Guard in the evolving meta

[Feral_80]

Searchlights have just been made utterly overpriced and useless by jumping from 20 to 40 pts in CA. Just tune your army for short range fire, it's the safest way to play at the moment.

[Galron]

@lash44- I agree that's what they are for but some people get their panties in a bind about it and since some of these are long term friends I keep my really weird armies to a minimum. I think he was mad my 3 Cyclops MVPs that game that he ignored took out Ariman, 3 rubric terminators, and 2 full squads of rubric marines. With the points hike I wont be bringing as many in the future but they will still be there.

 

As to my main list, I use Catachan and absolutely love the twin heavy flamer chimeras. I don't use them as screens. My tanks are the screens for the artillery while my chimeras range out on the flanks going for either objectives or to diffuse the main thrust. Against the genestealer cults and death guard I have used it against so far it seems to work well. Genestealers were actually easier than death guard just because so much fire power has to go to taking down Morty. My last game though I brought a single Cyclops which was hidden next to scatter terrain and popped out and nuked a damaged but still dangerous genestealer squad and the broodlord with mini-me's. Its why I had no problem with the Cyclops slight price hike, they were one of the few FW things under-pointed for what they could do.

 

My Medusas are the current weak link taking a price hike for no damage increase in return when they were already over priced. An extra dice on the # of attacks or an increase in the wounds would have been sufficient.

 

With the point changes I will be changing a few things around for sure. Currently project though is to get my new marine army to at least a unified 3 color minimum(uses a lot of older vehicles that I haven't stripped yet) so guard is for this week, on the back burner. We have an end of the year apoc game I will be fielding guard for so I will be working on it more by then during my week off at the end of the month including 3 superheavies

Edited December 11, 2017 by Galron

[bigmic66]

Double post Edited December 12, 2017 by bigmic66

[bigmic66]

I'd start running mech again if chimeras were cheaper. Maybe a catachan detachment with double flamer chimeras with hflamer and 3 flamer squads. I've found flamers pretty average so far but havnt used with catachan regiment rules.

[walter h]

@bigmic66,the taurox could be a good choice with a lower point cost ,and higher speed. There are also some good kits if you don't want the 4 treads.

[lash144]

Problem is that you can't fit in your officers and other support.

And the AC is not good. I would better take the Gryphonne Pattern Chimera instead. (Especially when using tallarn)

[bigmic66]

Yeah they seem like a decent gunboat for the points. Might take the load off the punisher russes a bit too

[zero88]

If the -1 to hit thing keeps going, we may just see the rise of FRFSRF mechanized Scion squads :D

[lash144]

If you can get them in FRFSRF range thex are pretty sick actually. Even against things like tanks they perform okayish ^^

[lash144]

If the -1 to hit thing keeps going, we may just see the rise of FRFSRF mechanized Scion squads :D

Actually the more I think about it the more I love it :D compare just the Taurox Prime versus the Gryphonne Pattern Chimera, for +17pts you get:

 

- 20 S4 and 8 S4 -1 shots (also hitting on 3s if not moved) vs

- 9 S5 -1 shots

 

I know which one I like more :p

 

Edit: that's not even factoring in possible extra shots from the stormtrooper doctrine.

 

 

But your Scion Squad is more then two times more expensive... I have to run some numbers and compare those to guardsman.

Edited December 12, 2017 by lash144

[Kruso]

The -1 to hit is a bit of an arse for sure.... I haven't played Eldar yet but I played a mission where everyone was at - to hit (and charge and advance) and due to bad luck it lasted the whole game. Crippled my shooting and special Mordian overwatch and the Tyranids were all over me... Only a suicidal brave and lucky Yarrick held up the big beasts for long enough

 

It's certainly getting more widespread and I added a comment when I filled in the community questionnaire about it. Basically said it's not fun for me or the opponent if I can't actually hit anything... Takes any need for terrain or tactics away.

 

I'll have to look at lots of searchlights from Forgeworld I guess, and I've been avoiding taking them so far. Get enough of those and it will almost negate the -1 to hit.

