Competitive dark angels ideas

[Madmonkeyman]

So I think that most of the dark angels codex seems a bit under powered but there are a few very strong elements that make me very excited to make a new dark angels list. I've been running a crazy azrael double fire raptor list so far with the index and could do with a change. My thoughts are very much aimed at competitive play.

 

Tallon masters/ sable claw as characters is just amazing. This will really stop them being alpha striked. Put a couple of celexus in your list and you are giving a gun line a real problem. They have a crazy amount of Dakka, are good in combat and can take relics . The power sword relic and the -1 one to hit are clear winners . You can use the only in death does duty end to shoot again if they die for 2 cp !

That is yanari levels of filth. That's before you even consider the buffs they get give out. Only down side is that they are a bit expensive

 

Dark tallons : if they really are 140 Pts then they are amazing. They were competive before ... now just great.

 

Scouts self buffing is great, flakk missle, heavy bolter stratagem is more reliable as re roll ones .

 

Plasma is obviously good but the units are fragile. Black knights seem better over hellblasters as they can have a 4++ move fast and are ok in combat and keep up with Sam / dark shroud/ tallon master for ultra buffs. Plasma devs could also be really good and don't really need buffing.

 

Speed of the raven is cool on samuel/ black knights and will catch people off guard. So if your list has multiple close

Combat threats - Celestine / eversors then the opponent could easily be put in the back foot.

 

Fall back and shoot stratagem: too expensive for normal use but will be Occasionally useful.

 

The dark shroud: clearly an auto include- no longer needs azrael ( if that was still even a thing ) as it can just advance for that sweet 4++

 

Data link stratagem: could be good with all this minus to hit units (eldar). We will have so many speeders in the lists that it could be easily utilised . Auto hits with whirlwinds are good. Shame the whirlwind isn't better or you are not allowed to take the amazing FW ones .

 

What does anyone else think? I was disappointed at first but I think there is some very strong combos in this codex. Has any one else come up with anything horrible

Edited December 11, 2017 by Madmonkeyman

[Madmonkeyman]

The psychic powers are also good. Librarians on a bike are clearly the way forward as the can move 20 . Aversion still amazing / mindwipe harder to pull off but also good at debuffing your opponents big shiny tank. The reroll hits and wounds in combat could be good on black knights / Sam.

[Frater Cornelius]

I thought Azzy’s 4++ doesn’t affect tanks anymore? That would make the Raptor list not what it was.

 

As for high end cheesy stuff. Well, I hate to say it, but Ravenwing once again reign supreme. Big units of Black Knights with character support, Dark Shrouds and maybe some fire support, if at all necessary.

[Orkinstein]

dark talon is 140 plus two hurricane bolters. So 160

[Orkinstein]

auto hit whirlwind will be interesting... add a Hunter Killer missile on it!

[TheBoosch]

I’ve been thinking of a way to run a Dark Talon/Dark shroud star with Sammy and Talonmaster.

 

The Talons will be -2 to hit while rerolling hits and 1s to wound, the characters have the same rerolls and can’t be targeted, and you always advance the shroud for the 4++.

 

Might just be too expensive to actually pull off. Any thoughts? A 3 Dark Talon star would be just over 1000 points.

Edited December 12, 2017 by TheBoosch

[Master Sheol]

I’ve been thinking of a way to run a Dark Talon/Dark shroud star with Sammy and Talonmaster.

 

The Talons will be -2 to hit while rerolling hits and 1s to wound, the characters have the same rerolls and can’t be targeted, and you always advance the shroud for the 4++.

 

Might just be too expensive to actually pull off. Any thoughts? A 3 Dark Talon star would be just over 1000 points.

It depends on how much points you play cause with the new "Boots on the Ground" time if you have 1000 points of flyers and let's say 500 points on the Ground your opponent will ignore the flyers and concentrate all His firepower on the Ground units

At 2000 points 1000 points of flyers becone more interesting but IMHO 1000 of flyers are more suited on a 2500+ points list

[Madmonkeyman]

I thought Azzy’s 4++ doesn’t affect tanks anymore? That would make the Raptor list not what it was.

