Chaos Undivided

[Marshal Rohr]

During ADB's AMA, a redditor posted something about chaos undivided being removed from the lore. Does anyone have any idea what he's talking about? All my google searching led my to /tg/ where they offered no relevant quotes or neu-lore. Is it another 4chan-meme or a real thing I've missed.

[Charlo]

During ADB's AMA, a redditor posted something about chaos undivided being removed from the lore. Does anyone have any idea what he's talking about? All my google searching led my to /tg/ where they offered no relevant quotes or neu-lore. Is it another 4chan-meme or a real thing I've missed.

 

It's very much alive in the lore, you just need to look harder for it.

 

Ruinstorm had a particularly powerful undivided Daemon as Sanguinius' main foe.

 

Bel'akor exists.

 

Abaddon also exists.

 

What people tend to mean more is that there is no direct reference to it in models as gods-specific are easier to market and make unique!

[Marshal Rohr]

 

During ADB's AMA, a redditor posted something about chaos undivided being removed from the lore. Does anyone have any idea what he's talking about? All my google searching led my to /tg/ where they offered no relevant quotes or neu-lore. Is it another 4chan-meme or a real thing I've missed.

 

It's very much alive in the lore, you just need to look harder for it.

 

Ruinstorm had a particularly powerful undivided Daemon as Sanguinius' main foe.

 

Bel'akor exists.

 

Abaddon also exists.

 

What people tend to mean more is that there is no direct reference to it in models as gods-specific are easier to market and make unique!

 

 

See, that's what I was thinking. I just couldn't find any references that weren't old. 

[totgeboren]

Chaos Undivided was definitely being phased out from the 4th/5ed codex. The background and rules has for many years basically ignored CU as an option. You were either marked or not marked (compared to the 3.5 codex where MoCU was a proper option in its own right).
With the Traitor Legions supplement in 7th and the 8ed Codex CU was been returned somewhat, even is it still treated as an option on the way to a specific dedication. Even the only CU stratagem is simply that you can give your unmarked squad a mark (at the cost of a CP, instead of giving your squad a mark for free at the start)!

So it has been returned, but the game is still designed around everything having a mark, which is a bit of a pity for those of us who really like the idea of Chaos Undivided. There are distinct advantages to giving your squads marks and it doesn't cost anything, so CU in the form of no specific mark is still just playing with a handicap.

Edited December 11, 2017 by totgeboren

[Scribe]

Its the exception, not the rule. It used to be more of a thing, but as noted in the AMA, after 3.5 (blessed as it is) there was an effort to make it so you had to be aligned. The unaliged 'undivided' examples are exceptional to the point of being near unique.

 

Bel'akor, Abaddon.

 

I wasnt big on it as a change myself, but it's whatever.

[Marshal Rohr]

Is that an effort to make the Undivided Word Bearers more unique? Considering their major role as bringing chaos out of ‘retirement’. Wouldn’t it make sense they are favored by all four? I don’t particularly see the Black Legion or Iron Warriors as undivided, so it makes sense to me to see necessary allegiances among their ranks.

[Urriak Urruk]

I think what ADB meant is that Chaos Undivided is obsolete only in the meaning of "drawing from the powers of all four gods" is obsolete, with some exceptions (Abaddon, Lorgar).

 

Alpha Legion, Night Lords, and Word Bearers often do not pledge allegiance to one specific god, but dance on the fine lines between them. But they also struggle to harness power from Chaos in general, or risk falling into the thrall of one specific god.

 

Abaddon is obviously the exception, and Lorgar as well (though he doesn't really do anything right now). Perturabo doesn't really do much either but is more along the lines of "between the gods" rather than "represents all of them."

 

So I think Chaos Undivided still exists, it just doesn't mean "The power of all the gods," it really means "The power of none of them."

[Mileposter]

I've always seen 'Undevided' as a concept, not a rule. Chaos Undivided never made sense to me as "Not having a Mark" or "Having a Mark of Undivided" - but rather, as the concept of "These guys with a Mark of Khorne are working with the Mark of Nurgle are working with..."

 

You can show that you are favored by all four Gods by playing all four Gods.

[Vesper]

Ruinstorm had a particularly powerful undivided Daemon as Sanguinius' main foe.

Wut ?

 

I doubt Perturabo and Lorgar still are Daemons Primarchs of Chaos Undivided. They are probably very well aligned with a god, we simply don't know which one yet. I think we have clues about Perturabo being a little nurgly chap.