-1 to hit does not work on overwatch as overwatch can't be modified.

[Galron]

That and to charge you, usually 99% of units have to start from within 12" thus also negating the -1 to hit

[Shamansky]

That and to charge you, usually 99% of units have to start from within 12" thus also negating the -1 to hit

But some units or even armies have means to utterly prevent Overwatch

[NatBrannigan]

Overwatch can't be modified? Well that's excellent news!

 

Wished I'd know that 3 weeks ago... I guess I'll have to read the rules properly.

[duz_]

Mordians can though. ;)

[Die4Emprah]

So I've been playing PL, not points. I still use conscripts for all of my screening and bubble wrap. Even if INF squads are better for PL/Points, I only need to make 3 different daisy chains to my Murder Commander (relic-commissar).

 

Sometimes I take the scout walkers to space out the deep striker denial, sometimes I don't care.

I've been taking to running a single line across the scrimmage, using the rest to full in gaps. I move the front line up, suffering casualties, but initiating charges whenever possible, thus forcing bad guys to fall back. Keeps non-guard on the ropes. 

Flyers and stuff that can get deep in behind your lines become priority. Make ample use of "MOVE MOVE MOVE" to cover long distances, take at least 4 Company commanders.

 

I usually have at least 3 LR and 1-2 Manticores in the back field, they're the hammer AND the bait. Most if my inf are wielding "diddly" so opponents want to come mess with my armor. I'm ok with that. Most games are won by objectives, and I've literally covered 3/4ths of the board on foot by turn 4-5.  Couple squads of "rough riders" to keep them guessing, most problems take care of themselves.

[Hawkeye252]

After reading the last post, are people still using Rough Riders or has there been a large shift towards Death Riders? Does it depend on their desired effect?

[Tallarn Commander]

I still use rough riders. I rather like the Death Rider rules. But I think I'd have to model up some tougher looking mounts before I used Death Riders. My little horses don't feel like T4, 2 wound models, with the savage claws rule and a 4+ save. At some point in the future I'll put together a squad of Tallarns on Cold Ones and use the Death Rider rules for them.

 

It won't be cheap, but it will be a fun project that will look cool:

 

$80 for 10 Drakespawn knights, $50 for 10 Victoria Miniatures riders and lances, $20 for 10 Maxmini Desert Dweller heads, $30 for various pouches/bedrolls/jerry cans=$180

[duz_]

It would be great if Deathriders got the Auxilia rule! :) 
I'd definitely be adding them to my list (if I could afford some... :ermm: )

I may use the DKoK models as regular RR's at some point, although I'd rather avoid using Index only entries. 

Deathriders are certainly better than RR's ruleswise though

[depthcharge12]

Still need to try out Guard. Unfortunately my DKoK dont get any strategems/relics per the FAQ so I’ll have to make do with the units alone. I’m running units based around multiple damage at range to challenge my opponent to get closer. Hopefully Death riders, grenadiers, and engineers will see them off.

 

1500 points

(Three detachments - battalion + LoW + HS one)

Karis Venner

Tank commander in Russ with 3HBs

Death rider commander

 

Death rider command squad

10 Engineers

 

2 x 10 Krieg Squads

10 Grenadiers

Command squad

 

2 Heavy Mortars

1 Executioner LR w/LC

3 Autocannons

3 Lascannons

 

Minotaur Artillery Tank

[Withershadow]

Where in the FAQ does it say that?  You can't use Regiment-specific stuff, which means you can't stack another regimental doctrine on top of the Krieg rules, but absolutely nothing stops you from using the rest of the relics, stratagems, warlord traits, etc., because you have all the requisite keywords.

 

For example, my Marshal with memento mori and sword of conquest is a regular monster.

 

You can also use detachments to get some rules on your vehicles.   So bring some Catachan or Tallarn tanks, since the Krieg ones are pretty much blah.  I like to bring Tallarn Russes and Sentinels, or Cadian artillery.  If I need Chimeras, I'll bring Catachans (either with Russes or just in a Vanguard detachment of ancillary support characters like Commissars, Priests, and Psykers).

