Lion's Crown Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I loved this game a lot but right now I'm at the point where I sold my 10K pts Necron army without any regret and fear my DA will soon follow the same path. I tried several games but so far it's a damn catastrophy. Nothing work and I'm like oooook. Never came close to get my ass handed like that before. Back to back. My men in green aren't able to do much beside dying. When I face an original list that say, field only vehicles, it's downright funny. I charged 30 cultists with 10 assault marines, lightning claws and all that but still got easily destroyed. I compare points between both squads and realize something is up: I really suck at this edition. So big blobs are the thing now? Mutliple wounds with high thoughness? Because melta and artillery depend of a very random 2D6 and are thus hardly as reliable as they where before. How the hell can you make dedent predictions with these factors? Either you have enough melta or you have a set up to face blobs. They managed to make Sableclaw even worse then it was before, being able to be shot at by anyone. Against any shooty army he's a no go which represent easily more then half of the armies being played. Greenwing have litteraly nothing for it. ATSKNF and that's all. Lol. golly gee. Bikes cost too much for what they do, not enough staying power for the very little punch they offer. Barely any will be able to exchange fire with the ennemy, even while hugging cover, and at cc they are mhe at best. Terminators suffer the same problem as bikes: too little punch for what they cost and their staying power is nothing special. Not when you compare it with vehicles who cost about the same prices for more wounds, more T and more firepower. And now since you have to pay a command point every time you want anything decent then you have to stick to the same list even more so then before. Besides the parking lot which I started to play with but quickly got bored too I don't see anything going on for us. No punch, a little bit of staying power because we are sm but that's about it. It's an army tabled turn 4-5 scenario every time. I've watched replays: everybody seems to suffer the same fate. Unless their opponent downright suck or brought an impossibly bad list. Even when I started as a brand new player in 7th ed I managed to do something. But now it's the :cussing abyss. Anyway to approach the game differently or it's just the way it is? Because I'm affraid the codex won't change much to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Anything constructive to add? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4953955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helycon Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I loved this game a lot but right now I'm at the point where I sold my 10K pts Necron army without any regret and fear my DA will soon follow the same path. I tried several games but so far it's a damn catastrophy. Nothing work and I'm like oooook. Never came close to get my ass handed like that before. Back to back. My men in green aren't able to do much beside dying. When I face an original list that say, field only vehicles, it's downright funny. I charged 30 cultists with 10 assault marines, lightning claws and all that but still got easily destroyed. I compare points between both squads and realize something is up: I really suck at this edition. So big blobs are the thing now? Mutliple wounds with high thoughness? Because melta and artillery depend of a very random 2D6 and are thus hardly as reliable as they where before. How the hell can you make dedent predictions with these factors? Either you have enough melta or you have a set up to face blobs. They managed to make Sableclaw even worse then it was before, being able to be shot at by anyone. Against any shooty army he's a no go which represent easily more then half of the armies being played. Greenwing have litteraly nothing for it. ATSKNF and that's all. Lol. :cuss. Bikes cost too much for what they do, not enough staying power for the very little punch they offer. Barely any will be able to exchange fire with the ennemy, even while hugging cover, and at cc they are mhe at best. Terminators suffer the same problem as bikes: too little punch for what they cost and their staying power is nothing special. Not when you compare it with vehicles who cost about the same prices for more wounds, more T and more firepower. And now since you have to pay a command point every time you want anything decent then you have to stick to the same list even more so then before. Besides the parking lot which I started to play with but quickly got bored too I don't see anything going on for us. No punch, a little bit of staying power because we are sm but that's about it. It's an army tabled turn 4-5 scenario every time. I've watched replays: everybody seems to suffer the same fate. Unless their opponent downright suck or brought an impossibly bad list. Even when I started as a brand new player in 7th ed I managed to do something. But now it's the :cussing abyss. Anyway to approach the game differently or it's just the way it is? Because I'm affraid the codex won't change much to it. Codices will change a lot. It adds rules, playstyles, point costs get adjusted so bikes get more viable, terminators point costs will decrease. And yes, generally, the big weapons are not as good when you roll badly. If you rely on just the one, you're doing it wrong. Also, if it's a critical roll, you can use a stratagem to reroll it. On average, you'll do 3,5 damage with D6 damage weapons. Sounds fine, no? Plasma will be a big staple in DA armies with the chapter tactic and the new stratagem too. You'll be able to hurt almost anything on a 4+ at most when overcharging, which will also do big damage. I feel you had the bad luck of playing games against people who had their codices, where you didn't. That's a major imbalance. Still, people have done pretty well with DA, and yes, the parking lot is pretty strong, so that's the one that got the most attention. Still, it's a big part of what a DA army will be: shooty at the core, with speedy elements to compensate and grab objectives. Terminators aren't great though, since they are easily killed now and not too mobile. Thankfully, we will have access to the Stormraven soon, which will drastically change the mobility of those guys and get them into combat a lot more