Unit of the Week: Commander Dante

[Jolemai]

 

Welcome to part one of the Blood Angels Unit of the Week Series!
 
Following the release of the 9^th edition Supplement, there is no better time to discuss all the units we have access to. Each week a different unit will appear, with the idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield. Where part one will focus on the unique BA units and part two will focus on BA units that are new to this edition of the Codex, part three will discuss how to get the best use the generic units from the past that are still with us (and that many of us have in our armies still), and part four will discuss the Legends units that we still own and love. Finally, part five will be dedicated to the reinforcements from Forge World.
 
Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; it matters not if you feel something is a better choice as such comments aren't constructive to the topic and shall be removed.
 
Without further ado, here's this week's entry:

Commander Dante

Commander Dante, evildrcheese

What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use Dante?

• To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the Chapter Approved changes affect your list(s)?
• Are you taking his Warlord Trait and/or making use of the +1 CP?
• How are you buffing this unit? Will it babysit anything?
• Stratagem synergy of note?

Over to you.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Jolemai

[Charlo]

I suppose his biggest strength over his contemporaries is:

 

Mobility

Combat Prowess

 

Wings of Fire means he can get those re-rolls where needed (even if it's on the other side of the table).

 

His Heroic intervension isn't bad and he could even be played rather defensively, using he re-rolls and conter-charge ability.

 

But, when marines hit on a 3+ and a cheap captain can let you re-roll 1s anyway I'm not sure where the expensive Dante fits in!

[Panzer]

I think deploying him either in reserves or together with a shooty unit for the re-rolls is viable depending on what you're facing etc.

After that I'd definitely try to bring him into melee. Unless your opponent wants to get into melee as well, then I'd use him as counter-charge unit due his heroic intervention range.

Later on you can still re-deploy him where needed to catch some seperate units, provide more re-rolls or be ready for another counter-charge. He can easily turn easy prey for the enemy into a charge he doesn't want to do late game when units aren't at full strength anymore.

[Indefragable]

All gripes and wishlisting aside, dealing with Dante as he is currently:

 

He is the single most mobile source of “re-roll all to hit” in the game. Between his jump pack and Wings of Fire, he can be wherever you want him to be.

 

He is also a quite decent assassin, with a 2+ re-rollable inferno pistol and a 2+ re-rollable Axe Mortalis that ideally will be re-rolling To Wound as well.

 

However, many of the units you would initially think he would be best with (SG, DC) have better synergy elsewhere: SG using their Azkaellon rules and DC should* be running with a DC-Capt and Lemartes for that synergy.

 

Personally, I think Dante’s current “best” uses are:

 

1. Red Wing:

if you run a lot of flyers (guilty) he is an excellent way to buff their shooting

 

2. Shoot and scoot:

Put him in a gunline and buff them up. Then use Wings of Fire to reposition him with your other units that just came in from DS.

[lazyj]

Why do you say Dante has a 6" heroic intervention? His warlord trait is heroic bearing, which allows units within 6" to pass morale.

 

Or am I missing something?

[Jolemai]

Why do you say Dante has a 6" heroic intervention? His warlord trait is heroic bearing, which allows units within 6" to pass morale.

 

Or am I missing something?

What can I say? Have to throw in a blooper to make sure people read the thread...

 

:Blush:

 

(Will fix when I'm next at a desktop, cheers)

[Silverson]

I have considered using Dante to drop down near two unit types:

 

Company veterans with jump packs and Melta guns. I would say a minimum of two units for this and try and nuke something.

 

Vanguard veterans with plasma pistol, chainsword. Similar vain to the company veterans but with two units 10 strong its gives a lot more bodies to protect Dante if needed. Re-rolls on the plasma pistols should do a lot of damage.

 

Either way I would start Dante on the board buffing back field units and wait for the right opertunity to re-deploy Dante with the stratagem when the veterans drop in.

[Panzer]

 

Why do you say Dante has a 6" heroic intervention? His warlord trait is heroic bearing, which allows units within 6" to pass morale.

 

Or am I missing something?

What can I say? Have to throw in a blooper to make sure people read the thread...

 

 

(Will fix when I'm next at a desktop, cheers)

 

Well...scratch what I said in my post then. :D

[Brother Aether]

This is an interesting thread, thanks for starting it Jolemai. I dislike Dante's forced Warlord Trait, and I think for my points if I am looking for a beatstick, I would focus on a captain. In the loadout thread here I talk about comparing Dante to a standard JP captain with some added Wargear options. I'm looking for feedback, so I'm excited to see what anyone might post there!

 

Edit 1: Edited Link

 

Edit 2 Below: Updated after Jolemai's reminder!

