Army list help

[Vulkan81]

Brothers,

 

On Sunday I participated in my third game (0-2) of 40k this time against the fowl smelling, pox covered, putrid Death Guard.  After 6 turns my 1,500 point army was killed to a man!!!  I'm looking for suggestions on how to make my army more competitive  for future games.  I know it was only my third game but I don't like to lose and I want revenge!!!

 

My army was composed of the following

 

HQ

Captain with power sword and master crafted bolter

Chaplain with jump pack

 

Elites

Company Champion with combat shield and master crafted power sword

 

Troops

3 ten man tactical squads all with plasma guns and heavy bolter

 

Fast attack

10 man assault squad hand flamer, plasma pistol, and power fist

 

Heavy Support

Land raider

Predator with lascannons 

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I want to start giving more of an ass kicking than I have been taking!

 

 

[Pendent]

You have a really good starting force andI'm guessing you're somewhat limited by the models you own but I certainly have some thoughts here-

30 Tactical marines is just too many for 1500 points. Troops exist mostly to be meatshield or to sit on objectives and don't have the greatest killing power for their cost. That's like a third of your army that's just sort of there. I'd probably cut that down to 3 squads of 5. I would also recommend looking into Intercessors as they're pretty solid with our special rules.

 

The Predator is a decent pick for your anti-large, if weirdly more expensive than the vanilla marine version. I'll probably be running one myself from time to time. It's worth looking at lascannon razorbacks as well as they bring more wounds to the table per point spent- you basically get two with lascannons for the price of one Predator with the same. I don't quite understand what you're doing with the Land Raider though (this is the standard version with lascannons, right?). They're better than they've been in a while but I still don't like that they can pretty easily get tied up in combat so you're effectively wasting all those points. Their role these days for Blood Angels is generally to transport Terminators or other scary assault units into combat but I don't see anything that really falls into this category here. If you have it sitting in the backfield shooting you're way better off with another predator or something.

I hate to say it but assault marines are still pretty bad after the codex. If you don't have them painted up yet (or even if you do) I'd run them as Vanguard Veterans for a similar price and an extra attack, not to mention having far more options for their loadout. You'll also get a lot more mileage out of that chaplain if you do so.

 

My advice is to see if you can get hold of the marine half of the Dark Imperium box. Even if you have to buy the whole box with the Death Guard models as well it's still a pretty good deal and will give you a lot more options for your list. I really prefer the Gravis Captain in the backfield to a naked one like you brought, for instance, as he brings some really credible counter-charge threat. Intercessors are great, you get a Primaris Ancient so that you can take our relic banner, Inceptors are AMAZING for us. Some people on here adore Hellblasters. There's a lot to love in the Primaris range, basically.

 

The other half of my advice is that you need something scarier for your assault unit. Vanguard Vets are decent but you want somthing like Sanguinary Guard or Death Company to go with them. There's a lot of debate about which is better but I personally prefer the Sanguinary Guard because they're tougher, have multi-damage weapons and the models are gorgeous.

[Aothaine]

Welcome to 40k! I'm happy you chose Blood Angels as your first army but you are going to learn quickly that space marines are not all they are talked up to be in the stores. They are good. Really good. But they lack certain elements to make them the best without good tactical acumen. Sadly there is not a list out there that will "zero to hero" you right now, and honestly I hope that never happens. 

 

8th Edition is a really good edition to get involved with Warhammer 40k and it allows for so many varied lists to be fun and competitive at least to a local tournament setting. If you are playing against lists that are designed to win big competitions I would honestly ask your opponent to dial it down a bit. That level of competitive play is never good for newer players.

 

Something else I would recommend is to watch batreps. You will learn many really cool strategies from them on how to deploy, setup objectives on the board etc.. A great series to watch is the tactica series published by Table Top Tactics. They are getting a little old right now but most of the information is still very valid. 

