Alternatives for screening

[lash144]

Hey there,

 

Screening = Infantry Squads.

 

That at least to seems to be the norm. But I wanna discuss if someone made experiences with other units for screening your armour?

 

What's about:

 

- Bullgryns?

- Sentinels?

- Hellhounds?

- AdMech Dragoons?

- anything else?

Edited December 8, 2017 by lash144

[CoffeeGrunt]

To be fair, the others don't really seem cheap enough to spam so that you can screen multiple approaches with enough depth of bodies.

[Feral_80]

(Scout) Sentinels definitely yes, simply because of their scout move. The rest depends, because they do not cover enough table space as well as infantry squads do.

 

Now keep in mind that area denial is a thing (Sentinels, Ratlings, and anything with infiltrate-like abilities is great at this), while screening/bubblewrapping is a different one. For the latter, what you want is mainly to absorb charges and keep people over 12" away from your important stuff in the back. For this, infantry squads are great because they can spread out very easily. 

 

This means that ideally you'll want both screening and scouting stuff, but the units that are most suited for each role are different. Some of the units you mention can be a good support, e.g. I love to send my suicidal Hellhounds forward as fast as I can in order to put the advancing enemy under pressure and deal extra damage when they hopefully blow up. Fun fact: the now-improved Artemia hellhound explodes for a whopping d6 rather than d3 mortal wounds.

[CoffeeGrunt]

It does? Holy smokes I need one of those!

[Feral_80]

Aye, must be because it has a really big big fuel tank. I'm trying to outflank a couple of these as Tallarn next games.

[WarriorFish]

Agreed; Infantry Squads are best for screening due to their lower cost and potential table space they can occupy - you're not short on spare Troop slots after all! Scout Sentinels are good for advancing to further reduce enemy deployment options and Hellhounds are great as pickets, both mobile and capable not to mention the special prize potential when the enemy takes them out

[Halfpint100]

(Scout) Sentinels definitely yes, simply because of their scout move. The rest depends, because they do not cover enough table space as well as infantry squads do.

 

Now keep in mind that area denial is a thing (Sentinels, Ratlings, and anything with infiltrate-like abilities is great at this), while screening/bubblewrapping is a different one. For the latter, what you want is mainly to absorb charges and keep people over 12" away from your important stuff in the back. For this, infantry squads are great because they can spread out very easily.

 

This means that ideally you'll want both screening and scouting stuff, but the units that are most suited for each role are different. Some of the units you mention can be a good support, e.g. I love to send my suicidal Hellhounds forward as fast as I can in order to put the advancing enemy under pressure and deal extra damage when they hopefully blow up. Fun fact: the now-improved Artemia hellhound explodes for a whopping d6 rather than d3 mortal wounds.

Where does it say it is d6 wounds? The rulebook is D3 and THE FAQ hasn't changed it. However it is dirt cheap, they reduced the points to 73 and didn't change the price of the main gun.

[lash144]

(Scout) Sentinels definitely yes, simply because of their scout move. The rest depends, because they do not cover enough table space as well as infantry squads do.

 

Now keep in mind that area denial is a thing (Sentinels, Ratlings, and anything with infiltrate-like abilities is great at this), while screening/bubblewrapping is a different one. For the latter, what you want is mainly to absorb charges and keep people over 12" away from your important stuff in the back. For this, infantry squads are great because they can spread out very easily. 

 

 

 

Agreed; Infantry Squads are best for screening due to their lower cost and potential table space they can occupy - you're not short on spare Troop slots after all! Scout Sentinels are good for advancing to further reduce enemy deployment options and Hellhounds are great as pickets, both mobile and capable not to mention the special prize potential when the enemy takes them out

 

 

Scout Sentinels are amazing. I field 3 of them every single game and I have no regrets so far :)

 

 

Regarding Infantry Squads: Sure they are objectively the best screen we got. I´m just kind of reluctant to add non mechanised infantry to my armoured list. (Also I could cry when I think about painting 40 more Guardsmen or so :D)

So I´m looking for some alternatives, especially two are coming always in my mind:

 

1) What with multiple Eversors? You could drop them in anticipation of a charge and just charge yourself. You should kill atleast some models (especially when charging things like Gaunts or Boyz) and tie them up. 

