to match.

[Panzer]

Many ways to fix them outside of reducing their points and also many ways to make them potentially broken by accident (especially since it would also affect already very durable units like Deathshrouds, Blightlords, Paladins and the TSon Terminators). I don't think GW will ever get creative with basic Terminator armor rules.

[Charlo]

I think all things considered they're not bad now. Certainly better than before.

 

Massed heavy bolters are probably the biggest threat in this day and age, as well as overcharged plasma.

[Bonzi]

Yes. Sort of. Viable in tourney? No, probably not. Viable in pickup games at a store? Yes.

 

I just ran a triple vanguard list with 20 terminators, 2 furiosos, one death dred, 10 death company, a Terminator Ancient, sang priest, chappy, and Lib Dred against a Cadian AM list with five Russes, 3 sentinels, 70+ infantry and Pask.

 

It was supposed to be a quick pickup game for me to lose fast so we could leave in time for an event. By turn 4 when we called it we were at a drawn and I had a good chance to win the game if we had gone on. My opponent who is a veteran player remarked that my list was so outside of current meta of shooting/hordes that his list wasn't set up to deal with it. As the meta pushes more and more to shooting and or horde assault we may find Archangel lists more effective because they are unusual.

[Arkangilos]

So what's the point of a homer now? (I won't be able to look at rules for another 10 or 11 months most likely)

[Bonzi]

Same as it was in index I believe. It's a free way to recall slow Terminator unis to your own deployment zone if you need to. Handy in malestrom games if you need to prevent line breaker or capture an objective in your done held by the enemy.

[Kallas]

So what's the point of a homer now? (I won't be able to look at rules for another 10 or 11 months most likely)

It's essentially a exit button for the squad. Teleport them in; do your damage; next turn use the Homer to redeploy back to your lines with more supporting units.

 

It can be used to pull your Terminators out of combat, away from encroaching dangerous enemies, to drop back onto home objectives, and/or to support friendly units against threats across the board.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Jolemai
Swear filter dodge

[Arkangilos]

Oh neat!

[Panzer]

Not just a exit button. You can also place it on an objective in your deployment zone and stop caring about it. If you happen to need to go it due drawing that card or to deny the enemy some points or to deny line breaker you could just take your Terminator unit that was having fun on the opposite of the board and jump back. ^^ Edited December 10, 2017 by Jolemai
Swear filter dodge

[Withershadow]

There aren't that many AP-4 or AP-5 weapons that utilize the 5++ invulnerable.  Maybe terminator armor just needs to be a re-rollable save instead?  That way it is still a 5+ save vs. lascannons, and small arms fire pretty much bounces off. 

 

And no one thinks a deep striking 10-man terminator squad with a pair of assault cannons and 36 bolter shots, re-rolling to hit due to stratagem, can make a significant impact?  That's basically 32 bolter hits and 11 hits with assault cannons.  Casualties vs MEQ profile is ~5 from bolters and another ~4 from the assault cannons.  Against screening units like Guardsmen, you kill 14 with bolters and another 7-8 with the assault cannons. 

 

You can then split them into combat squads using another CP (still cheaper than granting two squads a re-roll).

Edited December 10, 2017 by Withershadow

[Panzer]

There aren't that many AP-4 or AP-5 weapons that utilize the 5++ invulnerable.  Maybe terminator armor just needs to be a re-rollable save instead?  That way it is still a 5+ save vs. lascannons, and small arms fire pretty much bounces off. 

 

And no one thinks a deep striking 10-man terminator squad with a pair of assault cannons and 36 bolter shots, re-rolling to hit due to stratagem, can make a significant impact?  That's basically 32 bolter hits and 11 hits with assault cannons.  Casualties vs MEQ profile is ~5 from bolters and another ~4 from the assault cannons.  Against screening units like Guardsmen, you kill 14 with bolters and another 7-8 with the assault cannons. 

 

You can then split them into combat squads using another CP (still cheaper than granting two squads a re-roll).

Not for the points it would cost, no.

 

But yeah being able to re-roll their save or even have a 5+++ instead would go a long way compared to the 5++ they have now.