How to field DW Terminators

[Lion El Jason]

Remember the ancient brings 5 attacks and can have a thunder hammer.  He equals a Knight, so 6 Knights Ancient and Asmodai is best...  but not sure if best for points.

[Lion El Jason]

 

I don't think this is the best use of your warlord trait but...

Have you seen what Asmodai does to DW Knights now?

5 Knights, Asmodai and DW Ancient in a LRC (Add DW Champ/others/additional Knights to fill the Land Raider as you like) gives a charge with the 4 knights getting 4 attacks each at Str 10, rerolling misses.

If you can wipe out a unit (Why not?) then consolidate into another unit, pile in and fight again with the strategem, this easily removes pretty much any elite deathstar twice.

Its str 9. You apply the multiplier first then add any bonus. Its has been faqd somewhere.

Nope, while your order is correct, you ALWAYS apply weapon modifiers after other str modifiers. Its in the 8th Ed designer notes.

[Trunkello]

 

 

I don't think this is the best use of your warlord trait but...

Have you seen what Asmodai does to DW Knights now?

5 Knights, Asmodai and DW Ancient in a LRC (Add DW Champ/others/additional Knights to fill the Land Raider as you like) gives a charge with the 4 knights getting 4 attacks each at Str 10, rerolling misses.

If you can wipe out a unit (Why not?) then consolidate into another unit, pile in and fight again with the strategem, this easily removes pretty much any elite deathstar twice.

Its str 9. You apply the multiplier first then add any bonus. Its has been faqd somewhere.

Nope, while your order is correct, you ALWAYS apply weapon modifiers after other str modifiers. Its in the 8th Ed designer notes.

Oh okay. Thanks for correcting me. Then its great if mortarion try to cast +1 tougness upon himself.

[march10k]

 

 

 

Make it seven knights and the ancient.  That's actually cheaper than five knights, ancient, and Asmodai, and you get six bonus attacks from the two extra bodies, not the 4+1 bonus swings that Asmodai would give the five knights.

 

Asmodai has a greater effect than the +1 attack, they also re-roll misses in the fight phase

 

 

That's true enough.  Applying that to what I said, it sounds like 7 knights and Asmodai is the way to go, then, no ancient.

 

 

If you go with Asmodai in that setup don't forget you can take another PA character like an Apothecary, lieutenant or Zeke/Libby. 

 

Ah, yes.  That's right.  I'm thinking lieutenant.

[march10k]

Remember the ancient brings 5 attacks and can have a thunder hammer.  He equals a Knight, so 6 Knights Ancient and Asmodai is best...  but not sure if best for points.

It depends.  Since he's a separate unit, he'd be better than a 7th knight if you're looking to charge multiple targets.  But, throw him into the same melee as the knights, and he gets picked on for an early drop in offensive output, a unit destroyed, etc.  And he's an additional drop, in cases where that matters.  When playing mech Deathwing, It'll never matter against armies designed to go first by having only a couple of drops, and it'll never matter against a brigade.  But against a relatively elite army that doesn't go to drop-minimizing extremes at the cost of some combat effectiveness? That one extra drop might make a big difference.

[Lion El Jason]

Thats true about the combat, he could be picked out.  I am thinking only about the crusader units output, though even if he doesn't get into combat he gives +6 attacks to the unit as opposed to +3 attacks from a knight in his spot.
For wiping out 2 defensive units in a turn I think he's the way to go.

 

Also drops won't matter if you're starting them all in the crusader, you drop all at once.

[ShadowCore67]

 

 

I don't think this is the best use of your warlord trait but...

Have you seen what Asmodai does to DW Knights now?

5 Knights, Asmodai and DW Ancient in a LRC (Add DW Champ/others/additional Knights to fill the Land Raider as you like) gives a charge with the 4 knights getting 4 attacks each at Str 10, rerolling misses.

If you can wipe out a unit (Why not?) then consolidate into another unit, pile in and fight again with the strategem, this easily removes pretty much any elite deathstar twice.

