Company Veterans on Bikes Loadout.

[Rommel44]

Hey mates. While researching for my army, one of the most common units I have seen for obvious reasons have been the Company Vets on Bikes. With that being said, do people prefer to equip them with shooting weaponry such as Meltaguns or would be equipping them to be a CC unit be better? Currently I am leaning towards the latter with the following loadout:

 

* Bike Company Vets:

- Sgt. w/Thunder Hammer (or a PF), Plasma Pistol

- 4x Vets w/Power Lance, Storm Shield

 

Your thoughts? And all opinions are welcome on this topic mates.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Rommel44

[Armament81]

Personally I have been using them as my 1 CC unit, typically 4 dudes with TH/SS and the Sgt with a Power Fist and Pistol of some variety.  (this is so I have a place I can tweek points).  I tend to then run them with a chappy and Apothacary on bike for support.  But a lot of times they are the target of my Born in the Saddle usage to crush something turn 1, with the chappy just advancing into bubble range to support them.  Definitely has gotten some work done and surprised a few people.  But in my local meta only one other player is using bike units, and he is a deathwatch player.

 

For shooting load outs I like to take 4 man normal bike units, and do a Combi on the sgt, and 2 specials of the same kind, 1 additional guy for protective wounds, and then maybe a AB with either weapon if points allow.  Typically I pair a heavy bolter if the unit is sporting plasma, and a multi melta if the others all have metlas.

[Claws and Effect]

5x storm bolter/thunder hammer.

 

40 bolted shots inside 12", followed by a bunch of 3 damage hits in melee.

 

There are some over/under storm bolters on Shapewaus that could be dual mounted on the bike, leaving the off hand free to actually steer the bike.

[dchmp]

Looking through the dex and i'm not seeing the Company Veterans option or points for bikes, where do you find this.  And I would always use the reg bike squads as the ranged attack unit as you already have 3 special weapons, plus one on an attack bike in one squad. 

[Armament81]

The Company Vets on Bikes didn't make the codex and can only be found in the Index, along with all our Characters on Bikes, sans the Captain.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Armament81

[breng77]

I think they look a bit too pricey.  They are ~10 points more than regular bikers with no wargear.  Maybe a squad with just storm bolters could be ok to double up on their shooting, anything else just seems like too much on a 2 wound model with average durability.  Maybe Storm bolter and storm shield.  I mean I see people recommending hunderhammers that is 52 points per model, bikes just don't live long enough to justify that cost nor do they have enough attacks.

 

5 with Storm bolters and Storm shields would run you 43 points each and give you 3++ bikers with 8 bolter shots each. 

[Armament81]

Not a horrible option breng77 if you are bringing them in an UM or IF army so that they can take advantage of those company bonuses.  But remember one of the things you gain for those 10 extra points is an additional attack on the profile, to which bolter load outs kind of ignore.  But like the other Vet units (Sternguard and Vanguard) they are tool box units that can be fit to play with a lot of styles.  A durable CC unit is just something that the White Scars Unique bonuses support well.

[breng77]

The issue is that bikes still get 2 attacks when they have a chainsword. So either you are paying even more for special close combat weapons which is super pricey and not super durable. You mentioned a TH/SS squad now you are paying 56 points per bike for a unit that hits 5 times on average in close combat, and is slightly more durable than 10 marines against non-AP attacks. I just think that nearly 300 points is a bit too much.

[Armament81]

Yea, and I don't think their is a codex SM unit that is going to be deadly in melee and not be costly.  Try proxying the unit some time and see how it plays, you may not be disappointed, I know I have not been.  Remember to not look at one unit in a vacuum too, as the other threats you put on the table may out weigh this bike unit, thus giving it a chance to get up the board (which with WS only takes one turn).   Also, a Vet on a bike with chainsword is 3 (2 + 1) swings.

[breng77]

I doubt if will find it's way into my list right now, I just don't have the points to get in in there without sacrificing too much else.  My current build is White Scars + Dark Angels making use of both factions Advance + shoot + charge stratagems, and I don't see where I would find 280 points for 5 bikers, I would likely have to drop my preferred WS squad the 9 man scout bikes squad, which are just super efficient, super fast, and great at clearing chaff.  I generally leave Close combat to my characters, or for finishing off weakened units.  It is true that I would have other threats that would likely take some priority over this unit though (plasma inceptors mainly), but I feel like these guys would need to be a second wave unit because they are not particularly good at killing chaff units, they really want to charge into tanks, elite infantry and characters. 

 

Most of my games are at 1500 right now, maybe at 2K I'll try them out at some point for a turn 2 follow up unit.