 

So, please AD-B, write that meeting between Lorgar and Abaddon.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Vesper

[Scribe]

Is that an effort to make the Undivided Word Bearers more unique? Considering their major role as bringing chaos out of ‘retirement’. Wouldn’t it make sense they are favored by all four? I don’t particularly see the Black Legion or Iron Warriors as undivided, so it makes sense to me to see necessary allegiances among their ranks.

 

No, I think all of those would now be Unaligned, at least as a high level view.

 

There was a book with Iron Warriors, I forget it now as it was forgettable...that had some Marines clearly leaning towards some of the Gods. We have ADB's Night Lords, who had Tzeentch, Slaanesh, and Khorne 'marked' if not outright worshipers. 

 

The nuance here is that sometimes a person does not choose a god, they are chosen.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

Ruinstorm had a particularly powerful undivided Daemon as Sanguinius' main foe.

Wut ?

 

I doubt Perturabo and Lorgar still are Daemons Primarchs of Chaos Undivided. They are probably very well aligned with a god, we simply don't know which one yet. I think we have clues about Perturabo being a little nurgly chap.

 

So, please AD-B, write that meeting between Lorgar and Abaddon.

 

 

 

It doesn't make sense for Lorgar to go from being so militantly undivided in the Heresy to siding with a god. As I mentioned earlier, I would be perfectly happy with Lorgar being the only undivided Primarch, but mostly because of the way I view the Word Bearers in my headcanon. Perturabo siding with a god makes little sense, but he is also the least likely Chaos Primarch that isn't dead to be brought back into the Neu-Lore meta-plot. Lorgar is arguably the as knowledgeable about the true nature of the pantheon as a non-supernatural entity could've been prior to his ascension, so if he did finally choose one God it kind of takes away from his character. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Marshal Rohr

[Vesper]

 

 

Ruinstorm had a particularly powerful undivided Daemon as Sanguinius' main foe.

Wut ?

 

I doubt Perturabo and Lorgar still are Daemons Primarchs of Chaos Undivided. They are probably very well aligned with a god, we simply don't know which one yet. I think we have clues about Perturabo being a little nurgly chap.

 

So, please AD-B, write that meeting between Lorgar and Abaddon.

 

 

 

It doesn't make sense for Lorgar to go from being so militantly undivided in the Heresy to siding with a god. As I mentioned earlier, I would be perfectly happy with Lorgar being the only undivided Primarch, but mostly because of the way I view the Word Bearers in my headcanon. Perturabo siding with a god makes little sense, but he is also the least likely Chaos Primarch that isn't dead to be brought back into the Neu-Lore meta-plot. Lorgar is arguably the as knowledgeable about the true nature of the pantheon as a non-supernatural entity could've been prior to his ascension, so if he did finally choose one God it kind of takes away from his character. 

 

Becoming a Daemon Primarch isn't necessarily a choice. And you don't necessarily pick a god. Sometimes, a god picks you.

Betrayer illustrated those facts.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

Ruinstorm had a particularly powerful undivided Daemon as Sanguinius' main foe.

Wut ?

 

I doubt Perturabo and Lorgar still are Daemons Primarchs of Chaos Undivided. They are probably very well aligned with a god, we simply don't know which one yet. I think we have clues about Perturabo being a little nurgly chap.

 

So, please AD-B, write that meeting between Lorgar and Abaddon.

 

 

 

It doesn't make sense for Lorgar to go from being so militantly undivided in the Heresy to siding with a god. As I mentioned earlier, I would be perfectly happy with Lorgar being the only undivided Primarch, but mostly because of the way I view the Word Bearers in my headcanon. Perturabo siding with a god makes little sense, but he is also the least likely Chaos Primarch that isn't dead to be brought back into the Neu-Lore meta-plot. Lorgar is arguably the as knowledgeable about the true nature of the pantheon as a non-supernatural entity could've been prior to his ascension, so if he did finally choose one God it kind of takes away from his character. 

 

Becoming a Daemon Primarch isn't necessarily a choice. And you don't necessarily pick a god. Sometimes, a god picks you.

Betrayer illustrated those facts.

 

 

I get that, but I'm speaking about the merits narratively. Lorgar is a stronger character as the guy who left the cave, you know? The Gabriel of the Pantheon. I'm not adovcating all Word Bearers be incapable of being aligned, but Lorgar being a vessel of the four seems like a fitting reward for basically getting their ball rolling against the Emperor. Perturabo, sure, I could see him not wanting to be chosen by a god, but ending up that way. There just aren't any God's I'd like for him, though it would be interesting if he's chosen by Slaanesh after the Angel Exterminatus arc. 

