Unit of the Week: Commander Dante

[brother_b]

I couldn't see where Dante rerolls wound rolls. Is that from a previous edition?

[lazyj]

I couldn't see where Dante rerolls wound rolls. Is that from a previous edition?

The Axe Mortalis has reroll to wound, but only against characters.

[Blindhamster]

Makes him quite an effective character killer between more attacks than any other chapter master, rerolls all to hit and all to wound rolls, hitting on 2s and wounding most characters on 2s or 3s, a good AP mod and d3 damage per hit.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Blindhamster

[brother_b]

Yeah re read that's pretty amazing. I just need to build him and get some games in with him.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Hey Jolemai...just a request, for this series (which I love by the way), especially regarding HQ's, can we maybe get, like...2 HQs of the week?  I'm excited to move on to the next round of HQs :-)

[Mezkh]

He's so good with 15 DC. Reroll 3 Bolter hits, then all their CC hits, and fixes their Morale. Then he is a massive beatstick on his own.

[Brother Crimson]

He's so good with 15 DC. Reroll 3 Bolter hits, then all their CC hits, and fixes their Morale. Then he is a massive beatstick on his own.

Of course but is it better than lemartes + priest for exemple ? His cost is pretty high.

 

One thing I noticed is that he is a source of scare factor. Keep him side do the devastators and a lot of people that are tempted to charge them might think twice about it because he can kill a lot in a fight phase.

[Are Verlo]

He is good, but you pay a premium for both his buffs (chaper master and he comes with a decent trait) and his ability as a duelist. Even with a 12” move and stratagems it is hard to use him to do both in an efficient way. Perhaps he could do good in an army designed around his traits?

 

Just brainstorming here, got no points at hand:

Dante and a firebase supported by two «manouver-groups».

One group could be two SG units and SG ancient led by a SP with JP. The SP could be warlord to provide the SGs with rerolls.

The last group could be DC?

If the firebase consists of relatively mobile units like single speeders and predators (even baal preds) they can if needed shuffle to grab objectives or joint the rush to the front.

[olcottr]

Anti-tank role: Dante with an Assault Squad advancing with Meltaguns.

[Karhedron]

Makes him quite an effective character killer between more attacks than any other chapter master, rerolls all to hit and all to wound rolls, hitting on 2s and wounding most characters on 2s or 3s, a good AP mod and d3 damage per hit.

I think that Captain Smashypants exceeds Dante's damage output and again costs around half the points.

[Panzer]

 

Makes him quite an effective character killer between more attacks than any other chapter master, rerolls all to hit and all to wound rolls, hitting on 2s and wounding most characters on 2s or 3s, a good AP mod and d3 damage per hit.

I think that Captain Smashypants exceeds Dante's damage output and again costs around half the points.

 

And also needs CP.

I think they are pretty much equally matched.

Keep in mind that many Stratagems you can use on Captain Smash you could also use on Dante. ;)

[Xerxus]

I think the best comparison can be made to Kayvaan Shrike in the SM codex. They are very similar, here are the pros and cons:

 

Dante: +1 W, +1 A, +1 armour save, +2 S on melee attacks, inferno pistol, death mask. 215 pts

 

Kayvaan: Rerolls all of his wound rolls in melee. Provides a 6'' aura in which ALL jump pack infantry gets to reroll charges. 150 pts

 

Dante is probably slightly better overall but not 65 pts better.

[Brother Crimson]

Yeah shrike is good, our closest to him for similar cost is lemartes, but I guess lemartes will be featured as a unit of the week at one point.

[Blindhamster]

I feel Dante is better than shrine by a fair bit honestly. By horses for courses

[Are Verlo]

 

Makes him quite an effective character killer between more attacks than any other chapter master, rerolls all to hit and all to wound rolls, hitting on 2s and wounding most characters on 2s or 3s, a good AP mod and d3 damage per hit.

I think that Captain Smashypants exceeds Dante's damage output and again costs around half the points.

 

In a match with Dante vs the captain , dante suffers 6.48 wounds while the captain suffers 5.19. This changes in favour of the captein if he is suffering from death visions and is charging. Calculations is based on D4 thunderhammer. And since each extra attack from stratagems does more damage with the hammer than the axe mortalis, the captain scales better with CP spendt on rampage. (Having the cap for warlord  has other risks. If the kamikaze captain is WL for D4 on his hammer, it is probably more likely that the enemy is getting slay the warlord).

 

VS non-characters Dantes damage output pales in comparison. (Even vs the two daemonic brohers).

 

So Dante is good vs characters and very reliable with his rerolls (hits 35/36 and wounds characters with T5 and less with a 35/36 probability) and provides stronger rerolls than the kamikaze captain (who often will be seeking a glorious death. He reminds me of WHFB troll/giant slayers).

 

TL:DNR: They are quite different, one is a force mutliplier that fights fairly well and the other is a blood crazed kamikaze missile :-D

[Jolemai]

Folks, this thread is about getting the best use out of Dante. As interesting as they are, comparisons with other units are irrelevant as they don't fit the topic at hand.