 

2) Stygies Dragoons. I know thats a Guard forum, but I think they might be a pretty good and versatile option:

- they are pretty durable (T6, W6, 4+/6++, -2 to hit)

- they have huge bases, so if you have a squad of 3 or so you can block large areas of space

- they are fast (10")

- they hit like a truck, especially when you spent that 1CP for them

- if you don´t need them to screen, you could also spent a CP and infiltrate them ^^ 

[CoffeeGrunt]

The problem is that those rely on rapidly reacting to a threat, which can be tricky given how fast units can move this edition.

 

A wall of men is simply the best speed bump because they typically can't go around it.

 

I understand why you'd want to avoid painting that many Infantry models though. :P

[Feral_80]

 

(Scout) Sentinels definitely yes, simply because of their scout move. The rest depends, because they do not cover enough table space as well as infantry squads do.

 

Now keep in mind that area denial is a thing (Sentinels, Ratlings, and anything with infiltrate-like abilities is great at this), while screening/bubblewrapping is a different one. For the latter, what you want is mainly to absorb charges and keep people over 12" away from your important stuff in the back. For this, infantry squads are great because they can spread out very easily.

 

This means that ideally you'll want both screening and scouting stuff, but the units that are most suited for each role are different. Some of the units you mention can be a good support, e.g. I love to send my suicidal Hellhounds forward as fast as I can in order to put the advancing enemy under pressure and deal extra damage when they hopefully blow up. Fun fact: the now-improved Artemia hellhound explodes for a whopping d6 rather than d3 mortal wounds.

Where does it say it is d6 wounds? The rulebook is D3 and THE FAQ hasn't changed it. However it is dirt cheap, they reduced the points to 73 and didn't change the price of the main gun.

 

 

In its own entry in the FW index book...

[micahwc]

@ Feral_80,

 

Explain your use of the scout sentinels to me as I'm just not getting it. I've only used the armored versions and have been incredibly disappointed with them every time I bring them. They die if the opponent looks at you funny. I'm not doubting your experience, I just want to know what you are seeing that I have not seen. I like my sentinel models and want to field them, but when I make lists currently I just can't justify the cost for their weaknesses.

[Halfpint100]

 

 

 

(Scout) Sentinels definitely yes, simply because of their scout move. The rest depends, because they do not cover enough table space as well as infantry squads do.

 

Now keep in mind that area denial is a thing (Sentinels, Ratlings, and anything with infiltrate-like abilities is great at this), while screening/bubblewrapping is a different one. For the latter, what you want is mainly to absorb charges and keep people over 12" away from your important stuff in the back. For this, infantry squads are great because they can spread out very easily.

 

This means that ideally you'll want both screening and scouting stuff, but the units that are most suited for each role are different. Some of the units you mention can be a good support, e.g. I love to send my suicidal Hellhounds forward as fast as I can in order to put the advancing enemy under pressure and deal extra damage when they hopefully blow up. Fun fact: the now-improved Artemia hellhound explodes for a whopping d6 rather than d3 mortal wounds.

Where does it say it is d6 wounds? The rulebook is D3 and THE FAQ hasn't changed it. However it is dirt cheap, they reduced the points to 73 and didn't change the price of the main gun.

In its own entry in the FW index book...

Oh it is! I have been mis-using my artemia pattern he'll hound all this time! :0

[lash144]

@ Feral_80,

 

Explain your use of the scout sentinels to me as I'm just not getting it. I've only used the armored versions and have been incredibly disappointed with them every time I bring them. They die if the opponent looks at you funny. I'm not doubting your experience, I just want to know what you are seeing that I have not seen. I like my sentinel models and want to field them, but when I make lists currently I just can't justify the cost for their weaknesses.

You have to deploy them in front of your army and then move forward with their scout move in such a way that you create a massive no-deepstrike-zone in front of your main force.

So your opponent can't for example deepstrike Scions in rapid fire range.