 

With respect to how to use Dante, the above notions of rerolling all hits is particularly intriguing. As befits his status as Chapter Master, I like the idea of keeping him around a gunline (like Hellblasters, Devastators, Predators) for the first few turns, and then perhaps pairing him with some Storm Shield-bearing Vanguard Veterans with power weapons/Thunder Hammers to be able to do a later-game (maybe Turn 2 or 3) strike on an exposed vulnerable unit. I think the VVs with SSs would provide a good screen for him, while his re-rolls would allow all VVs (especially those with THs) take out something critical. In particular, I think a Turn 2 or 3 strategy would be best (as mentioned in the thread on dropping multiple smaller strike forces) because this is the likely point at which your opponent's bubble wrap will be coming undone and you can really get to some of the meatier targets that those PWs/THs will excel against.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Brother Aether

[9x19 Parabellum]

Having looked at Dante, I just think he has all the problems of a hybrid type character/model.

 

He's a force multiplier, insomuch as he's a Chapter Master and his Warlord Trait (and, to a lesser extent, Death Mask). And of course he pays handsomely to be a Chapter Master.

 

He's also a world class beatstick; and he pays handsomely for that.

 

The problem is that meshing those two abilities is not easy.  For example, his Chapter Master ability (one would think) should mesh nicely with a forward assault list. The problem is that one of our premier assault units (Sang Guard) carries their to-hit buff with them. So this is largely wasted.  Unless Dante is not your warlord of course, since his own buff kicks in regardless of whether or not he's your Warlord.

 

You might think, then, 'well, he can roll with Death Company and buff them'. Sure...except, LeMartes does the same job (and more) for almost half the frekkin' price. 

 

So then...stick him in the back with shooting stuff to buff them; devastators and what-not.  Fine...except then you're not leveraging his beatstick abilities, nor his death mask, and probably not his Warlord Trait (it's likely your Dev squads are MSU, or nearly so), and it's also probable that your forward assault elements are going to see more action...because...PRESSURE!

 

For fewer points than Dante, I can get a cheap captain to babysit our rearguard firebase, AND LeMartes to buff my Death Company (hits, charges and morale).  I also fullfill my minimum HQ's for a Battalion that way, and I don't have to spend any command points on Upon Wings of Fire or Psychic power on Wings of Sanguinius.

 

In more competitive play, you have to squeeze every point of efficiency out of every model.  Every unit/character must have a dedicated purpose, and do-it-all characters like Dante tend to carry a name-brand pricetag. But since you can't be leveraging all of their strengths at any one time (and certainly not enough of the time), the unfortunate results is waste/fat...and that means he has to go, sadly.  I'm not saying he's "garbage" by any stretch.  I'm sure he can serve us well in casual play and friendly games.

 

Grade: I give Dante a B/B- in terms of overall score.

Best used with:  Any forward assault armies that are NOT based around Death Company and/or Sanguinary guard, and that tend to have both shooting and close combat armaments: terminators (of any stripe and flavor), company veterans, vanguard veterans

 

Edited for grammar, syntax, spelling, readability, etc.

Edited December 12, 2017 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Thrown Pommel]

Dropping Dante in with plasma inceptors might be worth looking at to nuke a target.

 

I feel like he is best when buffing "red wing" Blood Angels. By this I mean our version of the Dark Angels' "Greenwing." Use Dante as a force multiplier for vanguard vets, inceptors, assault marines, etc.

 

Could also be useful protecting a mobile armor column, like baal preds or sicarans.

 

Otherwise I feel like other characters support specialist units, such as DC and SG, better and for a lower cost.

[Blindhamster]

He needs to be given synergy with the sanguinary guard. I.e. his mask needs to stack with theirs, and they need some kind of synergistic buff to make up for their rerolls being useless with him - perhaps they could gain the bodyguard rule but only when alongside Dante, or something like that

[Jolemai]

The idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield. Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same.

 

 

Just a gentle reminder that wishlisting and saying what a model needs offers little to the discussion.

[Blindhamster]

In which case, use him in a less fluffy force that doesn't use sanguinary guard.

 

Company vets kitted for combat would be okay, allowing him to so his job in combat without worrying about being battered by chaff.

 

Vanguard vets are also a good call to run with him.

 

Use upon wings of fire to move him to whichever unit needs to get his rerolls each turn.

 

Trouble is, as a buffing unit, a regular captain will usually do almost as good a job for half the points cost.

[neonmole]

Personally I think Dante is actually quite strong.

 

I agree he is very expensive, and it’s a shame he doesn’t give any CPs / his abilities don’t synergise that wel with SG (latter is easily solved by just making another characrer your WL - not fluffy but hey ho).

 

That said, he is an absolute weapon against the right targets, which he can pretty reliably access due to his mobility. There are very few non primarch characters that can hope to stand up to his charge. And even they are a bit worried if you use a single CP on “red rampage”.

