DA in 8th - Stratagems, Traits and List Building

[march10k]

That is really interesting, I hadn't thought of using sisters that way, but against most bubble wrap, deepstriking storm bolters at 9" range are just as effective.  I feel like DA has a real asset in DWA.  Not a lot of codexes have an organic means for clearing a spot for assault terminators to drop within charge range of a bubble wrapped target.  The GK player was using sisters because he doesn't have anything in his own codex.  In fact, I'd say that DWA is better than (I am a sisters player) the sisters act of faith because the shooters involved are safely off the table if the other player goes first.

[Grand Master Raziel]

So, I had the thought there could be some play with a combo of DWA and Tactical Flexibility.  Drop in a squad of 10 Termies.  DWA when they arrive.  Then use TacFlex to break them up into two 5-man squads.  That makes it a little harder to wipe them with massed shooting.  Plus, gives you two chances to succeed the charge roll instead of just 1.

[hermanista]

All well and good in narrative games, but otherwise unavailable in matched play as it means using two starts in one phase.

[mika_angelus]

You can use as many stratagem's as you want in a single phase, you just can't use the same one twice.

[hermanista]

Well bloody hell, you're right!

 

Seems I've been hamstringing myself since 8th ed started, lol.

 

In which case, brilliant!

[breng77]

Just a note that I had not seen brought up,  When you talked about intractable, you mentioned falling back and jinking.  You are not allowed to advance when you fall back so you can never use jink when you fall back. 

[Polythemus]

don't have the codex yet so everything is from the rumor pile but if your using sammael in a army with Death wing support you can use speed of the raven to get really close to enemy  with move plus advance shoot with him and supporting units, drop termies in coherency at nine inches from enemies and within 6" from SAm and then still benefit from charge rerolls. Makes for a hell of a alpha strike.

[Wrath of Bruinen]

don't have the codex yet so everything is from the rumor pile but if your using sammael in a army with Death wing support you can use speed of the raven to get really close to enemy with move plus advance shoot with him and supporting units, drop termies in coherency at nine inches from enemies and within 6" from SAm and then still benefit from charge rerolls. Makes for a hell of a alpha strike.

Sammy will also give the deathwing reroll 1s, which isn't game changing but is still nice

[FerociousBeast]

DWA clearing chaff so another unit can teleport in and charge something yummy sounds good, but it still relies on a fairly improbable charge roll of >= 9. Is there anything in the dex that makes that easier beyond just rerolls? Edited December 16, 2017 by FerociousBeast

[hermanista]

Hunt the Fallen strategem if you were targeting a character you has picked would give charge rerolls to deathwing/ravenwing.

 

Hard to pull off a lot of the time though

[Kilofix]

Is there a point to the Inner Circle Strat? Something actually worth using?

[Normal Norman]

Is there a point to the Inner Circle Strat? Something actually worth using?

You can benefit from the auras of Belial and a Deathwing Ancient. It is the most ridiculously marginal of benefits. Really really not worth a CP. It should be an upgrade for specific units.

 

It actually takes away a stratagem slot that could be used for other things.

[dtse]

Hunt the Fallen strategem if you were targeting a character you has picked would give charge rerolls to deathwing/ravenwing.

 

Hard to pull off a lot of the time though

Keep in mind other than facing that characters overwatch this stratagem then allows reroll charges. Against anyone. And discourages heroic intervention. I think it’s worth 1 cp and just try and get that character within 12” so you can declare it as a target

[JJD]

DWA clearing chaff so another unit can teleport in and charge something yummy sounds good, but it still relies on a fairly improbable charge roll of >= 9. Is there anything in the dex that makes that easier beyond just rerolls?

I’m still waiting on delivery but I’m sure I’ve heard about a warlord trait that increases advance and charge distances.

 

There is alway a CP re roll too but then you blowing 4CP on this tactic.