 

Trust me this will be the best invested 150 points against deepstrike armies :D

[micahwc]

So what weapon do you run on them? I imagine they will die even faster out in front, so the 20 points for a lascannon seems like it may be a waste. Ideally, I'd put a heavy bolter on them, but that's not an option. Multi-laser?

[Withershadow]

Autocannons are cheap, lascannons also work.  It's only an 8-point difference, and even one shot can make the difference.

 

Regarding Artemia, I am unsure which gun I like better, 2D6 shots D1, or D6 shots D2.

[Tirak]

Lascannons on sentinals draw fire, which is very good. I highly recommend them. If they are blasting them they're not focusing on the more important things. If they're ignored, it's a 10 point lascannon blasting away.

 

This is an important instance where the "if they're shooting this they're not shooting something else" argument works. They already did their job and their point sink is minimal.

[lash144]

Lascannons on sentinals draw fire, which is very good. I highly recommend them. If they are blasting them they're not focusing on the more important things. If they're ignored, it's a 10 point lascannon blasting away.

 

This is an important instance where the "if they're shooting this they're not shooting something else" argument works. They already did their job and their point sink is minimal.

100% agreed! I always give then LC or ML. Remember every Lascanon shot in your sentinel is one less in your Russes or chimeras etc.

[Feral_80]

What they explained already. Yes (Scout) Sentinels just die, but that does not matter. Their job is done before the opponent gets any chance to destroy them, ie before turn 1. You deploy your Scouts Sentinels to the front limit of your deployment zone and then scout ahead with their ability as far as you can. There you go, no deep-striking stuff in quite a wide area. I use two, some people use three (and often fill a FA Brigade slot with them - but I don't run Brigades).

 

If for some reason your Sentinels survive past turn 1, it's a bonus. In any case they also force your opponent to deal with them, so they will absorb some fire and/or charges.

 

Since I use them as pure suicidal units, I tend to go as cheap as possible and field them with their super-crappy multilaser. I usually run them as Tallarn so they are marginally better than normal with that.

 

If for some reason you don't need to fill FA slots, FW Powerlifter can do exactly the same job for the same cost, and can be a nasty surprise for your opponent if they get in reach of a tough target.

[bigmic66]

I find 10man squads just get smashed too quickly. Or evaporate with morale.

 

T3 5+ just doesn't cut it

[librisrouge]

I find 10man squads just get smashed too quickly. Or evaporate with morale.

 

T3 5+ just doesn't cut it

Agreed but that's the perk of taking a ton of them. I've fielded 12+ infantry squads before and I don't mind if each and every one of them dies (why don't I play Valhallan?) They did their job by slowing the enemy down so that the heavy lifters of the army can do work. An infantry squad should be no more than 67 points, and that is the absolute high end. Most will be less than that even because you'll leave the heavy weapon at home to fit in another squad. Take some russ to do the heavy lifting.

[bigmic66]

Yeah I find I concede any kp mission obj like that

[lash144]

 

I find 10man squads just get smashed too quickly. Or evaporate with morale.

 

T3 5+ just doesn't cut it

Agreed but that's the perk of taking a ton of them. I've fielded 12+ infantry squads before and I don't mind if each and every one of them dies (why don't I play Valhallan?) They did their job by slowing the enemy down so that the heavy lifters of the army can do work. An infantry squad should be no more than 67 points, and that is the absolute high end. Most will be less than that even because you'll leave the heavy weapon at home to fit in another squad. Take some russ to do the heavy lifting.

 

 

My thought process is as follows:

If I have no unmechanised Infantry Squads then all of my opponents anti infantry fire power is pretty much wasted. (have fun killing shooting at russes/chimeras with HB´s or things like that)

So that´s why I´m reluctant to take Infantry.

I think I will really try out some dragoons.

[bigmic66]

^this.

 

I'll only take inf if I'm taking all inf.

[lash144]

Edit: pls delete Edited December 9, 2017 by lash144

[Malakithe]

I just looked on battlescribe then CA pics and saw the Artemia is a lot cheaper then a normal hellhound. Now im considering adding them as a screen/suicide vehicle lol