 

To make best use of his re roll aura, I recommnd using him in a list with considerable shooting capabilities (ie at least half your points) that is more midrange/counter attack orientated than straight melee rush.

 

In this kind of list I think he has a very solid place. I have been using something like this with a great deal of success!

[Jolemai]

Folks, what buffs would you consider regularly giving Dante?

[Brother Aether]

Folks, what buffs would you consider regularly giving Dante?

 

I hope I'm understanding the question correctly...

 

In terms of character aura buffs, I think this really depends on the 'retinue' you pair with him. I see three potent buffer character choices (and I would be tempted to choose just 1 of these, for point cost reasons):

• JP Lieutenant
• JP Sanguinary Priest
• (Sanguinary) Ancient with Relic Banner

I think if his retinue is TH/SS Vanguard Veterans, I would usually opt for the JP Lieutenant: He's cheap, and his re-rolls of 1s to wound combined with Dante's re-rolls of misses means that each hard-hitting TH strike is a lot more accurate than usual (as most TH will wound a target on a 2+ anyway thanks to Red Thirst) and combined with Dante's axe attacks could be brutal. If you're looking at taking down a LR or other high Toughness targets, the Sanguinary Priest may be better.

 

If his retinue is something like LC Vanguard Veterans, they already get re-rolls to wound from the LC (inherently) and with his re-rolls of misses, the additional strength from a Sanguinary Priest would improve them to have a better likelihood to wound T5 and T8–9. Although Dante would miss out on wound re-rolls, extra strength could help against T6–7 opponents (i.e., many high Toughness units).

 

Finally, if I were looking for unit survivability, any JP-equipped Ancient with the Relic Banner could work wonders. I think I'd be tempted to pair with a Sanguinary Ancient if I had the points, but as we've stated, I think enhancing Dante with buffs we should also account for his high point cost; a JP Lieutenant or JP Priest, or a non-Sanguinary Ancient could help decrease the point cost of an already expensive cluster. This would, however, give him a 33% chance to avoid taking wounds, which makes him last longer.

 

In terms of Stratagems as buffs, I think the following based on those that would be applicable here:

• Behold the Golden Host: Improves radius of his Death Mask – Situational
• Upon Wings of Fire: Helps him relocate on the board – Very Useful
• Orbital Bombardment: Requires you not to move – Situational
• Descent of Angels: Better Charge Chances – I'd prefer use this on a larger unit of DC or SG
• Red Rampage: +D3 attacks for 1CP – Useful
• Vengeance for Sanguinius: Could generate more attacks – Situational, as I'd usually prefer to use this on a larger unit for more possible extra attacks (although if you're fighting Black Legion...)
• Only in Death Does Duty End: Shoot or Fight upon death – Situational, as this requires him to die, but as discussed his 4++ can only go so far against mass attacks

Playing to Dante's strengths we listed above, mobility and ability as a beatstick are crucial, so I see Red Rampage and Upon Wings of Fire as the more commonly used stratagems for Dante.

 

What do you all think?

Edited December 14, 2017 by Brother Aether

[9x19 Parabellum]

Folks, what buffs would you consider regularly giving Dante?

 

Not sure what you mean, Jolemai.  As a named character, he can't take any relics or pick his warlord trait. Heroic Bearing is not awful, but most Marine units that are MSU are fairly immune to Morale anyway.  Death Company is the big one to roll as a mob, but they don't synergize fantastically withe Dante.

 

For Psychic powers, Unleah Rage is really the only BA "buff" he benefits from.  If you really want to powergame, I'd recommend throwing an allied C:SM libby in and get him Might of Heroes and Buddy System Dante with Null Zone to allow Dante the ability to carve through Invulns.  The BA Libby can carry the Veritas Vitae to help with CP recovery and buff unleash rage.  Throw in your Sang ancient with Standard of Sacrifice to reroll wounds and 5+++.

 

Corbs I'd leave out since he can't keep up, but take a Jump pack Sanguinary Priest for +1 str. Along with Might of Heroes, Dante's now hitting at Str 8, which means 3's to wound Land Raiders/Knights/Baneblades, and 2's for everything else.

 

There's really no other good HQ that synergizes with Dante, except perhaps a cheap Jump Lt (but I'd go with the Sang Ancient for that), as all of them tend to buff hit rolls (Astorath, for example, does nothing for Dante) or Morael or both, and Dante doesn't need that, being a chapter master with his particular morale warlord trait.  Sanguinor will lend him another attack, but for 170 pts. that just too expensive, and the overlapping buffs (death mask, hit rolls) is not cost effective.

LMAO. Ninja'd by Brother Aethere, and with the exact same HQ aura buffs as I suggested (except he forgot Libbys)

[Brother Aether]

 

LMAO. Ninja'd by Brother Aethere, and with the exact same HQ aura buffs as I suggested (except he forgot Libbys)

 

 

Nice! I think the only thing I would say is that, similar to stratagems, I would prefer cast the Librarian Powers on a larger unit (although it could go either way)...

