All Primaris, a different look at BA in 8th.

[Blindhamster]

Having two is useful for combat squading. Btw, do we have the stratagem to combat squad at any point during a game.

[Charlo]

Looking at Reivers myself and they seem.... Very desirable for us:

• Deploy close to the enemy to put pressure on
• Can be a first wave to deal with chaff
• High volume of attacks to benefit from red thirst
• Stun Grenades can be combined with one of our premier assault units to stop Overwatch
• Relatively cheap (20pts each) for ten that nets you 20 power armored wounds to chew through

[Ishagu]

Reivers are good, but the Inceptors are so cheap and shooty.

Do the reiver grav shoots work for the purpose of the 3D6 charge stratagem?

[Panzer]

Reivers are good, but the Inceptors are so cheap and shooty.

Do the reiver grav shoots work for the purpose of the 3D6 charge stratagem?

Unfortunately not. They are no Jump Pack infantry.

 

Inceptors and Reivers are definitely the two Primaris units I want to focus the most on...problem is that Primaris are overall so expensive that there is not much room to focus on anything if you want to build a more or less balanced list lol

Edited December 8, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Ishagu]

I think Primaris infantry is the most efficient PA equivalent there is, points wise.

You'll see in games, the extra wounds and attacks make a big difference.

[Panzer]

Not doubting that. My point was that you don't really have much room to focuss on a specific unit while taking other Primaris units you need as well. It's possible to some degree but not as much as for armies with cheaper units. ^^

[Aothaine]

Not doubting that. My point was that you don't really have much room to focuss on a specific unit while taking other Primaris units you need as well. It's possible to some degree but not as much as for armies with cheaper units. ^^

 

I think that is the trade off though. Through everything I've read about space marines the majority have the same equipment. There are a few specialists but I think that GW went over board with the units with all special weapons like the vets. The bolter is and was supposed to be this amazing weapon and I think the intecessors have what GW most likely should have had it at this entire time. I mean they shoot explosive frag rounds. They should shred armor. 

 

So I'm not too upset with static appearance and load out of the intecessors and most primaris for that matter. Primaris are still expensive but you have to look what they are kitted out with. 2 Wounds and a built in chainsword on a unit with a 30" -1AP 1D Rapid Fire 1 weapon. They are crazy strong and even more so in the Blood Angels dex where if they are charged or are charged in return they get +1 to wound. Throw a priest nearby and they are wounding space marines on 2+ as if they had str 8. 

 

I have not fully embraced the Primaris and only look to the older marines now for specific units such as Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. But I honestly don't think they are required. We can make use of every stratagem with the primaris line + vehicles & Dreadnoughts. 

 

The model count will be slightly smaller but they should provide more wounds and be quite a bit more resilient. 

[Blindhamster]

I'll be playing some games in the new year for my birthday. Thinking of running this (note that it isn't necessarily the most practical, however it makes use of most of the models I've built:

 

HQ
Primaris Captain [Power Sword and Master Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle] - 95
Primaris Lieutenant [Power Sword] - 74

Elites
Primaris Apothecary - 68
Primaris Ancient [banner of Sacrifice] - 69
Reivers [10 reivers, grapnels and combat blades] - 200

Troops
Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Grenade Launcher, Bolt Rifles] - 91
Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Grenade Launcher, Bolt Rifles] - 91
Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90
Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90
Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90
Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90

Fast Attack
Inceptor Squad [3 Inceptors, Dual Assault bolters] - 135
Inceptor Squad [3 Inceptors, Dual Assault bolters] - 135
Inceptor Squad [3 Inceptors, Dual Plasma Exterminators] - 177

Heavy Support
Hellblaster Squad [5 Hellblasters, Plasma Incinerators] - 165
Hellblaster Squad [5 Hellblasters, Plasma Incinerators] - 165
Hellblaster Squad [5 Hellblasters, Heavy Plasma Incinerators] - 175

 

exactly 2000 points (which is the size games we will be playing) and has 12 command points to play with, 68 models (149 wounds).

 

I'd consider maybe having the Reivers be two small squads as well to be honest, but that doesnt impact points.

 

The Hellblasters would hang back with the ancient and captain, the idea is that the ancient allows for them to keep fighting, and avoid dying, whilst the Captain makes them do a better job, I obviously also have the option to move the rapid fire units around if I need to. 