Edited January 4, 2018 by Withershadow

[depthcharge12]

Where in the FAQ does it say that? You can't use Regiment-specific stuff, which means you can't stack another regimental doctrine on top of the Krieg rules, but absolutely nothing stops you from using the rest of the relics, stratagems, warlord traits, etc., because you have all the requisite keywords.

 

For example, my Marshal with memento mori and sword of conquest is a regular monster.

 

You can also use detachments to get some rules on your vehicles. So bring some Catachan or Tallarn tanks, since the Krieg ones are pretty much blah. I like to bring Tallarn Russes and Sentinels, or Cadian artillery. If I need Chimeras, I'll bring Catachans (either with Russes or just in a Vanguard detachment of ancillary support characters like Commissars, Priests, and Psykers).

Last page:

 

FAQs

Q: Can Death Korps of Krieg, Elysian Drop Troops or Renegades and Heretics Detachments use any of the Regiment- speci c rules (Doctrines, Orders, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, etc.) in Codex: Astra Militarum?

A: No. Instead these units use the bespoke abilities and Orders that are described in Imperial Armour – Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum.

 

See I read that as not being able to use any of the relics or Warlord traits regardless, but maybe you are correct in letting them still doing that.

 

 

I’m not a fan of Guard soup as that’s a bit gamey to me - but to each their own :P the only reason I’d mix and match would be to get some snipers and/or psykers (oh and maybe sentinels cuz they’re cool!).

 

 

Edit: now that I’ve mulled over it I think you are correct. It means regiment specific. I was just afraid because there was nothing explicit in the DKoK book saying you could use IG relics/traits/etc so I though that was reinforcing it.

Edited January 4, 2018 by depthcharge12

[depthcharge12]

Sorry for the double post but allowing DK the relics and strategems opens up a ton of hilarious possibilities.

 

Take for example:

 

•10 engineers with an officer and the dagger relic

 

Pop them out from their outflank next to some multi wound baddies. Open up with carcass shells and use the bring it down order for 2+ rerollable D2 wounds. If that doesn’t kill that unit or there is another assault unit nearby - your opponent will likely put said unit within 6” of your engineers (dagger puts you 9” away from opponent, not a huge stretch of the imagination).

 

Now kick off the grenadiers strategem in the overwatch phase with your unit’s acid grenade bombs and watch your opponent die on the inside.

 

Oh and if you want to be extra cheeki, use the fire on my position strat when the unit dies to some expensive assault unit. I dub this the friend killer combo...just make sure to use the master strategist Warlord trait to ensure your death by dreadsock ;)

Edited January 4, 2018 by depthcharge12

[Withershadow]

Acid grenades are not as good as the shotguns, but sure.  I don't use the dagger, but instead just put them in Catachan chimeras, and run two squads of engineers with Yarrick, the aforementioned commander, and a priest.  They get to re-roll 1s to hit and 1s to wound.  Pretty sweet.

[Tirak]

Sorry for the double post but allowing DK the relics and strategems opens up a ton of hilarious possibilities.

 

Take for example:

 

•10 engineers with an officer and the dagger relic

 

Pop them out from their outflank next to some multi wound baddies. Open up with carcass shells and use the bring it down order for 2+ rerollable D2 wounds. If that doesn’t kill that unit or there is another assault unit nearby - your opponent will likely put said unit within 6” of your engineers (dagger puts you 9” away from opponent, not a huge stretch of the imagination).

 

Now kick off the grenadiers strategem in the overwatch phase with your unit’s acid grenade bombs and watch your opponent die on the inside.

 

Oh and if you want to be extra cheeki, use the fire on my position strat when the unit dies to some expensive assault unit. I dub this the friend killer combo...just make sure to use the master strategist Warlord trait to ensure your death by dreadsock ;)

That's the Krieger Surprise. Mitch and I screwed around with it for a while. The trick to it was to bring a vanguard detachment with 2 Commissars and a Marshall with Momento Mori and a plasma pistol. However when they gutpunched Comissars, it lost a lot of potency in a non Krieg army.