[Urriak Urruk]

Lorgar is definitely Undivided. His head has literally become the logo of undivided. He's probably the only character other than Be'lakor that makes the most sense as Undivided.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/e/ee/Lorgar_portrait.jpg

 

I also think Perty's Undivided too, but more in an Abaddon kind of way.

 

EDIT: You know, it would be interesting if Perty/Lorgar are capable of switching back and forth. Like the gods want them completed devoted to them, but are constantly competing for these two Primarchs loyalty (instead of the other way around).

Edited December 11, 2017 by Urriak Urruk

[Marshal Rohr]

Lorgar is definitely Undivided. His head has literally become the logo of undivided. He's probably the only character other than Be'lakor that makes the most sense as Undivided.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/e/ee/Lorgar_portrait.jpg

 

I also think Perty's Undivided too, but more in an Abaddon kind of way.

 

I'd seen that art, I was just unsure if something had changed. That piece is awesome, and I hope still relevant. 

[Urriak Urruk]

 

Lorgar is definitely Undivided. His head has literally become the logo of undivided. He's probably the only character other than Be'lakor that makes the most sense as Undivided.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/e/ee/Lorgar_portrait.jpg

 

I also think Perty's Undivided too, but more in an Abaddon kind of way.

 

I'd seen that art, I was just unsure if something had changed. That piece is awesome, and I hope still relevant. 

 

 

I think that (and this) are from the card game, so could totally get retconned.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/0/04/Lorgar.jpg

[Vesper]

 

 

 

 

Ruinstorm had a particularly powerful undivided Daemon as Sanguinius' main foe.

Wut ?

 

I doubt Perturabo and Lorgar still are Daemons Primarchs of Chaos Undivided. They are probably very well aligned with a god, we simply don't know which one yet. I think we have clues about Perturabo being a little nurgly chap.

 

So, please AD-B, write that meeting between Lorgar and Abaddon.

 

 

 

It doesn't make sense for Lorgar to go from being so militantly undivided in the Heresy to siding with a god. As I mentioned earlier, I would be perfectly happy with Lorgar being the only undivided Primarch, but mostly because of the way I view the Word Bearers in my headcanon. Perturabo siding with a god makes little sense, but he is also the least likely Chaos Primarch that isn't dead to be brought back into the Neu-Lore meta-plot. Lorgar is arguably the as knowledgeable about the true nature of the pantheon as a non-supernatural entity could've been prior to his ascension, so if he did finally choose one God it kind of takes away from his character. 

 

Becoming a Daemon Primarch isn't necessarily a choice. And you don't necessarily pick a god. Sometimes, a god picks you.

Betrayer illustrated those facts.

 

 

I get that, but I'm speaking about the merits narratively. Lorgar is a stronger character as the guy who left the cave, you know? The Gabriel of the Pantheon. I'm not adovcating all Word Bearers be incapable of being aligned, but Lorgar being a vessel of the four seems like a fitting reward for basically getting their ball rolling against the Emperor. Perturabo, sure, I could see him not wanting to be chosen by a god, but ending up that way. There just aren't any God's I'd like for him, though it would be interesting if he's chosen by Slaanesh after the Angel Exterminatus arc.

I'd say Tzeentch for Lorgar.

That subtle mix of "Yeah, I told you the truth, and now you're damned to be a pawn on my chessboard". It goes well with Lorgar wishing to remain in seclution for an eternity. The quest of Lorgar is one about seeking the truth, enlightement, and hope. That's so Tzeentchy even Magnus may be jealous.

 

And Perturabo certainly couldn't be in any shape or form like Abaddon in his relation to Chaos since he's a Daemon Primarch.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Vesper

[Urriak Urruk]

I think Primarchs have sufficiently powerful souls/willpower to be able to dance the fine line between gods.

 

In fantasy/AoS the prime example of this is Archaon. In 40k there is Be'lakor, Madail, and Furies.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/8/89/Madail.jpg/420px-Madail.jpg

Madail, from Ruinstorm.

[Vesper]

I think Primarchs have sufficiently powerful souls/willpower to be able to dance the fine line between gods.

 

In fantasy/AoS the prime example of this is Archaon. In 40k there is Be'lakor, Madail, and Furies.

Archaon is a daemon prince now ? Last time I've read anything about him, he's like a carbon copy of Abaddon in a fantasy setting. Some extracts were even borderline paraphrasing stuff about Abaddon.