 

The Intercessors would be moving toward all the objectives in objective games. Reivers come in on a flank wherever it looks best to do so, and the Inceptors are there to harry the enemy and probably make use of Upon Wings of Fire to get to different targets as the game requires.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Panzer]

 

Not doubting that. My point was that you don't really have much room to focuss on a specific unit while taking other Primaris units you need as well. It's possible to some degree but not as much as for armies with cheaper units. ^^

 

I think that is the trade off though. Through everything I've read about space marines the majority have the same equipment. There are a few specialists but I think that GW went over board with the units with all special weapons like the vets. The bolter is and was supposed to be this amazing weapon and I think the intecessors have what GW most likely should have had it at this entire time. I mean they shoot explosive frag rounds. They should shred armor. 

 

So I'm not too upset with static appearance and load out of the intecessors and most primaris for that matter. Primaris are still expensive but you have to look what they are kitted out with. 2 Wounds and a built in chainsword on a unit with a 30" -1AP 1D Rapid Fire 1 weapon. They are crazy strong and even more so in the Blood Angels dex where if they are charged or are charged in return they get +1 to wound. Throw a priest nearby and they are wounding space marines on 2+ as if they had str 8. 

 

I have not fully embraced the Primaris and only look to the older marines now for specific units such as Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. But I honestly don't think they are required. We can make use of every stratagem with the primaris line + vehicles & Dreadnoughts. 

 

The model count will be slightly smaller but they should provide more wounds and be quite a bit more resilient. 

 

Agreed, Primaris on the table feel much more like Space Marines in the fluff than Space Marines on the table do.

That's what you get for not having a minimum points requirement on the Troop section (yes I kinda miss that from back in WHFB :P ) so everyone only spends as few points as possible there to load up on heavy weaponry. You don't have that with Primaris that much. The Bolter are actually worth using, Primaris are more durable than regular Space Marines and even the units with more firepower rely on Bolter to some degree (Inceptors, Reivers and Aggressors).

 

However, I wasn't talking about unit loadouts. I was talking about being able to focus on specific units when building lists. You can take one or two but unless you want a really monotone list you want to take at least some other Primaris units as well and then you are very short on points very quickly (I mean, I could exchange Intercessors with Reivers by taking a Vanguard detachment but then I would have serious CP problems...).

 

 

Anyway, all I want now are more BA specific Primaris like Sanguinary Priest, Jump Pack melee, Sanguinary Guard and so on. No reason why they won't continue with those core traditions just because the new guys are a bit bigger and tougher and come with some fancy new gear. I guess GW doesn't want to overwhelm us tho so it will still take a good while until we might see something like that and who knows maybe there are some fluff explanations for not getting those if it turns out that way. I can be patient that much.

[Panzer]

I'll be playing some games in the new year for my birthday. Thinking of running this (note that it isn't necessarily the most practical, however it makes use of most of the models I've built:

 

HQ

Primaris Captain [Power Sword and Master Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle] - 95

Primaris Lieutenant [Power Sword] - 74

 

Elites

Primaris Apothecary - 68

Primaris Ancient [banner of Sacrifice] - 69

Reivers [10 reivers, grapnels and combat blades] - 200

 

Troops

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Grenade Launcher, Bolt Rifles] - 91

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Grenade Launcher, Bolt Rifles] - 91

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90

 

Fast Attack

Inceptor Squad [3 Inceptors, Dual Assault bolters] - 135

Inceptor Squad [3 Inceptors, Dual Assault bolters] - 135

Inceptor Squad [3 Inceptors, Dual Plasma Exterminators] - 177

 

Heavy Support

Hellblaster Squad [5 Hellblasters, Plasma Incinerators] - 165

Hellblaster Squad [5 Hellblasters, Plasma Incinerators] - 165

Hellblaster Squad [5 Hellblasters, Heavy Plasma Incinerators] - 175

 

exactly 2000 points (which is the size games we will be playing) and has 12 command points to play with.

 

I'd consider maybe having the Reivers be two small squads as well to be honest, but that doesnt impact points.

 

The Hellblasters would hang back with the ancient and captain, the idea is that the ancient allows for them to keep fighting, and avoid dying, whilst the Captain makes them do a better job, I obviously also have the option to move the rapid fire units around if I need to. 