 

As for high end cheesy stuff. Well, I hate to say it, but Ravenwing once again reign supreme. Big units of Black Knights with character support, Dark Shrouds and maybe some fire support, if at all necessary.

Yeh the azrael nerf killed my fire raptor list. Shame as the fire raptor when down in points but it needs it 4++.

auto hit whirlwind will be interesting... add a Hunter Killer missile on it!

That's a good idea about hunter killers in whirlwinds

[Madmonkeyman]

I’ve been thinking of a way to run a Dark Talon/Dark shroud star with Sammy and Talonmaster.

 

The Talons will be -2 to hit while rerolling hits and 1s to wound, the characters have the same rerolls and can’t be targeted, and you always advance the shroud for the 4++.

 

Might just be too expensive to actually pull off. Any thoughts? A 3 Dark Talon star would be just over 1000 points.

[Madmonkeyman]

-2 to hit is great and really helps with not getting alpha striked. Not sure if you will

Keep the dark tallons together through. They are very short range - 12 inch rapid fire / fly over stuff to use the bomb. So to keep everything in 6 inch would be hard and prob gets your tallon masters etc too close to the enemy. Obviously depends on the enemy etc.

 

2 dark tallons would easily be viable in 2000 points

Edited December 12, 2017 by Madmonkeyman

[Orkinstein]

-2 to hit is great and really helps with not getting alpha striked. Not sure if you will

Keep the dark tallons together through. They are very short range - 12 inch rapid fire / fly over stuff to use the bomb. So to keep everything in 6 inch would be hard and prob gets your tallon masters etc too close to the enemy. Obviously depends on the enemy etc.

 

2 dark tallons would easily be viable in 2000 points

 

I think -2 to hit is quite difficult to keep. If you don't switch to hover, it is quite hard for darkshroud to follow them. If you hover, you will lose -2 to -1... 

[Madmonkeyman]

You can keep it for a couple of turns. Agree though that very hard for he whole game. You will be advancing the shroud anyway for a 4++. Providing that you start the flyers behind the speeder should be ok for first 2 turns

[Raychu]

do not forget about Sammy giving the possibility to reroll advances (ok useless for RW) but also reroll charges.

 

imagine then having sammy and a bunch of dark knights eventually a talon master going for the charge with the strategem which gives the possibility to advance, shoot & charge. this gets nice.

plus, the reroll charges works for the whole dark angels army. so why not teleport some DW knights in this 6inchs aura of reroll? this could mean teleport them next to sammy after he moved... potentially first turn charge with knights. or teleport normal shooty terminators, use the DW assault stratagem, sweeten a unit, teleport the knights a bit closer to the back units and charge.

 

I really think sammy is the must have as the RW is still powerfull and he gives those nice little rerolls (1s to hit, charges, advances).

[hhhdan]

My current idea is having Sammael with 2 talon masters, 2 scout bike squads, a dropping inceptor squad full of plasma

And then some allies, blood angels death company with librarian, lemartes and couple of scouts units. And then culexus assassin and acolytes to protect the character firebase. 

 

Inceptors are pretty good now with the points drop and getting reroll 1s to hit and wound buffs from moving up Sam and Talonmasters and a +1 damage strat will make them even better. Plus you can hold them until you need them.

 

Sam and talonmasters clear the chaff and then death company drop and do their thing with descent of angels and honour the chapter.

 

Scouts are there to block enemy deployment/deep strikes. Culexus and acolytes provide shield for characters too.

 

Not quite sure on scout bikers, but they have a lot of chaff clearing as well...

(getting reroll 1s to hit and wound buffs from moving up Sam and Talonmasters and a +1 damage strat). I

[SnakeChisler]

Just entered a comp in our area in Feb and soup lists loose buffs below their common keyword only exception or addition is all 1 chaos god, not entered anything in 7th apart from the odd club thing.

 

Talking to the organizer its something he picked up from another comp

 

Anyways not something I intend to do, I've already had a couple of outings with inceptors since Chapter approved dropped and a 3 damage plasma unit with overheat stratagem with re-roll 1's should take out T8 Armour even just bumping to 2 damage is already having a considerable effect.