 

The Primarchs "ascension" is the same as any other creature becoming a daemon prince. And since we know no other daemon prince of Chaos Undivided was ever made since Bel'akor, we know there can't be any undivided Chaos Primarch. Becoming a daemon prince / primarch is nothing but merging with the essence of a perticular god, so they necessarily are aligned and invested in the Great Game.

 

Didn't know about Madail, but apparently he's a Daemon, not an ascended mortal, so I suppose Furies_rule of exception = cool applies there, even though I heard Damnation of Pythos wasn't good nor cool at all.

[Urriak Urruk]

 

I think Primarchs have sufficiently powerful souls/willpower to be able to dance the fine line between gods.

 

In fantasy/AoS the prime example of this is Archaon. In 40k there is Be'lakor, Madail, and Furies.

Archaon is a daemon prince now ? Last time I've read anything about him, he's like a carbon copy of Abaddon in a fantasy setting. Some extracts were even borderline paraphrasing stuff about Abaddon.

 

The Primarchs "ascension" is the same as any other creature becoming a daemon prince. And since we know no other daemon prince of Chaos Undivided was ever made since Bel'akor, we know there can't be any undivided Chaos Primarch. Becoming a daemon prince / primarch is nothing but merging with the essence of a perticular god, so they necessarily are aligned and invested in the Great Game.

 

Didn't know about Madail, but apparently he's a Daemon, not an ascended mortal, so I suppose Furies_rule of exception = cool applies there, even though I heard Damnation of Pythos wasn't good nor cool at all.

 

 

The funny thing is that although fluff states that Be'lakor is the only Daemon Prince of Undivided, it also hints pretty strongly that both Lorgar and Perturabo are too. So you can't just say "this is a fact, therefore they can't be that," the fluff is contradictory all the time.

 

I mean, ADB's answer to this question is pretty ambiguous for that reason, and specifically mentions how Lorgar is unique.

 

In my mind, it makes zero sense for Lorgar to be god specific. Perturabo isn't so locked in, but at the same time he too has not shown any inclination to a specific god.

 

I definitely don't want Chaos Undivided Princes to return in general, but allowing only Be'lakor, Lorgar and Perturabo to have that title is fine, they are all sufficiently unique and powerful.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

I think Primarchs have sufficiently powerful souls/willpower to be able to dance the fine line between gods.

 

In fantasy/AoS the prime example of this is Archaon. In 40k there is Be'lakor, Madail, and Furies.

Archaon is a daemon prince now ? Last time I've read anything about him, he's like a carbon copy of Abaddon in a fantasy setting. Some extracts were even borderline paraphrasing stuff about Abaddon.

 

The Primarchs "ascension" is the same as any other creature becoming a daemon prince. And since we know no other daemon prince of Chaos Undivided was ever made since Bel'akor, we know there can't be any undivided Chaos Primarch. Becoming a daemon prince / primarch is nothing but merging with the essence of a perticular god, so they necessarily are aligned and invested in the Great Game.

 

Didn't know about Madail, but apparently he's a Daemon, not an ascended mortal, so I suppose Furies_rule of exception = cool applies there, even though I heard Damnation of Pythos wasn't good nor cool at all.

 

 

The funny thing is that although fluff states that Be'lakor is the only Daemon Prince of Undivided, it also hints pretty strongly that both Lorgar and Perturabo are too. So you can't just say "this is a fact, therefore they can't be that," the fluff is contradictory all the time.

 

I mean, ADB's answer to this question is pretty ambiguous for that reason, and specifically mentions how Lorgar is unique.

 

In my mind, it makes zero sense for Lorgar to be god specific. Perturabo isn't so locked in, but at the same time he too has not shown any inclination to a specific god.

 

I definitely don't want Chaos Undivided Princes to return in general, but allowing only Be'lakor, Lorgar and Perturabo to have that title is fine, they are all sufficiently unique and powerful.

 

 

Do you have a copy of ADB's answers? Maybe we could get all of them collated into a thread for future reference. 

[totgeboren]

Is that an effort to make the Undivided Word Bearers more unique? Considering their major role as bringing chaos out of ‘retirement’. Wouldn’t it make sense they are favored by all four? I don’t particularly see the Black Legion or Iron Warriors as undivided, so it makes sense to me to see necessary allegiances among their ranks.

I guess background-wise the WB really had their own version of "Chaos Undivided" compared to the other unmarked legions, and the removal of Chaos Undivided hit them harder than any of the other legions.