[dchmp]

I think I like the idea of the vets on bikes, but the reg bike squad is better for the points.  That is unless you are just going to use the vet squads as an alpha strike unit, or an expensive shield for the rest of the army.  Either of these options seem to require at least a 1500 point game, and two of the vet units.  Playing around with a list I came to two captains with SS and PF, two vets squads on bikes with SS and PF.  The rest of the army was MSU scouts, tactical marines and hellblasters with assault plasmas.  Looked fun but i doubt it could last more than 3 full turns if it had to go longer into a battle.   Everything really hinges on that first turn assault IMO. 

[breng77]

The issue is that you really won't get more than 1 squad into the assault most times as you only get 1 Born in the Saddle use, and 14" movement (when the dead zone in most deployments is 24") makes for at best a long charge (10") so you need the advance move to really get there.  I think if you are going for a bike alpha strike, you need to ally in Dark Angels.  Then use one squad of vets on bike and a squad of black knights.  Then back them up with say a captain on bike, and Sammeal on Sableclaw. That way you can use both chapters stratagems to advance + shoot + charge.  I have been doing similar with a Scout bike squad and RW bikers and it has worked well.

[dchmp]

Well said, and that is why I think the reg squad is better at its function for the points.  

[Freman Bloodglaive]

For me there's only two bike choices in the army list. Company Veterans, and Attack Bikes.

 

Company Veterans can take a free chainsword for 3 attacks each, and every model can take a special or combi-weapon. The extra leadership isn't that important, but it's there anyway.

 

If you give your squad members combi-plasma they can fire their bike storm bolter, either the bolter or plasma gun, or both the bolter and plasma gun (don't overcharge) giving a considerable amount of firepower per model. Then they can still punch stuff in melee if you really want to.

[breng77]

Why those choices?  I view regular bikes and scout bikes being better than either of those choices.

 

I can get 6 (2x3) double plasma + combi-plasma bikers for less than the cost the cost of 5 Vet bikes.  In that comparison The vet bikes have 2 less wounds and 3 more attacks for 11 more points.  They also have 4  extra bolter shots, but 2 less plasma shots.

 

But if you want dakka, for even less points you can get 9 scout bikes with a storm bolter sarge which put out 58 S 4 shots at 12" range and have 19 S4 cc attacks.  With faster movement.  You could also put a combi-on the sarge if you want.

[geektom]

excuse the newbie questions, please. I have a fairly large army, but don't get much playing experience and am just starting to learn 8th:

 

No more impact hits, correct?

 

So when we charge on bikes, it just resolves as a melee combat, except we can fall back afterwards and charge again the next turn? Am I understanding the strategy advantage the right way?

 

Also, for fluff reasons, I used to give my regular bike Sgt's a power lance, but looks like that is not an option in 8th. I can give them to Veterans, because that is in the Index? I don't own the Index- is it worth buying?

 

Thanks!

[Armament81]

 

No more impact hits, correct?

 

So when we charge on bikes, it just resolves as a melee combat, except we can fall back afterwards and charge again the next turn? Am I understanding the strategy advantage the right way?

 

Correct, no more impact hits.  And as a general, all White Scar Infantry, Bikes and Dreadnaughts can fallback and still charge in the charge phase.  Also, the White Scar specific stratagem lets you advance with a unit and then still fire and charge like normally, but you can only use that on one unit a turn.  For 1 CP it is solid.

[Indefragable]

Hopping into this a bit late. My brother was up from TX a week or so back and I dusted off the remnants of my Scarblade for some fun.

 

In general, I think Company Vets on bikes need stormshields. They're just too much of a priority target. And  adding 3++ to a T5 2W body goes a long, long way. Yes, it decreases their damage output, but I think Scars need to balance their mobility with resiliency rather than damage output. The whole needs to be greater than the sum of its parts. 

 

Compare to Ravenwing: DA play like a bit of a traditional medeival army (how fitting) where the Greenwing acts as The Line marching up and holding the center while the RW act as cavalry swooping around the flanks doing damage.

 

White Scars, in contrast, need to play more like a cavalry-dominant force (again, how convenient).  I think The Line needs to be a mobile unit of biker squads with as many special weapons buried in there as possible. Company Vets w/ SS are there to tie units up, then break away, exposing the enemy to the guns of the "line" bike units before charging other units and rinse+repeat.

 

Troops units of your choice should* be as cheap and non-threatening as possible to hold back OBJ.

 

That's my revised #theory anyways, after resurrecting my dudes.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Indefragable