 

The Intercessors would be moving toward all the objectives in objective games. Reivers come in on a flank wherever it looks best to do so, and the Inceptors are there to harry the enemy and probably make use of Upon Wings of Fire to get to different targets as the game requires.

I'd definitely take the Reivers in 2x5 instead. Easier to hide behind LoS blocking terrain and you can cover more ground in case you happen to not wanting them on the same flank.

 

On that note, it's amazing how many more units you can take if you don't try to fit in a Repulsor and a Redemptor! Too bad I don't want to leave any of them out. :D

 

 

Do you plan to build your Apothecary with chalice as Sanguinary Priest or do you hope for GW to release a real Primaris Sanguinary Priest and keep the Apothecary as more of an initiate?

[Blindhamster]

everything you see above is already built, the only thing that needs any building work done is that i'll replace a few shoulder pads with upgrade ones and the plasma inceptors are not on their bases yet.

On that note. my primaris apothecary is built more or less stock, he has a few blood drop pendants added and a BA shoulder pad, but thats it. I plan to do another apothecary at some point using the standard sanguinary priest grail arm, but that will wait for the time being!

 

for reference, beyond whats in the above list...

I also have built:

 

Anniversary sergeant (has a power sword, if a friend let me use that, id probably adjust list a little for it lol).

2x repulsors

1x redemptor

3x aggressors with boltstorm

1x captain with stalker bolt rifle

1x captain with power fist and plasma pistol

1x gravis captain

1x primaris librarian

1x primaris chaplain

4x lieutenants (I have 5 in total, 1 with stalker, 2 with auto and 2 with power swords, 2 stock and the rest are custom)

3x reivers (the snap fit ones)

2x ancients (each one is a slightly different pose/different details)

 

Unbuilt:

5 more intercessors, i dont plan to build them all, just the couple that are in more interesting poses than the multi part ones

1 more gravis captain

soon, 1 blood angel lieutenant

Edited December 8, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Aothaine]

I'll be playing some games in the new year for my birthday. Thinking of running this (note that it isn't necessarily the most practical, however it makes use of most of the models I've built:

 

 

Good spread of Primaris there. I would suggest making two of the intecessor squads have auto-bolt rifles and put one of each flank for that cheeky point grab after advancing on first turn and allowing them to still have 2 shots. 

[Blindhamster]

Only issue, is I don't think I built any with auto bolt rifles atm haha.

 

Also, the auto bolt rifles cost more points!

Edited December 8, 2017 by Blindhamster

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

What is everyone's opinion on auto bolt rifles? I'll probably be picking up 3 boxes of Intercessors tomorrow to get this project started and am currently debating auto vs regular bolt rifles- leaning towards auto at the moment since you have double the firepower with a 30" threat range, potentially higher threat range if you advance. Seems like it'd be better even if you want to play a more static gunline, given the additional shots at max range.

[Aothaine]

I think always having at least 10 intecessors with auto bolt rifles is a good idea. Take them in 5-man units so you have an objsec element that can travel quickly and still have the ability to fire. But the majority of the intecessors on the field should be with the normal bolt rifles. Losing the ap from the weapon is kind of painful imho but is worth it if they are being used to grab objectives that the units with normal bolt rifles will have difficulty getting to.

[Panzer]

I'm trying so hard to find any convincing reason to use auto bolt rifles over regular bolt rifles but so far I've failed lol

[Xerxus]

My main issue with auto bolt rifles is that they cost 1 more point. They give you the option of advancing and still firing which can be useful and deal more damage within certain range spans. They also lose a significant amount of range and deal less damage within other range spans. It's a sidegrade at best which is why paying that extra point feels like a waste. 

[Aothaine]

I'm trying so hard to find any convincing reason to use auto bolt rifles over regular bolt rifles but so far I've failed lol

 

The reason is that it gives you a few options of shooting on a pretty mobile platform. Sure it is not as good as the normal bolt rifle, but these units can allow you to get that point and still shoot at the bad guys. Well worth it imho. I've seen many games lost because a unit could not advance and shoot.

[Panzer]

Well I'll see how much it hurts me not having them in my games and then I can still decide to add them I guess.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

I just noticed that the auto bolt rifle doesn't have the AP -1; I think that does it for me, I'll be going with bolt rifles. The advance and shoot argument doesn't do it for me since the potential threat range of the bolt rifle is the same as the auto bolter, albeit with the benefit of not having to worry about an advance roll- the one nice thing about the auto bolter I see is that you're putting out your maximum number of shots at full range instead of worrying about getting in rapid fire.

