Unconventional List Experiment !

[GreyCrow]

Hi guys !

 

This is going to sound like an odd request, but I'm looking for people to see how far we can stretch the meta with unconventional list experiments !

 

Let's develop fluffy ways to beat the meta and get some crazy results ! If all else fail, at least we can have a good laugh with these oddball lists!

The entire logic is to surprise the opponent, and therefore take him with his pants down, while keeping a solid structure!

 

Here is how we can proceed :

- You tell me which units you love and have

- I'll crunch a list prototype as well as basic gameplay guidelines

- We review together and adapt if needed

- You play, take some pictures and share the lols !

 

Come forth, and let's have fun ! :D

[Frater Cornelius]

Heh, these days a balanced list can pass as unconvetional, given how people usually just focus on an overpowered gimmick, like Alpha Legion Khorne Berserkers going full ninja. However, some people may regard tactically stupid lists as unconventional as well. Playing only Grots, for example, isn't unconventional. It is stupid.

 

The way I like to approach new lists is to think of a visually impressive concept and try to push it to its limits. While not the peak efficiency, this does alright. In the process we may discover what this thread is meant to discover though, a hidden gem that can hold its own against spam and gimmick lists.

 

Alternatively, we can also look at gimmicks. Although most combinations in the C:SM book have already been discovered and tested. Marines aren't exactly known for combos and the book does not offer as much. This actually goes for most books.

 

So yes, if this is in line with what you imagined, I might as well throw in a few fun things I wanted to try just for the visual. I am only sure that grandcrusade08 would want to chime in with his really cool Scout-themed ideas

Edited December 11, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[Galron]

I think it classes as different than the norm. I play Minotaurs and since fluffwise they are the High Lord's attack dogs against other marines I field them as such with the goal of quickly getting in the opponent's face for a short range firefight. I actually field 6 troop choices and two drop pods, along with a terminator assault squad, two inceptor squads, two vet squads, and a Caestus Assault ram, because nothing says in your face like an assault ram despite its ability nerf and overpriced points cost even before CA hiked it up even further.

[Wargamer]

Demi Company - your list MUST contain 30 Tactical Marines, 10 Assault Marines and 10 Devastators... or equivalent (ie: 5 Land Speeders instead of 10 Assault Marines is a valid replacement).

 

If possible, the entire list should be drawn from a single Battle Company.

[Tamiel]

Demi Company - your list MUST contain 30 Tactical Marines, 10 Assault Marines and 10 Devastators... or equivalent (ie: 5 Land Speeders instead of 10 Assault Marines is a valid replacement).

 

If possible, the entire list should be drawn from a single Battle Company.

When I'm done with university, I'll be testing a smaller demi-company. Basically, you need 15 tac marines, 5 asm, 5 dev, and a captain. It will be meant for 1k play, but you can easily make it in 2k as well with just more marines (which would bring you to a demi company like you listed).

 

Here are the restrictions:

1xCaptain (Bonus points if he isn't riding a bike or jump pack. Jump pack and bike captains don't feel as iconic as a normal captain)

3xTac Squads

1xAssault Squad (jump packs)

1xDev Squad

+Any necessary transports

 

At 1k games, your squads are allowed to be 5man. At 2k games, your squads are encouraged to be 10man.

 

From here, you can add additional TAC, ASM, or DEV squads so long as you loosely keep the 3:1:1 ratio of TAC:ASM:DEV. You can have, say, two dev squads to get 3:1:2, but going 3 dev squads is off limits. 

 

You can add Vehicles, Scouts, and Elite units so long as the main backbone of your army is at least a demi company, or a full company. Meaning, at least 2/3rds of your army, at a glance, should look like a TAC, ASM, DEV army along with whatever transports they have. The other 1/3rd of your army is comprised of your specialists (Predators, Scouts, Elites, ect). 

 

The 2/3rds rule is just a baseline and isn't meant to be exact. 

 

The goal of this army is to stay true to the most basic, well rounded, fluffy, codex-approved type of army possible: The Demi Company. This army type is not designed to be competitively strong, and using narrative missions with friendly oppoents is pretty much the main thing this army is meant for.