 

In terms of your list, at 1500 points I think investing in a Land Raider is a bit over kill. You need more bodies. I would split the tacticals into 5-man units so you have more board coverage and drop the land raider for 2-3 razorbacks. The list is kind of all over the place as well. Something else you can check into is the blood angels competitive thread on our front page. It has a bunch of information to help guide you in list building. 

 

Edit: See I'm of a different thought than Pendant. I love Tacticals and Troops. They are really good. Don't be afraid to assault with them either.

 

Edit Edit: If you do get some Primaris I suggest you replace the Tacticals for them. Tacticals are really good in 5-man units with a las-cannon. Otherwise Primaris are just better in every way with our rules. Also, Inceptors are really good too. Getting a unit of Hellblasters would help too.

 

Edit Edit Edit: My personal list is going to have access to up to 60 Intecessors if needed. But most likely I'll only use them in squads of 5.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Aothaine

[Vulkan81]

Thanks for the advice Pendent and Aothaine!!!!  

 

I do have the Sanguinary guard put together just not painted right now.  My buddy suggested me taking the land raider because there was a possibility that we would be facing a knight titan and it shot my ass off the last time we played.  Currently there are death guard, orks, necrons, space wolves, tyranids, and another space marine army that I can play against.  

 

I am a little limited to what I can field at the moment.  I bought the betrayal at calth and prospero burns box set so I have around 60 tactical marines, my buddy gave me some more for some work I did for him assembling the dark imperium box set so I got another 30 from that.  Currently only have a 5 man assault squad along with 15 terminators, a vindicator and rhino.  

 

I really do not want to lost another game at my club.  I don't want to be known as that guy!

[Aothaine]

Thanks for the advice Pendent and Aothaine!!!!  

 

I really do not want to lost another game at my club.  I don't want to be known as that guy!

 

The best way to win in this game is through experience. Talk to some of the veterans that were around in 7th and played against Tau or Eldar competitive lists. It was a nightmare. I understand that you don't want to lose but you learn so much more from losing in this game. Search through batreps. Look at deployments, army lists and movements and you'll start to get the hang of how to play to win. Again, I highly recommend the tactica series from Table Top Tactics. It is solid advice on how to focus on winning from list building to board setup and deployment and army movement. It helped me a lot!

 

I'm a fluff-head though so I play the game out in my head and try to win but I'm not upset at losing either. I enjoy the stories of the game. :p

[Vulkan81]

Checking it out right now

[Xenith]

Hey, and welcome!

 

The army could do with some tweaking. I think the land raider plus 3 tac squads is everything is excessive at 1500. The land raider really needs an assault unit to transport to get the most from it, which can be sanguinary guard. Land raider+expensive unit becomes the army focus at 1500pts though, so build the rest of the army to support it.

 

I'd drop to 2*10 man tac squads, which should be enough scoring. Make sure their weapons match up, so you have plasma guns and then sergeants with combi plasmas for double the firepower.

 

If you have both box sets, you can make a devastator squad with 3* missile launchers, which is decent fire support.

 

Consider giving your assault squad the melta guns from the calth box. You can always buy more jump packs from GW and convert another assault squad.

 

As above, of your friend collects Feb guard, maybe see if he wants to split a know no fear box, you get some hellblasters and intercessors there, which are useful to future proof your army.

[tedzilla]

I don't think anyone is judging you for losing bud.  You are new, no one really remembers anyways. Just go have fun and try different things out for now. Best of luck!

As for your list, I really like Tac squads but three 10 man squads seems like a lot.  Assault squads are kind of....underwhelming.  I would try and look into units that take advantage of Red Thirst a little bit better.  

Blood Angels are terrors in melee!

[Panzer]

You learn more by losing, yes. But under a condition. You need to reflect on your game and think about what you could've done better and why some things didn't work out as hoped. If you just move on to the next game after a lose you won't learn anything. ;)

[Xenith]

there was a possibility that we would be facing a knight titan and it shot my ass off the last time we played.