 

I've been pretty gung ho with my overcharges of late, a double HQ speeder list is going to be mouthwatering.

 

I also want to put in a vote for Intecesors & reivers as well as the return of the Psyker biker

 

If you drop pod Azreal near your Inceptors with Ezekiel you can get all sorts of stuff going using a tac squad to bubble against smite spam etc..

[Madmonkeyman]

So the tallon master / sableclaw / dark tallon are excellent chaff clearing but I'm having a hard time thinking of anti tank options.

 

Plasma seems like the choice given we are dark angels. Black knights seem ok but maybe not durable

For their points but bit out more damage than hellblasters are are more mobile.

 

The only other thing I can think of is a fire raptor ( cos I have one lying around ) . The primaris jump pack plasma troops are way too expensive I think

[SnakeChisler]

I've got some of the jump pack primaris and on 1St glance your thinking wow that's pricey but thier damage output is phenomenal.

 

The latest round of codex have quite a few -1 to hit outside of 12" type buffs in them which these guys get round and with the new stratagem buff you'll need 2 per T7 tank or all 3 for something like a Land Raider, 5 shots through from a possible max of 18 is giving you 15 damage if someone is running a couple of Las preds at T7 your conversion rate is going to be in the 7/8 range.

 

Couple the plasma guys with the Hb versions for chaff clearing and your insertion strike is gonna hit like a ton of bricks easily clearing away more points than you invest.

 

Like anything thier going to need backup but as a lighting strike warfare tactic coupled with ravenwing thier going to be really effective.

[Madmonkeyman]

How many points are the plasma jump pack guys . Do they get 2d3 shots a guy

I do like the idea you can keep them in reserve. Black knights may just get wiped out turn 1

[SnakeChisler]

Just under 180 for 3 I think the ideal squad size for an alpha strike I would have thought will be 4 though gives you a chance of really putting the hurt on the very big stuff.

 

There 18" range assault D3 each guy has 2

 

Don't rely on them to last more than a turn though if your deploying them forward as after the drop your opponent will fire his entire army at them to make sure they don't get to fire again which is useful coz there not firing at other stuff which is why it may well be worth drop podding Azreal & having a librarian & the darkshroud in the vicinity to Nerf your opponents shooting.

 

How they survive will be a lot down to line of sight blocking and your opponent though the Hail Mary drop should pay back more than it costs.

 

There a bit of a utility knife the sheer volume of shots with pimped damage is going grind down even the biggest models

[Madmonkeyman]

Think I will try a few games with them. They look like fun. Could be very good. So 5 costs the same as 6 black knights . So they do 10d3 shots instead of 12 . That's crazy Edited December 13, 2017 by Madmonkeyman

[Trunkello]

Think I will try a few games with them. They look like fun. Could be very good. So 5 costs the same as 6 black knights . So they do 10d3 shots instead of 12 . That's crazy

6 black knights are 300 but 5 inceptors are only 300 with assault bolters. With plasmas they are 430. Also black knights gona be cheaper so you could almost field 9 black knights from that 430 points. And thats fix 18 shots with plasma talons. Also they can fight with melee weapons not bumping into the enemy with their armor :D

[march10k]

I really doubt that the dakshroud will get much use out of the 4++ outside of a pure ravenwing list.  To do so, he has to move too fast for the units he's supposed to be protecting. 

[Wrath of Bruinen]

I really doubt that the dakshroud will get much use out of the 4++ outside of a pure ravenwing list. To do so, he has to move too fast for the units he's supposed to be protecting.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that to advance (and get the jink bonus) you just declare you're advancing and roll the die, but there's no requirement that you actually move that far.

 

You could move 1" and do donuts in the corner for the rest of your movement and advance

[L30n1d4s]

I am excited to try out several aspects of the new Dark Angel codex, especially based on what I have already been using with other Space Marine forces:

 

 

1) -- 3 x Predators with TLLC and HB Sponsons -- Combined with the KILLSHOT stratagem (which DA now have access to), these have been a go to choice in my other lists, since they are so powerful against any Monster and/or Vehicles in the game (i.e. +1 to Wound and +1 to Damage is through the roof good!), especially with re-rolls from a nearby Captain, Lieutenant, Azrael, etc.

