Trade-off for Special Characters vs Relics in Successors?

[Lord_Caerolion]

What do people think about the tradeoff of our new Relics for the successor Chapters? I know most are going to play as Blood Angels with counts as, but what about the people who want to use Seth or Malakim Phoros? I'm currently torn with my Lamenters. On one hand, the new relics are incredibly tempting, but the special character is pretty awesome too. 

 

What are peoples thoughts? Is it worth trading off the Veritas Vitae etc for a Chapter-specific character and mediocre single relic?

[Panzer]

To be completely honest....we don't have any game breaking relics. The standard is the closest it gets for us.

 

So unless you are min-maxing your list or want some additional options for your characters I don't think it hurts too much to play your Lamenters as Lamenters and your Flesh Tearers as Flesh Tearers.

Then again I also wouldn't play Chapter Masters or other special characters all the time either unless it's for min-maxing purposes.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'll admit I just get jealous seeing the older brothers getting their numerous special characters and cool toys, while I get my (admittedly awesome) character and a sword that's better at killing daemons. 

 

Well, I'm a Lamenter, I'm used to taking what I'm given and coming out on top. If I'm limited to Phoros and a daemon-killing sword, then I guess I'm killing daemons while Phoros watches!

[Noctus Cornix]

Wait. I'm a little confused. I know the Lamenters and Flesh Tearers have their respective chapter masters... but where do they have chapter specific relics? I only see the ones for Blood Angels. 

[Panzer]

Wait. I'm a little confused. I know the Lamenters and Flesh Tearers have their respective chapter masters... but where do they have chapter specific relics? I only see the ones for Blood Angels. :huh:

You misunderstood. They don't.

[JamesI]

As an Angel Vermillion player, I get nothing other than an artifact I don't want. 

 

I played as dark red Blood Angels.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Blood Angels get the Hammer, Veritas Vitae, Staff, Standard and Wing, but any Successor Chapter doesn't have access to those, only the Archangel's Shard. We also don't get access to any of the special characters. Basically, unless your datasheet says Blood Angels, and hasn't been exchanged for the keyword of a Successor Chapter, you only get the Shard, and only your specific special characters, so Angels Vermilion etc don't even get that bit.

[Noctus Cornix]

Blood Angels get the Hammer, Veritas Vitae, Staff, Standard and Wing, but any Successor Chapter doesn't have access to those, only the Archangel's Shard. We also don't get access to any of the special characters. Basically, unless your datasheet says Blood Angels, and hasn't been exchanged for the keyword of a Successor Chapter, you only get the Shard, and only your specific special characters, so Angels Vermilion etc don't even get that bit.

 

Why wouldn't the Successor chapters have access to the relics?... There's nothing saying they can't.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Because it states that Successor Chapters may "Instead" take the Archangels Shard, and in the case of the strategems, even explicitly states that Successors cannot use the Armoury of Baal strategem. The Codex specifically differentiates between Blood Angel units, and the Blood Angel successor Chapters. The Hammer etc are only available to Blood Angel units, which Lamenters or Flesh Tearers are not.

[Panzer]

 

 

Blood Angels get the Hammer, Veritas Vitae, Staff, Standard and Wing, but any Successor Chapter doesn't have access to those, only the Archangel's Shard. We also don't get access to any of the special characters. Basically, unless your datasheet says Blood Angels, and hasn't been exchanged for the keyword of a Successor Chapter, you only get the Shard, and only your specific special characters, so Angels Vermilion etc don't even get that bit.

 

 

Why wouldn't the Successor chapters have access to the relics?... There's nothing saying they can't.

Except that it does, right on top of the relic section.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Basically everywhere it mentions the Blood Angel keyword, it also differentiates for the Successor Chapters, as their own separate keywords. Successors don't automatically get what the Blood Angels do.

[Noctus Cornix]

Ahh, gottcha. Thank you all for clarifying that for me.

[Charlo]

You get a relic for free, and while it sucks not having the banner or the Angel's wing, you don't need them to be successful.

 

Seth is a Monster and Malakim Phoros is a beast in his own right (apparently he also has a Chapter Master aura according to FW emails... So YMMV) and you get a free situationally better sword.

 

It sucks losing Lemartes though, but if you aren't planning on running DC it's no big deal.

[Captain_Krash]

Malakim Phoros is a beast and not a bad trade off to not take relics/DC heavy playstyle. I mean yeah it would be great to get access to BA stuff but you can also not take Malakim and just use the BA keyword for your Lementers.

 

Krash