Being frank, anyone that drops a knight on the table against someone that's only played one or two games is a bit of a douche canoe, and won't help you enjoy the game. The issue might not be with your army, but with your opponent's. Maybe ask them to bring a friendly force, or omit the big nasties?

Edited December 11, 2017 by Xenith

[Vulkan81]

sfpanzer- I'm for sure learning from my games, my opponent gave me an opportunity to bow out each time but I wanted to finish the game no matter how many troops I lost.  Ended up getting three victory points out of it by the end of the game when on turn 4 I had 0 so maybe it was a moral victory if nothing else.  Funny story about the land raider though.  I did end up and get him locked in close combat with a hellbrute.  I also had his hellbrute surrounded by a 10 man assault squad, my jump pack chaplain, captain, and another 5 man combat squad.  Well his close combat claw killed the land raider, which promptly exploded, which caused his hellbrute to explode which killed my combat squad, captain, chaplain and several assault marines after the dust had settled.  I couldn't do anything but laugh at that point.

 

Xenith- He isn't allowed to bring the knight anymore without giving the person he is playing first a heads up.  A guy in our group did end up killing it with his tyranid army.  His hive tyrant and maleceptor ended up smiting it to death so that was pretty cool to see (I had already been swept from the table by that point).  Overall it was a really fun experience but I do want to last a little longer next time or actually have a unit or two left on the table

[Xenith]

Good to know!

 

It's fun once in a while, but dropping one on someone, especially new, isn't too fun. Better if it's a doubles game, as it seemed to be.

 

Awesome about the Land Raider/Hellbrute, and really funny. It's great when stuff like that happens.

[Vulkan81]

Hey Xenith what about this list 

 

HQ

Captain wiht boltgun and power sword

Chaplain with jump pack

Librarian in terminator armor

 

Troops

5 man close combat souts

5 man sniper scout squad

5 man tactical squad with lascannon

 

Elites

10 man death company

sanguinary guard ancient

sanguinary guard with death masks 

 

Fast attack

10 man assault squad

 

Heavy support

5 man primaris hellblaster squad 

 

I feel like this gives me a little more flexibility than my last list.  What do you think it comes in at 1434 points so far

[swordofmandulis]

Vulkan81, I like your list directly above but now I think you have too many assault units. Drop the assault squad or the death company and get a couple of lascannon razorbacks in there.

 

Also are you going without named characters for a reason as a number of ours are incredible powerful now. Mephiston especially is considerably better than a termie librarian.

Edited December 12, 2017 by swordofmandulis

[Vulkan81]

Unfortunately at this time I don't have any names characters, though I would like to add someone like Dante or Mephiston eventually

I also don't have the new codex yet, going to have to wait till after Christmas to buy it, so basically I am missing out on all the cool stuff out army can bring to the table

[Xenith]

I think you've swung too far the other way - now too few troops and not enough guns - that said, try it out.

 

The foot captain and librarian seem out of place - what units will they be supporting?

 

At 1500 I'd avoid spending too much on characters. One heavy combat character with a way to get into combat (jump pack on the captain?) And one support character (chaplain, Libby, or standard bearer) should do it.

 

Unless you have a favourite relic, the standard of sacrifice will be cool on the ancient. Veritas vitae is good if you plan on using stratagems a lot.

 

Building an army I'd probably start with:

 

Captain, jump pack, cool weapons

 

10 tactical marines, missile launcher, plasma gun, combi plasma, power sword, rhino, extra storm bolter

 

10 assault scouts

 

10 assault marines,2 melta guns, power sword/fist, plasma/infernus pistol

 

5 - 10 death co. Jump packs. 2 power swords, 1 fist per 5 guys

 

5 - 10 San guard, 1 fist per 5, rest with swords.

 

5 hellblasters

 

Other shooty unit.

 

Then add in whatever else you need or want.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Vulkan81]

Xenith you're thoughts are really helpful!!!!  I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me and helping me to be a better player!