[Aothaine]

albeit with the benefit of not having to worry about an advance roll- the one nice thing about the auto bolter I see is that you're putting out your maximum number of shots at full range instead of worrying about getting in rapid fire.

 

Yup. It is a good weapon. A bit shorter ranger but always a rapid firing bolter. Some armies have to deep strike units in to get enough bolters in rapid fire range and the hurricane bolters have proven themselves to be good. A unit of 5 of these guys is an obsec mobile hurricane bolter platform with 10 wounds. Not something to he scoffed at.

 

They can also defend themselves in an assault with MEQ stats and +1 to wound. Blood Angels just make Primaris so much better imho.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Aothaine

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can the Primaris Captain take the relic thunderhammer ?

[Blindhamster]

Can the Primaris Captain take the relic thunderhammer ?

 

nope.

 

another issue with our lack of useful melee relics.

 

primaris captain can have the burning blade in codex marines - which is amazing.

 

ours can have the angels shard... which would be good if it did the extra damage vs stuff like knights etc... but it doesnt, so it sucks.

 

 

in relation to auto bolt rifles vs normal bolt rifles.

 

Another factor, is your meta. There are a number of armies that ignore -1 AP weapons (counting them as 0AP) in these instances the auto bolt rifle is clearly superior. So it comes down to if you have a lot of opponents that use those.

 

 

 

as far as:

 

HQ

Primaris Captain [Power Sword and Master Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle] - 95

Primaris Lieutenant [Power Sword] - 74

 

Elites

Primaris Apothecary - 68

Primaris Ancient [banner of Sacrifice] - 69

Reivers [10 reivers, grapnels and combat blades] - 200

 

Troops

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Grenade Launcher, Bolt Rifles] - 91

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Grenade Launcher, Bolt Rifles] - 91

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90

Intercessor Squad [5 intercessors, Chainsword, Bolt Rifles] - 90

 

Fast Attack

Inceptor Squad [3 Inceptors, Dual Assault bolters] - 135

Inceptor Squad [3 Inceptors, Dual Assault bolters] - 135

Inceptor Squad [3 Inceptors, Dual Plasma Exterminators] - 177

 

Heavy Support

Hellblaster Squad [5 Hellblasters, Plasma Incinerators] - 165

Hellblaster Squad [5 Hellblasters, Plasma Incinerators] - 165

Hellblaster Squad [5 Hellblasters, Heavy Plasma Incinerators] - 175

 

exactly 2000 points (which is the size games we will be playing) and has 12 command points to play with, 68 models (149 wounds).

 

is there anything you'd swap out? Considering I have:

 

 

Anniversary sergeant (has a power sword, if a friend let me use that, id probably adjust list a little for it lol).

2x repulsors

1x redemptor

3x aggressors with boltstorm

1x captain with stalker bolt rifle

1x captain with power fist and plasma pistol

1x gravis captain

1x primaris librarian

1x primaris chaplain

4x lieutenants (I have 5 in total, 1 with stalker, 2 with auto and 2 with power swords, 2 stock and the rest are custom)

3x reivers (the snap fit ones)

2x ancients (each one is a slightly different pose/different details)

 

Unbuilt:

5 more intercessors, i dont plan to build them all, just the couple that are in more interesting poses than the multi part ones

1 more gravis captain

soon, 1 blood angel lieutenant

I might buy 10 more intercessors to make an auto bolt rifle squad as well.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Pendent]

Is the Burning Blade really considered to be strong? I saw it only had one damage and immediately moved on.

[brother_b]

Initially I was very resistant to primaris marines even though the writing was on the wall. I felt that GW was going to dumb-down the lore and awesomeness of our chapter and was bummed because BA models are the nicest in the space marine line.

 

I have turned, somewhat, and feel that yes, the inclusion of new bodies will be something important for Blood Angels. Therefore I've started and am finishing a hellblaster squad.

 

For a whole primaris army I feel we would miss some of the benefits of the BA codex, namely SG and DC.

 

I'm very keen to see how your army plays out. I wish you luck and would love to see the red horde of Primaris in action.

 

So yeah, I'm partly with Seth on this from the heart, but my Dante-brain is telling me Primaris are ok. And hell, they're just as thirsty as their legacy-marine brothers!