[Helycon]

 

DWA clearing chaff so another unit can teleport in and charge something yummy sounds good, but it still relies on a fairly improbable charge roll of >= 9. Is there anything in the dex that makes that easier beyond just rerolls?

I’m still waiting on delivery but I’m sure I’ve heard about a warlord trait that increases advance and charge distances.

 

There is alway a CP re roll too but then you blowing 4CP on this tactic.

I will receive my copy next week, but I think it's a reroll of both with the warlord trait.

[dtse]

Sammy warlord trait allows you to reroll advance and charge. Otherwise there’s nothing sweet like blood angels 3D6 charge stratagem

[rendingon1+]

I have a stupid (or not) question - are the profiles for biker librarian/chaplain/interrogator in the book?

[Syphid]

I have a stupid (or not) question - are the profiles for biker librarian/chaplain/interrogator in the book?

Nope, but they are in the Index.

[Stormxlr]

Played 2 games with the new codex, Ravenwing and Greenwing are the real winners of this codex. Deathwing are ignored and misunderstood as usual.

 

Deathwing Assault is a lackluster stratagem that costs way too much for something that should be a Deathwing Chapter Tactic equivalent of.  First game was Blitz 2v2 2000 points per person, with my RW/DW army and Eldar vs Cadian renegades and Death Guard.  I deep striked Belial to assure rerolls and then dropped 10 strong unit of Tartaros with 6xbolters and reaper autocan and one assault can ( homeruled) and 2xth/ss. So all together thats about 600 points, i faced a poxwalker screening unit of 15 models in cover next to Typhus. I spent 3CP for DWA and unloaded everything into poxwalkers killing roughly half of them... which is :cussing disappointing for 3 CP. Then turn 1 shooting phase started and i shot them again with the same Tartaros unit and killing the last half of the Poxwalker group.  So it took roughly half my army ~600 points and 3 CP to remove a unit of basic zombies in cover in 2 rounds of shooting.... this is sad very sad.

 

Next example. After the Eldar wiped out the renegades and i damaged the Death Guard the opposition conceded and packed up while Eldar player and I prepared to face off.

 

I seized the initiative and went first. I did the same trick, deep strike Belial with TDWT. Eldar player played Forewarned stratagem which has a funny interaction with Deathwing Assault stratagem. Forewarned allows an Eldar unit to shoot immediately when enemy unit arrives from reinforcement. Deathwing Assault allows a deep striking unit to shoot immediately upon arrival. Which one happens first? Both happen immediately! I let the Eldar player go first since it logically works that way. Afterall they were Forewarned right? Filthy Xenos. So i dropped inront of a 20 man unit of Guardians which costs 160 points if remember correctly, he does his out of turn shooting phase killing 3 terminators and then i do mine killing roughly half of his unit, then my shooting phase starts and i finish off the unit. Then his shooting phase starts in turn 1 and he wipes out Belial with the Terminators in a single turn and kills the Darkshroud. Turn 2 starts i drop my knights and champion and ancient, i drop them infornt of wave serpent, but i did not know it has the rule to add 2" to charge range so i never made it and lost a knight to overwatch :/. I conceded at the end of turn 3, in 2v2 game our chaos opposition also conceded at the end of turn 3.

 

So from this two games i learned that DWA stratagem is overcosted peice of crap just like Terminators are in general. And Eldar are as strong as ever.

[Normal Norman]

Played 2 games with the new codex, Ravenwing and Greenwing are the real winners of this codex. Deathwing are ignored and misunderstood as usual.

 

Deathwing Assault is a lackluster stratagem that costs way too much for something that should be a Deathwing Chapter Tactic equivalent of. First game was Blitz 2v2 2000 points per person, with my RW/DW army and Eldar vs Cadian renegades and Death Guard. I deep striked Belial to assure rerolls and then dropped 10 strong unit of Tartaros with 6xbolters and reaper autocan and one assault can ( homeruled) and 2xth/ss. So all together thats about 600 points, i faced a poxwalker screening unit of 15 models in cover next to Typhus. I spent 3CP for DWA and unloaded everything into poxwalkers killing roughly half of them... which is :cussing disappointing for 3 CP. Then turn 1 shooting phase started and i shot them again with the same Tartaros unit and killing the last half of the Poxwalker group. So it took roughly half my army ~600 points and 3 CP to remove a unit of basic zombies in cover in 2 rounds of shooting.... this is sad very sad.