One of the defining traits of the WB was their fanatical and theologically organized dedication to all the four powers, which is quite different to the IW dismissal of the powers as objects of worship, instead using them more as tools (also Chaos Undivided), or the way the BL dedicated themselves to all the powers, but on a more on individual level (also Undivided, but instead having different squads with different marks).

 

Now the WB have basically turned into red BL as far as representing their core theme on the tabletop is concerned, which is a pity (even though I love the BL too, it just sucks a bit having two identical armies).

At least I consider their religious doctrines and dedication to be the central theme of the legion, more so than any preferred tactics like using massed cultists waves or daemon summoning ever was.

Edited December 11, 2017 by totgeboren

[Urriak Urruk]

ADB's answers are on reddit, here; https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/7igatt/im_aaron_dembskibowden_ask_me_anything/

 

Some of my friends keep trying to insist that Lorgar and Perturabo can't be Daemon Princes/Primarchs of Chaos Undivided. Instead they insist that Belakor is the only Daemon Prince of Chaos undivided, and insists that Lorgar is a Daemon Primarch of Tzeentch, and Perturarbo is one of possibly Nurgle. I don't think that's the case, but can't quite disprove the latter. Care to weigh in on the subject? Should Chaos Undivided Daemon Princes be unique to Belakor?

 

 

Hoo, boy. This is a tough one, because of, well... the whole Berenstain/Berenstein Bears thing. Y'know, the Mandela Effect, etc. Or at least sort of, but not quite.

A lot of us came into the hobby in 3rd Edition, and the Chaos Codex of 3.5 was heralded because it gave Legion rules (albeit brief and shallow ones) and a squillion options for Chaos characters. It's well regarded, which is awesome, but it's practically drenched in rose-tinted fan-drool, which is significantly less helpful and not remotely objective. (Andy Chambers' Codex Chaos, the 2nd Edition bad boy, was the Chaos Codex to rival all others, lore-wise. But I digress.)

But a lot of us came into the setting when Chaos Undivided meant "Chaos Undecided" as the tedious meme goes, and we think that things like Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided were "the way it was" and anything since then has changed. That's... debatable. Chaos Undivided, as a concept of several gods uniting for a brief time to make :cuss Go Down, is a relatively rare thing. It's why Be'lakor is special. It's why Abaddon is a big deal. It's the Mark of Chaos Ascendant. That's not just some honour badge or a banner you carry, it's the warp itself crying out to do your merest bidding. Horus didn't even have the Mark of Chaos Ascendant. That's how rare it is.

So the short answer is that it wasn't there, then removed. It was put in, then taken out, but the massive influx of fans when it was a thing means they will always see its absence as a change.

You get this a lot in the IP, honestly. I've had several conversations that go like this:

"I want to do X."

"You can't, that's wrong, the lore doesn't go like that."

"But it says in these published sources that I'm right. I just want to carry on X and Y and Z."

"Yeah, but they were wrong. They were wrong at the time, too. We never directly say they were wrong, we just never mention them again, and eventually counter them in later publications."

"But the readers think these things are true."

"Sure. But eventually, they won't."

IP work is a whole... thing. I love it, but it has its contradictions. For most of its life, 40K couldn't have Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided. I've been in meetings and lore chats where it was explained to me. Will it flip back? I don't know. I don't think so, and I hope not, as I think it cheapens the lore a little to have it work that way. It's not just a power-up, and it's supposed to be incredibly rare.

But I also acknowledge the difficulty of stuff like Lorgar, and the appropriateness of him getting a watered-down version of Abaddon's mark, so... Who knows where it'll go?

[Marshal Rohr]

ADB's answers are on reddit, here; https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/7igatt/im_aaron_dembskibowden_ask_me_anything/

 

Some of my friends keep trying to insist that Lorgar and Perturabo can't be Daemon Princes/Primarchs of Chaos Undivided. Instead they insist that Belakor is the only Daemon Prince of Chaos undivided, and insists that Lorgar is a Daemon Primarch of Tzeentch, and Perturarbo is one of possibly Nurgle. I don't think that's the case, but can't quite disprove the latter. Care to weigh in on the subject? Should Chaos Undivided Daemon Princes be unique to Belakor?

 

 

Hoo, boy. This is a tough one, because of, well... the whole Berenstain/Berenstein Bears thing. Y'know, the Mandela Effect, etc. Or at least sort of, but not quite.