 

What really makes me excited to take them with Dark Angels is that they can be made significantly more survivable with a nearby Dark Shroud, putting them in a class above Predator KILLSHOT squadrons for Space Marines, Blood Angels, etc. Additionally, Grim Resolve really helps screening/bubble wrap units for Dark Angels, be they Scouts, Tac Squads, Aggressors, Bikes, etc., since it makes them both more accurate when shooting and also less vulnerable to Morale (so better able to hold up enemy units trying to get to the Predators), all without having to rely on supporting characters... in this, I think a couple of squads of Sniper Scouts might do very well to screen the Predator "fire base" element in my army.

 

 

2) -- Stormravens for the Lion! --- Now that they have access to a transport flyer, I think Dark Angels will be able to take advantage of its abilities in several ways... first of all, with a nearby Dark Shroud, they will be very hard for your opponent to Alpha Strike on turn 1 (even if he gets first turn), since they will be at a -2 to Hit for all opponents (i.e. MEQs hitting on 5+s, Tau hitting on 6+s, Orks not hitting at all!). Additionally, the Stormraven packs some serious mobile firepower, both anti-vehicle and anti-infantry, that can work very well with the rest of a DA army.

 

Finally, as a fast moving transport, a Stormraven can get Asmodai, a Librarian with "Righteous Repugnance," and 5 DW Knights to exactly where they need to go for a Turn 2 assault with a high degree of safety/reliability... that translates to 12 x S10 AP-2 D3 attacks and 4 x S7 AP-3 D2 attacks by the knights, plus attacks from Asmodai and the Librarian, all with re-rolls to Hit and Wound (provided that Asmodai is your WL and the Libby gets "Righteous Repugnance" off successfully)... pretty awesome "hammer" unit if you ask me.

 

 

3) -- Inceptors and the WEAPONS FROM THE DARK AGE Stratagem -- While most people are talking about using this Stratagem with Hellblasters or Plasma Vets or Black Knights (and those are all excellent option), I am particularly interested in using it with Primaris Inceptors squads and their newly reduced points cost (both base and for their Plasma Exterminators).

 

A squad of 6 Inceptors with dual Plasma Exterminators now comes out to just under 71 MBs, which is pricey, but gives you the ability to put out between 12-36 Plasma Shots (average of 24 shots) at 18" after the Inceptors have arrived via Deep Strike... if you Overcharge the Plasma Exterminators and use the WEAPONS FROM THE DARK AGE Stratagem, then each of those shots is S8 AP-3 D3. Combine that with, say, a TDA Captain deep striking nearby for re-rolls of 1s to Hit and you have the potentially to "one shot" even some of the biggest/baddest units in the game like Magnus, Mortarion, Wraithknights, Spartan Assault Tanks, etc.... with a nearby Captain and 24 shots like this, on average a DA Inceptor squad will put 18-19 Unsaved Wounds on a Spartan Assault Tank, for example.

 

Of course, I can potentially combine the Inceptors with other "buffing" options, like Azrael (full re-rolls to Hit and a 4++), Ravenwing Lieutenants in Land Speeders (for re-rolls of 1s to Wound), nearby Dark Shrouds fro -1 to Hit them, etc. etc. so I think they have some real potential in terms of mobility, durability, and firepower within a Dark Angel army.

[Orkinstein]

 

Think I will try a few games with them. They look like fun. Could be very good. So 5 costs the same as 6 black knights . So they do 10d3 shots instead of 12 . That's crazy

6 black knights are 300 but 5 inceptors are only 300 with assault bolters. With plasmas they are 430. Also black knights gona be cheaper so you could almost field 9 black knights from that 430 points. And thats fix 18 shots with plasma talons. Also they can fight with melee weapons not bumping into the enemy with their armor

 

 

inceptors now are much cheaper after Chapter Approved. 25 for body, 10 for assault bolter, 17 for plasma exterminator. So for 6 inceptors with assault bolters are 270, and with plasma are 354. That will be 36 S5 AP-1 bolters or 24 plasma on average. Then they can deep strike and have fly keyword. I am afraid bike just be outclassed by them for most of time...