 

Next example. After the Eldar wiped out the renegades and i damaged the Death Guard the opposition conceded and packed up while Eldar player and I prepared to face off.

 

I seized the initiative and went first. I did the same trick, deep strike Belial with TDWT. Eldar player played Forewarned stratagem which has a funny interaction with Deathwing Assault stratagem. Forewarned allows an Eldar unit to shoot immediately when enemy unit arrives from reinforcement. Deathwing Assault allows a deep striking unit to shoot immediately upon arrival. Which one happens first? Both happen immediately! I let the Eldar player go first since it logically works that way. Afterall they were Forewarned right? Filthy Xenos. So i dropped inront of a 20 man unit of Guardians which costs 160 points if remember correctly, he does his out of turn shooting phase killing 3 terminators and then i do mine killing roughly half of his unit, then my shooting phase starts and i finish off the unit. Then his shooting phase starts in turn 1 and he wipes out Belial with the Terminators in a single turn and kills the Darkshroud. Turn 2 starts i drop my knights and champion and ancient, i drop them infornt of wave serpent, but i did not know it has the rule to add 2" to charge range so i never made it and lost a knight to overwatch :/. I conceded at the end of turn 3, in 2v2 game our chaos opposition also conceded at the end of turn 3.

 

So from this two games i learned that DWA stratagem is overcosted peice of crap just like Terminators are in general. And Eldar are as strong as ever.

I am pretty sure that as it is your turn you dictate the order of events. I can’t seem to find a ruling on this in the designers commentary but they talked about this very interaction in the latest FLG podcast.

[Bryan Blaire]

It's in the heading "Sequencing" on page 178 of the rule book.

[Madmonkeyman]

If it's your turn you decide the sequence of events - if it happens again maybe don't let them shoot you first :-)

[dtse]

Yup. That double shooting max terminator squad strategy is really too expensive points and CP wise.

[Indefragable]

So, I had the thought there could be some play with a combo of DWA and Tactical Flexibility. Drop in a squad of 10 Termies. DWA when they arrive. Then use TacFlex to break them up into two 5-man squads. That makes it a little harder to wipe them with massed shooting. Plus, gives you two chances to succeed the charge roll instead of just 1.

Delayed reaction on my part, but this is brilliant.

 

10man unit of DW, 2x Heavy weapons, and 3x TH/SS.

 

Drop in, use the -1 To Wound Strat + DWA + Tactical Flexibilty if you want. Of T2 use Tact Flex...either way you can have 2x Heavy weapon DW (ignoring Morale) sitting on an Obj (re-rolling 1’s To Hit if they don’t move) while a 2+/3++ unit goes to beat faces.

 

Sure, “regular” DW w/ TH/SS aren’t as flashy as DW Knights, but this is the kind of shenanigans* you can pull with these strategems.

 

 

*the cheeky fun kind, not the cruel and tragic sort

[breng77]

Yup, it is pretty effective on the drop (though it hurts to be -1 with heavy weapons for both times you shoot, as this makes the idea of combat squading your heavy weapons to get them to shoot twice meh at best).  But you are likely investing in a re-roll character or 2, which puts the price points wise sky high. (looking at 600ish points for a full squad of termies) then spending 3 CP (which you won't have a ton of because you just spent 600+ points on this trick).    This makes your optimal target chaff, which you kill really well, but again it is 600+ points you should murder some chaff.  Then you have a bunch of slow terminators on foot.  I think it would work if it was 1/2 CP (min-max size squads) , and if RW still had teleport homers for assistance moving later in the battle/let you drop closer to targets.