A lot of us came into the hobby in 3rd Edition, and the Chaos Codex of 3.5 was heralded because it gave Legion rules (albeit brief and shallow ones) and a squillion options for Chaos characters. It's well regarded, which is awesome, but it's practically drenched in rose-tinted fan-drool, which is significantly less helpful and not remotely objective. (Andy Chambers' Codex Chaos, the 2nd Edition bad boy, was the Chaos Codex to rival all others, lore-wise. But I digress.)

But a lot of us came into the setting when Chaos Undivided meant "Chaos Undecided" as the tedious meme goes, and we think that things like Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided were "the way it was" and anything since then has changed. That's... debatable. Chaos Undivided, as a concept of several gods uniting for a brief time to make Go Down, is a relatively rare thing. It's why Be'lakor is special. It's why Abaddon is a big deal. It's the Mark of Chaos Ascendant. That's not just some honour badge or a banner you carry, it's the warp itself crying out to do your merest bidding. Horus didn't even have the Mark of Chaos Ascendant. That's how rare it is.

So the short answer is that it wasn't there, then removed. It was put in, then taken out, but the massive influx of fans when it was a thing means they will always see its absence as a change.

You get this a lot in the IP, honestly. I've had several conversations that go like this:

"I want to do X."

"You can't, that's wrong, the lore doesn't go like that."

"But it says in these published sources that I'm right. I just want to carry on X and Y and Z."

"Yeah, but they were wrong. They were wrong at the time, too. We never directly say they were wrong, we just never mention them again, and eventually counter them in later publications."

"But the readers think these things are true."

"Sure. But eventually, they won't."

IP work is a whole... thing. I love it, but it has its contradictions. For most of its life, 40K couldn't have Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided. I've been in meetings and lore chats where it was explained to me. Will it flip back? I don't know. I don't think so, and I hope not, as I think it cheapens the lore a little to have it work that way. It's not just a power-up, and it's supposed to be incredibly rare.

But I also acknowledge the difficulty of stuff like Lorgar, and the appropriateness of him getting a watered-down version of Abaddon's mark, so... Who knows where it'll go?

 

You, sir, are a legend. 

[Lexington]

I've never particularly understood "undivided" Chaos as a concept that's present in the lore. Chaos can be worshipped as a pantheon, sure, and one doesn't need to "give" oneself to any particular Power - tho see below for more thoughts on that - but I don't think anyone realistically worships "Chaos Undivided."  Chaos isn't even something we understand, and arguably isn't something that humans could understand. It's a wild, writhing, unending sea of a universe. For all we know, the Gods and Daemons we're so familiar with might well just be the barest, tiniest fraction of its existence. We certainly have a lot of hints that they're not the whole thing, though I doubt we'd ever see much more behind that particular curtain. Which, hey, fine. The possibility and sense of scale that peek gives is more important than exhaustively cataloging it.

 

That aside, uh, aside, I think what A D-B is talking about is just the basic weirdness of lore development that 40K's gone through in the past twenty-odd years. 3rd Edition was a big deal for the game and its lore, the end could be called its formative phase, and just as many of the ideas from that era ended up getting chucked out as were kept and melded into the current background. A lot of those are the sort of thing that obviously didn't work and weren't spoken of again, but Chaos Undivided is one of those that was big and pervasive enough that it still causes some problems. In 3rd, you had Chaos Undivided as something that actually granted a mark, had Daemon Princes and even Daemons (hi, Furies!), and was generally assumed, from what I remember, to be some sort of Chaotic meta-consciousness. It's an idea that never fit right, I'd say. The Great Powers just doesn't work in concert very often, owing to reasons that range from natural hostilities to the fact that pan-dimensional beings who only occasionally dabble in linear time just don't do well with committee-based decisions. When it went away, I was pleased, but it left some holes.

 

It also didn't help that the Index Astartes articles and 3.5 Chaos Codex - landmarks that a lot of players still define their 40K experience from - were big on the idea of "non-Chaotic" Chaos Legions. The Iron Warrior, Night Lords and Alpha Legion were all portrayed as, at best, being incidentally involved in Chaos, so Undivided became a big deal for a lot of players. Maybe even more importantly, Perturabo and Lorgar - neither of whom had been addressed in m41 - were both risen to Daemon Prince status without a clear patron, something that's a seemingly unexplained phenomenon in today's background. I don't know if GW will ever get around to explaining it, or if they even much care, but it's a notable hole in the lore, and one a lot of people notice.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Lexington