safely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4953957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Dark Angels players have been through worse in previous editions and kept playing. The new Dark Angels Codex is also going to come out in about a week and a half. Be patient and try something different in your games. And charging 10 Marines into 30 Cultists is not the greatest idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4953964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 A unit of 6 bikes with a Storm Bolter Sergeant can dish out 28 bolter shots at 12 inches or closer. Has a T5 and an armor of 3+, with 2 wounds. Add an Attack Bike and bolter shots go up to 32. Add a couple of special weapons, and you do even more damage. its not a cheap squad, but it can, and for my games has, dish out quite some damage. Ive taken down over 30 units of 4+ armored infantry, I have destroyed Crisis Teams with giant Drone Blobs, and even Terminators. It's just about damage saturation. My terminators always drop in teams of 2, dealing out 40 storm bolters shots with rerolls through a Company Master. I have taken down even vehicles with this, scraping off wounds before going for a punch. Advance a Darkshroud into a nearby position for defense. You are good to go. I have parked 20 marines with a Shroud and an Apothecary and held my ground for 4 turns straight against heavy fire. I can see the unreliablity of flamers and other weapons, which is why I never use them. I'd rather go for overcharged plasma, grav weapons, and the like. Weapons that deal a fixed amount of wounds. But even then, rerolls can make a bad damage roll into the one that kills that tank outright. I think you are being way too harsh. Last game I played, I threw my opponent a full ravenwing bike squad, a shroud, 2 squads of terminators, and managed to reduce him to like 10% of his starting army, while loosing only the termiantors, and even then they were gone by turn 5. We have a great army here, and the Codex looks to be something that might give us quite an edge back. 8th edition has its problems... but, I dunno man. Sounds like you need to revisit the army and look at it without the bias that fuels this rant, cause there is A LOT of good and useful stuff, even in the index we currently play. We can do A LOT of damage, and hold our ground pretty well, all things considered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4953969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 My advice os to keep cool, see how the chips fall. Watch or read battle reports, go to the army list forum, watch other people play. If you still lose in a way that makes you feel bad, then take a break or start a new army that gives you pleasure to play with. It's a hobby and we have to enjoy it or there's no point in it, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4954049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCore67 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Idk how you're having trouble with bikes. Mine do very well in all the games ive played so far. The fact that theyre getting cheaper is icing on the cake. I run mine in squads of 6 with two plasma and combi-plasma on the sarge Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4954224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 @ Lion's Crown - Going through your entire rant, I'm more inclined to think that maybe you still have trouble transitioning from 7th to 8th. 7th has brought a lot of paradigm shifts that needs to change the way we all used to play. Like melta vs anti-armour. Maybe you still expect Melta to destroy in one shot. Not anymore, but that doesn't mean it isn't good at all against vehicles and in fact, is now more useful as character or multi wound infantry killers, like Terminators, tyranid warriors, Thunderwolf. I'm actually shifting back to Melta in my squads instead of going pure plasma troops. The way you talk, you are only thinking of X unit vs Y unit not doing well. Nowhere did I hear about combination and synergy in your rant. This is 8th Edition. Synergy is key. Even the big blobs you mention won't work without the characters or units to make them work. You have to countery synergy with your own synergy, and I believe Dark Angels even with just Greenwing, still got it with their Captain, Lieutenant and now Primaris. Can I suggest before you sell off your DA, please talk more with your group to see not just what list you bring, but HOW you play the game. that's the thing that counts, so that even if you lose, you still have a great game. Please don't lose hope and spread negativity at the same time. It's ok to feel down and we'll gladly help you back on your feet, but a tantrum is unproductive and indicates you're not here to learn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4954309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 When someone creates a new account to post a rant that basically boils down to "git gud". Generally, the best way to troubleshoot a situation is to identify the one common factor in all of the processes that fail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4954329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 When someone creates a new account to post a rant that basically boils down to "git gud". Generally, the best way to troubleshoot a situation is to identify the one common factor in all of the processes that fail. I'll give this guy the benefit of the doubt first, and try to post helpful advice. Truth be told, I have also done my fair share of rants on B&C, although I was more depressed than angry. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332442-tired-young-wolf/ http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338748-am-i-being-a-stubborn-old-fool/ If possible, I would like to help Lion get back his mojo. Let's see his maturity next time he responds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4954361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Raeven Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Ranting rarely recieves my sympathy, it's usually just an avalanche of negativity. Having a high probability of winning games shouldn't be the focus of your enjoyment, the game itself should be your enjoyment. It's the gameplay that is memorable, not who won the damn thing. The timing is also bad, it's one big post of complaining when our Codex comes out in a week. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4954565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I'm seeing someone playing a 7th edition list, making no attempt to change or adapt it, and not liking how it performs in 8th. Wait for the codex, look at how it works, adjust your army, list and tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4954572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Its important to stay positive and constructive; and to remember to ENJOY the game. Which does not mean to win it, necessarily. Having fun is not the same as winning. In fact, its not even the same as PLAYING! I will share a project I'm on, later, that has been tons of fun m, and has involved me a lot more in the hobby, to explain what I mean ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4954597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 If those 30 cultists had multiple wounds and high toughness as you say, you need to have a word with your opponent. 10 assault marines Vs 30 cultists should only go one way. Twin flamers and pistols kill 7 on the way in. 18 chainsword attacks is another 6 dead, claw armed serge is another kill. Break test roll of 1 plus casualties is maybe 15, minus the LD of what, 5? Causing another 10 casualties. The 15 cultists attacking back should be 5 wounds and 1-2 dead ASM for 25 dead cultists. Either you're exaggerating, or really bad at rolling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4955473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion's Crown Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 First of all thank you for the replies. They where all very useful. I wanted honest, direct responses and I got them. I spoke with the community (I play in different cities), with the store manager of our local Games Workshop store, online, etc. before posting here. My conclusion is that my problem is with the fact that some esthetic parts of the game where sacrified in order to simplify it which I perfectly understand. A lot of people where requesting these changes. GW business is thriving which is another proof that they made the right move. In the end you guys like this version which is all good. I wish you all the fun and the luck in the world. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4955719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I still don't understand. You did well with the more complex ruleset, however now are not doing so well in the simplified rulset, and this is the game's fault? You sold the necrons because they don't steamroller everyone like they used to in 7th? Were you playing games of Index vs Codex? Having Necrons and Dark Angels, it seems that way. I would at least wait to see what happens when your armies get codexes instead of selling them off. In the end you guys like this version which is all good. I wish you all the fun and the luck in the world. I'f you'd hang around the forums longer, you'd see that this is not the case. If you hang around the forums longer still, you'll find many competitive players who will help you regain your armies edge and help you adjust to 8th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4955927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Have you played with the new codex yet? I know some people use what they find on the internet and use them before the codex is released. Is this the case or are you just using an index? If not, how come you are not giving the new codex a chance? I understand where you are coming from. I have quit playing for various of reasons. That said, playing Dark Angels takes something special. It's one of those armies you play because you like them. I have made a small (ok not so small post) about them. If you read this, remember it's not an attack on you, but it was more of a thing for me to remember how I lost my way. I hope this helps. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341427-a-forge-world-christmas-2017-congrats-jlmb-123/?p=4942291 As others have said, there is no shame in taking a break. I have taken a very long one a few times. Maybe Dark Angels are not for you. We all play for different reasons and it just could be that Dark Angels just doesn't suit your play style. Again nothing wrong with that. I hope you can find something that does give you joy and goes with your play style. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4956671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion's Crown Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share Posted December 11, 2017 Rolf I was known to bring very unorthodox lists with my Necrons and to consult with my opponent before a match to make sure I wouldn't roll over them. It's kinda hilarious to see you guys make assumptions just because I don't like this edition. As such I sold my Necrons before knowing if they where any good and I don't regret my decision at all so don't bother telling me I should have waited. Here I'll make things simple for you to understand. - I like the new balance of course that's the best part. - I like the fact that the games are quicker (altought I didn't really mind before). - I *really* dislike the esthetic of play of 8th. A tank shooting by his ass is ugly and I refuse to play the parking lot even if I win with it. It's just downright dumb to have marines hug an almost stationnary bubble like that. Leave that :cuss to the blue bellies. - I dislike the oversimplification of the rules so I realized I'm really not motivated to go into the finer details (yes I'm guilty of that). I don't think going further over the reasons I like or not this edition would be constructive or bring anything new to the discussion: It's just how I feel. Thank you for the encouragements HsojVvad I got the information I was looking for by coming here. I might keep the army as an excuse to see old friends if the codex perform a minimum but honestly the reviews are pretty terrible so far. Ha well. We'll see after a few playtests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4956723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 +++ Okay, thanks for that perspective Lion’s Crown. I’m safe to assume that the constructive discussion is over. If anyone wishes to add something worthwhile pm me. Case closed. +++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342085-angry-geek-rant-of-the-week/#findComment-4956765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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