Its str 9. You apply the multiplier first then add any bonus. Its has been faqd somewhere.

Nope, while your order is correct, you ALWAYS apply weapon modifiers after other str modifiers. Its in the 8th Ed designer notes.

What page can that be found on?

[Lion El Jason]

 

 

 

I don't think this is the best use of your warlord trait but...

Have you seen what Asmodai does to DW Knights now?

5 Knights, Asmodai and DW Ancient in a LRC (Add DW Champ/others/additional Knights to fill the Land Raider as you like) gives a charge with the 4 knights getting 4 attacks each at Str 10, rerolling misses.

If you can wipe out a unit (Why not?) then consolidate into another unit, pile in and fight again with the strategem, this easily removes pretty much any elite deathstar twice.

Its str 9. You apply the multiplier first then add any bonus. Its has been faqd somewhere.

Nope, while your order is correct, you ALWAYS apply weapon modifiers after other str modifiers. Its in the 8th Ed designer notes.

What page can that be found on?

 

 

Page 1

 

Q: If a rule modifies a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?

 

A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.

 

For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.

[dtse]

So I actually tried. I put a 10 man cataphractii unit together with storm bolters and lightning claws. I looked at the points and then erased the list lol

[Conine]

I noticed the new power sword relic seemed decent. A master in TDA picking his own warlord trait with it is 39 pts cheaper than Belial now.

[Stormxlr]

I noticed the new power sword relic seemed decent. A master in TDA picking his own warlord trait with it is 39 pts cheaper than Belial now.

Ye but Belial gives you full reroll and he is quite decent melee beatstick

[Endgame]

Exactly. The full rerolls are important for death wing assault strat, if youre bringing heavy weapons.

 

I want to build consecrators but don't want to get into arguments about using "counts as" characters, and you don't have an option to get full rerolls any other way.

[Conine]

Yeah the rerolls are nice but if you want to get the +1A and a non crappy warlord trait you have to take either Asmodai and another HQ + Belial or an ancient and another HQ + Belial or dump Belial for Azrael. By taking the master you save pretty much the whole cost of Belial by not having to take a third character and can get the +1A from Asmodai as your second HQ.

[CaptainCaveman87]

Yeah the rerolls are nice but if you want to get the +1A and a non crappy warlord trait you have to take either Asmodai and another HQ + Belial or an ancient and another HQ + Belial or dump Belial for Azrael. By taking the master you save pretty much the whole cost of Belial by not having to take a third character and can get the +1A from Asmodai as your second HQ.

Couldn't you just make the ancient your warlord?

 

Captain

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

I like the idea that was mentioned in another thread. You could run a Dark Talon or two, advance them forward turn one in a bomb run over the chaff. Combine that with a 10-man terminator squad with 2 missile launchers, combat squadded to form a firing squad and a melee squad. Drop the melee squad and have the Deathwing Assault the next screen or the remains of the first. Drop the melee combat squad on the side to prevent anyone from escaping your Deathwing. Then drop the Deathwing Knights in, with an Ancient and a Company Master or Chaplain, and prepare for charges.

 

You are looking at around 1232 points by my estimation, for 10 terminators with 3 shields (one on the sgt) and 2 cyclone missile launchers, a dark talon, 5 kinghts, an ancient and an IC in terminator armor. Expensive, but might be a lot of fun to play... the thing is, you need a LOT of small infantry squads on the back line, holding the board while this arrives.

Combine it with Sisters of Battle to hold the board and get Acts of Faith shooting and you've got a stew for board clearing during the movement phase going. Tried it a few nights ago and it was pretty damn interesting.

[Kasper_Hawser]

A query if I may to the sons of the Lion: how are the "new" Cataphractii and Tartaros armour recently made available to the Deathwing? Do they open new tactics for the Deathwing, and if so, how do they defer from the traditional Deathwing formations in practice? (Meaning how do they perform compared to Deathwing Knights and regular Deathwing teams)

 

I'm not sure of the points cost though I'm fairly familiar with the weapons loadout of both terminators. Just wanted to know if any has used them in Deathwing colors and what's the feedback on them? This is also in preparation for my own Wolves eventually getting both armours too.