[Blindhamster]

interesting one actually...

Could Dante take on Abaddon? I'd initially assume no... but between vengeance of Sanguinius and Red Rampage? Maybe?

[Panzer]

interesting one actually...

 

Could Dante take on Abaddon? I'd initially assume no... but between vengeance of Sanguinius and Red Rampage? Maybe?

Then again Abaddon has some pretty neat Stratagems at his disposal as well with Veterans of the Long War and the Chaos god specific ones (mainly nurgle and khorne here).

If we add psychic powers he can become even nastier with a possible +2S, +1A or a 5+++ or buffing his invul to a 3++ or a -1 to-hit modifier for attacks against him or a +1 to-hit modifier to trigger Death to the False Emperor on a 5+ already.

 

Would be a pretty interesting match between those two I'd say. ^^

[brother_b]

 

 

 

 

interesting one actually...

 

Could Dante take on Abaddon? I'd initially assume no... but between vengeance of Sanguinius and Red Rampage? Maybe?

Then again Abaddon has some pretty neat Stratagems at his disposal as well with Veterans of the Long War and the Chaos god specific ones (mainly nurgle and khorne here).

If we add psychic powers he can become even nastier with a possible +2S, +1A or a 5+++ or buffing his invul to a 3++ or a -1 to-hit modifier for attacks against him or a +1 to-hit modifier to trigger Death to the False Emperor on a 5+ already.

 

Would be a pretty interesting match between those two I'd say. ^^

In Horus vs Sanguinous round two I would pick Dante over Abadon. Not for any specific reason but just because faith is my armor and I know the holy cubed determiners of fate would fall on our side.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

interesting one actually...

 

Could Dante take on Abaddon? I'd initially assume no... but between vengeance of Sanguinius and Red Rampage? Maybe?

Then again Abaddon has some pretty neat Stratagems at his disposal as well with Veterans of the Long War and the Chaos god specific ones (mainly nurgle and khorne here).

If we add psychic powers he can become even nastier with a possible +2S, +1A or a 5+++ or buffing his invul to a 3++ or a -1 to-hit modifier for attacks against him or a +1 to-hit modifier to trigger Death to the False Emperor on a 5+ already.

 

Would be a pretty interesting match between those two I'd say. ^^

In Horus vs Sanguinous round two I would pick Dante over Abadon. Not for any specific reason but just because faith is my armor and I know the holy cubed determiners of fate would fall on our side.

 

I'd pick Captain Smash over both. :D

[Blindhamster]

if we assume a one on one fight between dante and captain smash, both have the same access to stratagems, it'd come down to who gets first turn mostly.

However, odds are stacked in Dantes favour in a one on one with captain smash:

 

Dante has 2 more attacks base (i know captain smash will use a stratagem on getting an extra attack and the 6+++, which helps him out a bit), Dante has 1 more wound base, dante rerolls all to hit rolls and all to wound rolls and was hitting on 2s in the first place and wounding on 2s in the first place (vs the captain hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s).

Captain smash does more damage (4 vs dantes average of 2),

Basically, mutual destruction is likely.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Zynk Kaladin]

Dante's reroll hit aura is better than the captain's aura when BA units shoot enemy units in cover as well as BA heavy weapons that move.  As much as we love our new codex CC prowess, 8th still remains a shooty edition and we must always remember to play to the objectives on the tabletop, not necessarily seek to annihilate our enemies the Blood Angel way.  Because of this I build lists that gives me options and Dante remains a very competitive option to achieve this despite being overpriced.  With Upon Wings of Fire he can buff what I need, when I need, where I need it at will.  To me that's very powerful.

 

So far my troop core has been 3 5 man tactical squads with lascannons and 3 razorbacks with twin lascannons.  Dante remains on the board and rerolls hits on 9 lascannon shots which comfortably hit targets in cover.  Additionally, I can move 3 LCs 6" and 6 LCs 12" and still be extremely confident in their effectiveness.

 

As others have noted, Dante is great with melta and plasma toting jump pack assault marines.  If my opponent is aggressive and alpha strikes I have a reactionary force of these JPASM with rerolls to hit.  If my opponent is passive I have 3 turns of long range shooting then I deep strike the JPASM and Upon Wings of Fire Dante to the front to support the JPASM.  I also deepstrike a full unit of Death Company or Vanguard Vets and often use Descent of Angels to get them into CC with any infantry that needs dying.

 

In terms of combat I use Dante as a counter charger or to support my CC elements, not as a beatstick.  Mephiston is usually my smash-face and can provide +1A to my DC or VV through Unleash Rage while Dante gives them rerolls to hit.