Toomanyprojects Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) Hi Guys,Just want the opinion of you fine folks on here. I grabbed my codex today and had a look at the stratagems.The one that grabs me is Death Visions of Sanguinius. The wording only outlaws me giving the Black rage to Named & Primaris characters but allows for all others.Sooo, I can give my terminator captain the Black rage then? Does everyone concur with this? I’m only asking because it’s a step that GW has never taken before. Edited December 9, 2017 by Toomanyprojects Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Anything with the CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN or LIEUTENANT key words that isn't PRIMARIS. So Terminator captains are perfectly allowed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Yep it works, take the extra Karlean and paint him black! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Is TDA an upgrade for the captain or is the TDA captain on a separate datasheet with its own name? If it is the latter I'm afraid it won't work, because the stratagem explicitly calls out three models BA Captain, Chaplain or Lieutenant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Is TDA an upgrade for the captain or is the TDA captain on a separate datasheet with its own name? If it is the latter I'm afraid it won't work, because the stratagem explicitly calls out three models BA Captain, Chaplain or Lieutenant. Pretty sure it stated Terminator Captain. To be honest would you want someone going through the black rage to be in terminator armor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Makes that DC terminator chaplain riding with assault terminators or DC a thing though. Interesting, I didn't even consider that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It doesn't matter if they are wearing Terminator armour, they still have the CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN key words (which are all seperate) so are eligible for the stratagem. Its not calling out models, if it was it would be in lowercase text with an upper case at the beginning (for a name). Aothaine and Demoulius 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It doesn't matter if they are wearing Terminator armour, they still have the CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN key words (which are all seperate) so are eligible for the stratagem. Its not calling out models, if it was it would be in lowercase text with an upper case at the beginning (for a name). Thats how I read it as well. It clearly mentions keywords. It says nothing about unit entries or models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It doesn't matter if they are wearing Terminator armour, they still have the CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN key words (which are all seperate) so are eligible for the stratagem. Its not calling out models, if it was it would be in lowercase text with an upper case at the beginning (for a name). You are right of course, however there is a different problem if you go by keywords There is no BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN keyword. The way that stratagem is written the model has to have one of the three keywords BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN or LIEUTENANT. As written no model with the CAPTAIN keyword can benefit from it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It doesn't matter if they are wearing Terminator armour, they still have the CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN key words (which are all seperate) so are eligible for the stratagem. Its not calling out models, if it was it would be in lowercase text with an upper case at the beginning (for a name). You are right of course, however there is a different problem if you go by keywords There is no BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN keyword. The way that stratagem is written the model has to have one of the three keywords BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN or LIEUTENANT. As written no model with the CAPTAIN keyword can benefit from it. It's not referring to a single keyword, it's referring to needing all of those to benefit. Aothaine 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It doesn't matter if they are wearing Terminator armour, they still have the CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN key words (which are all seperate) so are eligible for the stratagem. Its not calling out models, if it was it would be in lowercase text with an upper case at the beginning (for a name). You are right of course, however there is a different problem if you go by keywords There is no BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN keyword. The way that stratagem is written the model has to have one of the three keywords BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN or LIEUTENANT. As written no model with the CAPTAIN keyword can benefit from it. It's not referring to a single keyword, it's referring to needing all of those to benefit. I agree. It requires "Blood Angels" & "Captain/Chaplain/Lieutenant". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4955928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 You are right of course, however there is a different problem if you go by keywords There is no BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN keyword. The way that stratagem is written the model has to have one of the three keywords BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN, CHAPLAIN or LIEUTENANT. As written no model with the CAPTAIN keyword can benefit from it. Please don't do this. We all know what it means. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4956005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordofmandulis Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Unfortunately it means so Death Visions for the Chaplain Dreadnought as it's key word is CHAPLAIN VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT, not CHAPLAIN. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4956010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
utilityzero Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Clearly it means the keywords not the unit titles. If it didn't they would never have had to bother with mentioning the no primaris part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4956100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Quixus isn't arguing that it's not key words, unless I'm mistaken he's arguing that the way it's written (RAW), "BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN" is the key word it can effect, however no units actually have that key word, captains having both "BLOOD ANGELS" and "CAPTAIN" but no "BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN". Which is not how keywords work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4956173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Quixus isn't arguing that it's not key words, unless I'm mistaken he's arguing that the way it's written (RAW), "BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN" is the key word it can effect, however no units actually have that key word, captains having both "BLOOD ANGELS" and "CAPTAIN" but no "BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN".That is exactly what I am saying. Which is not how keywords work.If that isn't how it works, why does the Land Speeder Storm have the "LAND SPEEDER" and the "LAND SPEEDER STORM" keywords if you can freely choose which components of a keyword can be relevant? I'm not saying that the Captain should not be affected, but that GW again failed to write what they intended and thus we need another houserule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4956184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Quixus isn't arguing that it's not key words, unless I'm mistaken he's arguing that the way it's written (RAW), "BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN" is the key word it can effect, however no units actually have that key word, captains having both "BLOOD ANGELS" and "CAPTAIN" but no "BLOOD ANGELS CAPTAIN".That is exactly what I am saying. Which is not how keywords work.If that isn't how it works, why does the Land Speeder Storm have the "LAND SPEEDER" and the "LAND SPEEDER STORM" keywords if you can freely choose which components of a keyword can be relevant? I'm not saying that the Captain should not be affected, but that GW again failed to write what they intended and thus we need another houserule. Because that way anything that affects landspeeders can also affect the storm, or else you'd be stuck with "LAND SPEEDER" and "STORM", which is dumb. I don't think you need a house rule at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4956190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Because you're confusing how GW uses a combination of faction keywords and regular keywords and how they use regular keywords. Look at our shard relic how they combined daemon and monster. There they talk about a combination of two regular keywords. Faction keywords however have always been simply put infront of the regular keyword. Edited December 10, 2017 by sfPanzer Xenith 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342149-terminator-death-company/#findComment-4956192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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