 

When I'm done with my exams, I may start a thread detailing my games with this army. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Tamiel

[Frater Cornelius]

Good idea! According to Codex 2.0, 2nd to 5th Company are Battle Companies, so this is what we would be playing. 6th to 9th are reserve Companies, which are used to reinforce the Battle Companies. 10th remains the Scout Company.

 

I wonder if I can do that with Primaris? It is three Intercessors as Battleline. Hellblasters or Aggressors as Fire Support Squad. Reiver or Inceptors as Close Support Squad. The Redemptor as the Dreadnought. You might even look at a second Dread, as the number varies. UM 4th Co has four Dreads, whereas 5th only has one. That fills a demi. Guilliman adjusted the Codex for Demi Company to be led by a Lieutenant.

Now move to Chapter Command, which is a Captain and an Ancient. Add tanks from the Armoury and you’re golden. Finally, 10th Company Auxiliary. I will just assume that Primaris are also made of Scouts.

 

Primaris Lieutenant

Redemptor Dreadnought

3x5 Intercessors

5 Hellblasters

3 Inceptors

 

That is 839pts, given the cheapest loadout. Add a Primaris Ancient, which leaves you with 908. Now you can add a shooty Primaris Captain for 91pts or a Scout Squad, even two Scout Squads if you exchange the Inceptors for Reivers. If you are like me and build your Tacs from Primaris to have a uniform look, then you can mix and match to save points and optimize. If you are playing 1250, then a 283pts Repulsor can come along for the ride.

 

The second Demi would be

Primaris Lieutenant

Redemptor

3x5 Intercessors

3 Aggressors

5 Reivers

 

I use 5man squads, otherwise things would get bloated. Guilliman allowed a demi to consist of double the amount of 5man squads, so the Chapter holds part of the forces in reserve during the battle, as a contigency plan. They are thinking along, like Guilliman wants them to.

 

Honestly? I am in love with this idea. It is so fluffy :O *faints like a lady in direct sunlight*

 

However, is it viable? Well, it certainly isn’t bad, regardless if you play Primaris, Classics or mixed. You definitely have staying power. What you lack is anti-tank, hence why it is probably best to mix at lower point levels, attempt to add a Repulsor or take a shooty AT Dread instead of the Redemptor.

 

At 2k you can go nuts though. Give me some time to write up a primarily Primaris Demi at 2k. It will be glorious :O

[Shuul]

My take on unconvential list:

Captain (M.C. bolter + power lance)

Captain (stormbolter + power axe) + jump pack (to help inceptors)

Librarian

Lieutenant

Techmarine (servo-arm)

 

3x 5man scouts with shotguns

 

3x 5man sternguards with s.i. bolters

company ancient

3x razorbacks with HB (for sterns)

 

3x bolter Inceptors

 

2x Ven. dreadnoughts (AC +LC)

Predator (AC +2LCs)

 

Nice screen, sterns and foot-slogging characters protected in razorbacks, nice deepstrike anti-horde alpha, nice firepower from dreadnoughts.

Also, list is not forced to focus on one flank and has great mobility.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Shuul

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, here it is.

 

1000pts Demi Company

Hidden Content

CT - UM

 

Primaris Captain - MC auto bolt rifle

Primaris Lieutenant - MC auto bolt rifle

 

3x 5 Intercessors - Aux. GL, bolt rifles

5 Scouts - HB

 

Redemptor Dreadnought - Heavy Plasma, 2 SB, OG

 

3 Inceptors - bolters

 

5 Hellblasters - RF Plasmas

 

Why is it fluffly?

Hidden Content

Demi Company

Company Command: Captain and Lieutenant

3 Battlelines: 3x Intercessors (the remaining 15 are not participating in active combat but instead act as tactical reserves)

1 Close Support: Inceptors

1 Fire Support: Hellblasters

Dreadnoughts: Redemptor

10th Company Auxiliaries: Scout Squad

 

It is a bit tougher at 2k. I tried to throw something together that makes some sense, although it is untested and probably not optimized.

Hidden Content

CT - UM

 

Gravis Captain

Primaris Lieutenant

 

10 Intercessors - 2 Aux. GL, bolt rifles, PS on sergeant

2x5 Intercessors - 1 Aux. GL, auto bolt rifles, PS on sergeant

10 Scouts - HB, SB  sergeant

 

3 Aggressors - bolters

5 Reivers - pistols/knives, grav shutes

Redemptor - HOG, OG, 2 SB

Primaris Ancient - relic banner

 

2 Predators - QuadLas

TFC with TM gunner

 

Repulsor - Twin LC, Las Talon, 3 SB, 1 IH stubber, 2 Kraks

 

Why is it fluffy?