[Are Verlo]

Sorry about that. I got a bit carried away.

[tychobi]

Dante for me screams dual role buffer. Hang out with your devastators for a couple of rounds and then wings o fire over to the hot drop zone to make the elite smash face unit hit more. He really would help a large death company not take morale losses as they are now a bit flighty. Lemartes is optimal for mid size DC but I think Dante is good for the 15 strong unit. What i wouldn't give to have him provide a command point or three. . .

[lash144]

I'm kind of surprised to see no discussion about Dante post CA2018?

Do you think he is worth it now? I was thinking of running him up the board together with a blob of Intercessors and Aggressors, together with an SG ancient and then hAve both of them fly away to support a big squad of Vanguard Vets.

[PaladinStormlord]

I'm kind of surprised to see no discussion about Dante post CA2018?

Do you think he is worth it now? I was thinking of running him up the board together with a blob of Intercessors and Aggressors, together with an SG ancient and then hAve both of them fly away to support a big squad of Vanguard Vets.

After CA2018 he is a lot more affordable. But think many people are waiting for the rumored new Dante to be released. Dante as he sits now doesn't do a great job of representing how he is in the fluff, and is even lacking compared to some other chapter masters.

[Panzer]

I'm kind of surprised to see no discussion about Dante post CA2018?

Do you think he is worth it now? I was thinking of running him up the board together with a blob of Intercessors and Aggressors, together with an SG ancient and then hAve both of them fly away to support a big squad of Vanguard Vets.

 

Well these "unit of the week" threads are usually about HOW to use a specific unit, not whether you want to use it. So lower points will add only little to nothing to those discussion. ;)

 

I'm kind of surprised to see no discussion about Dante post CA2018?

Do you think he is worth it now? I was thinking of running him up the board together with a blob of Intercessors and Aggressors, together with an SG ancient and then hAve both of them fly away to support a big squad of Vanguard Vets.

After CA2018 he is a lot more affordable. But think many people are waiting for the rumored new Dante to be released. Dante as he sits now doesn't do a great job of representing how he is in the fluff, and is even lacking compared to some other chapter masters.

 

 

Since when is that a rumour? First time hearing about it. People are hoping for it, but people are hoping for a lot of things. That doesn't make it a rumour.

[Indefragable]

Dante for me screams dual role buffer. Hang out with your devastators for a couple of rounds and then wings o fire over to the hot drop zone to make the elite smash face unit hit more. He really would help a large death company not take morale losses as they are now a bit flighty. Lemartes is optimal for mid size DC but I think Dante is good for the 15 strong unit. What i wouldn't give to have him provide a command point or three. . .

 

^This.

 

The "best" use for Dante is when you want to full re-rolls for both shooting and CQC. He is the only way to do it and he does it in style as well.

 

It's kind of weird, but the worse the unit is the better mileage they get out of him nearby. Prime units for him to buff are Plasma Inceptors and Predators with Killshot. It gets weird because 15x DC w/ bolters actually are not benefited by him as much as you'd think since shooting a unit can sometimes make you have to charge further.

 

It never ceases to amuse me (in a cynical way) how Sanguinary Guard are probably the least useful unit to have near him since their Heirs rule is redundant with his buff....unless you run 2x squads, one with Dante and 1x with a seperate WL.

 

Captain Smash with +1D or Gift of Foresight is quite popular for obvious reasons, but Dante's WLT makes units in 6" Fearless which is much stronger than it seems. Especially in a gun line or such.

 

His inferno pistol is also not to be underestimated. He theoretically put out 6D (inferno) + 18D (6x3D) to a single target if you roll well, so he is no slouch in combat. That being said, T5 or other characters are his sweet spot since he can wound them on 2's.

 

In short, Dante is good but not enough to outweigh the opportunity cost of a Smash who can solo Knights and so forth. Even with his points drop, he simply does not bring enough to the table to warrant taking over a different character. That is sad, considering his iconic status in the fluff (and full bias: he is my favorite character in the whole setting). To be blunt, he really needs more rules/abilities to justify a go-to place in a lineup, let alone his legendary lore.

[lash144]

Dante actually does comparable damage to an Knight then a smash captain without artisan of war. Since most Knights are characters these day he rerolls all wounds against them which leads to an 75% chance of wounding vs the 66% of Cpt Smash.

[Brother Crimson]

Yeah but he does not flat damage 3.

 

Whatever the cost his best ability is still the full reroll to hit, chapter master aura is great, when the cost of such chapter master is appropriate they are really great.

 

His axe and combat profile is a nice addition and not bad but the aura is the reason to take him.

[lash144]

Sure, but he hits better, has an extra attack and wounds ironically better (wounding of 4+ with full reroll is 75%, compared to the 66,67% of wounding on 3+). I calculated it and both do an average dmg of 6.48 wounds to a knight (without things like red rampage)

 

But yeah, this wouldn´t be the main reason to take him, just a nice little benefit that came to my mind.