[Berzul]

I have a game against Tyranids tomorrow, at 2000 points.

 

I plan on trying this strategy, of bringing in 10 terminators, with 2 Assault Cannons and 3 Storm Shields, combat squad them, drop the Assault Cannons team first and use Deathwing Assault, then drop the Storm Shields team along an Ancient and an Interrogator-Chaplain with Master of Maneuver to charge in. I am trying to fit in a Dark Talon as well, but that is proving difficult... Lets see how it plays out.

[Berzul]

Managed to add the Dark Talon. Here is the list I plan on playing. I'm going to try this against a Tyranid player tomorrow, and see how it plays out.

[G8Keeper]

Interested how this works Berzul. I just went through my DW stuff (a big to do list) and somehow I have 75 terminators Edited December 29, 2017 by G8Keeper

[Berzul]

Interested how this works Berzul. I just went through my DW stuff (a big to do list) and somehow I have 75 terminators

[G8Keeper]

 

Thanks!! Ill try and write a battle report on the fight.

 

And yes, you have a problem. You are still 25 models short.

 

 

You're my new favourite person!

[GenerationTerrorist]

Had a game today against Death Guard, ad ran a pure DW list, as per my thread from a few days ago in that section of the forum.

 

Faced a Pox Walker horde with Typhus, Plagueguaster, Blightlord Terminators and MM-Fist Hellbrute in a Battalion Detachment, with a DP with wings and a trio of Bloat Drones in an Outrider Detachment.

 

I lost, barely. The biggest problem being that my Terminators/Knights just could not do enough damage to wipe out units either from range or in close.  Or they eventually (due to bad dice luck) got bogged down. My Dreadnoughts also had the same issue.

 

In essence, I think that basic Terminators are worth around 21pts with no gear. 26pts is simply not worth the extra +1 save, +1A, +1W and 5++ when compared to a 14pt Tactical Marine. Look at a basic Primaris Marine at 18pts. Add whatever you think +1save and a 5++ is worth.

I also think that Land Raiders, of all varieties, are around 80pts overcosted in this edition.

 

No way am I backing off, though! The 1st are always my original love of 40K! Next game is tomorrow against a Nidzilla list. I think it could be a better match for my army to face than horde type armies.

 

For The Lion.

[Berzul]

Ok so, I just had the fight with the Tyranids... I gotta say, the strategy DOES seem to have merit, and I DO believe that it can work wonderfully. It wasn't the case in this battle, though. Not at all. I think the issue lies with the opponent I tried it against, not in the tactic itself.

 

I will have to experiment with the list a lot more, before I decide if it is really not worth the effort.

[Berzul]

So, thinking it over, here is what I can figure out for a second attempt at the strategy:

 

Splitting the unit into combat squads is maybe not the best idea. Sure, seems fairly good to spend less CP and have a melee squad to charge in afterwards.

 

But, your opponent will most likely take wounds off the back or at least leave the unit you are firing at in such a formation as to keep you from dropping a lot farther back than you'd like.

 

In the end, a 9 inch charge is still hard to pull off, no matter how much screen you kill. Therefore, I think that maybe it is best to go all out. Being a 10 man squad with two heavy weapons, 8 storm bolters, and just fire all you have.

 

Also, I think that bringing in a Master in Jump Pack is a must. You are burning a LOT of CP. You need to make sure you have the most amout of shots, but also that you land the most amount of those shots.

 

Bringing in the Dark Talon for support, also, is a good idea. It can help with the stasis bomb, and also adds some threat to the advancing formation.

[RayJ]

I've used the Deathwing Assault strategem a few times on a unit with 10 storm bolters and 2 cyclones. I think it's definitely an opponent dependent thing. I've had just as many games where it did well as not, but the CP investment is huge.

 

In all games where I did this, Belial was supporting the squad by jumping first (sometimes and hiding out of LOS to prevent strategems fom allowing opponents to gun him down.