Hidden Content

Demi Company

Company Command: Captain, Lieutenant, Ancient

3 Battleline: 3 Intercessors (10 men in reserve)

1 Close Support: Reivers

1 Fire Support: Aggressors

Dreadnoughts: Redemptor

10th Company Auxiliaries: Scout Squad

Armoury: Tech Marine gunner, TFC, 2 Predators, Repulsor

 

I suppose that both lists can hold their own quite well. One might consider taking a more minimalistic approach in the 2k list, opting for more reserves within the demi company and instead taking more auxiliaries from the 6th to 10th company (more scouts, more heavy dakka like Hellblasters or Dreads from the 9th Company.

 

My biggest worry is the high amount of drops, though I suppose one can make adjustments to optimize the list like taking two units as one and then combat squadding them. Make one guy a bit more special and call him a sub-sergeant or something. There is leeway, now that Guilliman is back and kicking

 

Actually, this is really fun to build and optimize lists according a working and fluffy concept as the demi company instead of finding exploits. I dare anyone call me a power gamer when I come up with this stuff

 

Edit: Hm. In terms of fluff it is actually the most conventional way of building a SM army :D Though in terms of what the current norm is, it is pretty unusual.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[Nakuth]

Sounds like fun. Can't guarantee I'll get many/any games in soon, but at a bit of an impasse in my own list building, so keen to see some other thoughts.

 

Units I like:

Hellblasters

Plasma Inceptors

Reivers

Non-Primaris Chaplain

Redemptor

 

Units I don't like:

Scouts

Aggressors

Tac/Dev squads

 

I realise I will need some heavier firepower. I have an unbuilt predator for some of that. If it helps, I have also toyed with the idea of 20 Reivers (2x5-man squads, 1 full strength), 6 plasma Inceptors, a jump pack chaplain, Stormtalon, Stormhawk, and the new FW Primaris super-heavy at 2k points. That seemed a little ridiculous, though.

[Claws and Effect]

Raven Guard Bladewing Assault Brotherhood.

 

Restrictions:

 

- All Infantry models must be equipped with a jump pack. No exceptions.

 

- Must be Battle Forged.

 

- Gunships are acceptable for fire support.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Claws and Effect

[CCE1981]

I never liked th idea of 5 man tactical squads until the last game I played. I was “forced” to do it because I forgot the number of deepstrikers I had. I ended up running them as sets, one tactical with a special weapon, and the other with a heavy weapon, and basically running them in a mutual support team and sharing a rhino. Would this be considered kosher?

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, that is essentially what Combat Squads are. The changes you made were just list-building related, not fluff related. In essence, this is the same. Besides, Guilliman adjusted the Codex. A company can have x squads of something or 2x half-strength squads. For example the 9th reserve company can have 10 fire support squads or 20 half-squads. It's all good.

[CCE1981]

I was “forced” into it, but I ended up liking it. I am developing my own chapter and that inspired me to create the unofficial rank of “demi-sergeant”. I generally love creating unconventional lists. Tournament lists bore me, when I accidentally come up with those I retire them quickly.

 

To add to the discussion, a Blood Angels Librarian with the relic Jump Pack and Wings of Sanguinious psychic power is a great harrasser that isn’t being discussed much. I took one in the same game I was “forced” to split my Tactical Squads in, he ended up harrassing a unit of Eldar ghost reapers? the guys with the crazy gun that get more shots if they hit, it was hilarious to see then not using their flamers in overwatch!

[Tamiel]

Besides, Guilliman adjusted the Codex. A company can have x squads of something or 2x half-strength squads. For example the 9th reserve company can have 10 fire support squads or 20 half-squads. It's all good.

Where did you find this?

[Frater Cornelius]

 

Besides, Guilliman adjusted the Codex. A company can have x squads of something or 2x half-strength squads. For example the 9th reserve company can have 10 fire support squads or 20 half-squads. It's all good.

Where did you find this?

 

 

Codex: Space Marines, page 12, first paragraph (not counting the bold-printed sub-header).