Competitive dark angels ideas

[breng77]

It will, but because it is a -1 to the characteristic and not a modifier on the morale roll it will have no effect on armies like orks a mob of 30 Boyz granting LD 30 will simply not care about your power or the modifiers. It will also be hurt by any armies that have characters that allow friendly models to use their LD. Plus you can only cast the power once per turn. A -2 LD to most units is

Going to put them at a 6, which means on average you will do 1 mortal wound. Basically casting smite will save you a lot of effort and average a better result.

Edited December 27, 2017 by breng77

[Helycon]

I'm not sure, but I think a lot of characters with LD bubbles only project them for morale specifically. Might be worth checking if they also apply in the psychic phase.

[breng77]

Commissar says "All friendly AM units within 6" can use the commissars LD as their own."

Ork mob rule says "In addition a unit with this ability can use the LD characteristic of any friendly Ork unit within 6" "

Dark Apostle specifies morale phase

Inquisitors "All friendly imperium units can use the inquisitors LD characteristic instead of their own."

Chaplain "All friendly <chapter> units within 6" can use the chaplains LD characteristic instead of their own."

Inspiring leader warlord Trait (in BRB) - Friendly units within 6" add 1 to their LD characteristic - so this negates a -1

Etherials - just morale phase

 

So it works on some armies better than others, but some armies it is not so great.  SO like I said matchup dependent.

 

Orks - against most builds you are dead in the water

AM - did they bring a commissar?  If so you could be in trouble

Chaplains and inquisitors are not terribly common

Necrons are base LD 10 so even a -2 is still really bad for the power.

 

The issue is the power requires 2 tests on 2D6, and except against things like Termagants you are looking at 2D6 >7 and 2D6>6+, and doing that requires you to get a bunch of characters close up to use it.  Even then if you lower them to LD 6 you need a 9 to be better than an average smite, and a 12 to be as good as the best smite.  At that rate why not save yourself the trouble and just use smite?  I guess if the new beta rules come into play maybe (though I would cast smite twice before even considering this power), or you want to cast both this and smite with one psyker?

 

I think to try this you are trying to hard and investing too much to make it work.  Especially when a few armies make it terrible.

[Madmonkeyman]

Has anyone tried using a sicaren . Can keep up with the ravenwing as fast tank with assault weapons. Could be useful as doesn't suffer any negative modifiers to hit when targeting units with fly( which is loads of things ) so could even advance and target things with out negative to hit. All for 165 points

[Polythemus]

Ok so I see your point but empyric chan. Will add 2 to any roll you make on a psychic test. That is why you use it in conjunction. That means that 50% of the time your rolling a 9 or better. The best uses for this would be WC 7 powers . Granted it's only for one power, but inadition you can still cast smite and another power plus you have two other psykers to use for smite or whatever else. This means 3 smite sources , plus up 5 other DA powers and any one of them can benefit from adding two to the manifest roll. Average smite gives 2 wounds, mind worm adds a another. Engulfing fear makes the average morale roll a 3 or worse. Six mortal wounds a turn shreds elite stuff and other stuff in the army exist to deal with hordes. I'll try to run this verses my friends wraithguard army. I will shut down any further comment till others weigh in.

[Helycon]

Ok so I see your point but empyric chan. Will add 2 to any roll you make on a psychic test. That is why you use it in conjunction. That means that 50% of the time your rolling a 9 or better. The best uses for this would be WC 7 powers . Granted it's only for one power, but inadition you can still cast smite and another power plus you have two other psykers to use for smite or whatever else. This means 3 smite sources , plus up 5 other DA powers and any one of them can benefit from adding two to the manifest roll. Average smite gives 2 wounds, mind worm adds a another. Engulfing fear makes the average morale roll a 3 or worse. Six mortal wounds a turn shreds elite stuff and other stuff in the army exist to deal with hordes. I'll try to run this verses my friends wraithguard army. I will shut down any further comment till others weigh in.

The issue people have with the powers is you need two consecutive rolls of 2D6 to be relatively high. Since you're statistically rolling an average of 7, chances are the first one will be fine, Empyric channeling or not. The second will be trickier, and will generally only work against targets that are lower leadership, IE, 6 or lower. Sure, it can blow something up if you roll a 14 and it has a leadership characteristic of 6, which is VERY few units that matter. It's generally fodder. Wraithguard have a Ld of 9, so slim chance of doing anything at all. The investment is simply not worth it to just pull of Trephination. Sadly, the same applies to Mind Wipe. It's a great psychic power if it actually works, but most of the time, it won't work against the bigger targets that all have great Ld. A Smite, which is easier to manifest and if so, will ALWAYS do something and with Empyric channeling, has a higher chance of getting 11+ and going fo D6 mortal wounds.

 

Feel free to try of course and maybe you do get some fun blasts off, but chances are, it'll be fun for your opponent to see the magic blowing up in your face and eating your own brain ;) .

[Madmonkeyman]

Agree on trephination. Far far too situational and most of the time smite is just better. Mind wipe isn't that hard too pull off as most tanks have ld 8 and librarians are 9. Should get it off more than 25% of the time roughly.

 

My prob is that is your opponent doesn't bring a big Killy unit the librarian is kind of wasted is you take aversion / mind wipe

Edited December 27, 2017 by Madmonkeyman

[breng77]

Maybe if you are foregoing any other HQ choices in favor of your 3 Librarians and Interrogator Chaplain.  Which I'm not sure is a great trade since many of our other HQs are very good.  Otherwise you are spending ~500 points to put out those mortal wounds.  And against armies with Chaff those mortal wounds are largely on 4-8 point models.

[JGeils81]

@Madmonkey, I’ve been using two librarians on bikes since I discovered how slow libs on foot are. They are well worth taking. Usually team them up with Sammy and some bikers/knights but I’ve messed up baneblades with them solo too... (precodex) hit it with 4 lascannons from a pred and parked the lib in aversion range and just kept casting on it each turn. Best part is aversion works in shooting and fight phases, Sammy about to charge and hit with STr 9 raven sword? Aversion on target first... no overwatch for you!

[mika_angelus]

Overwatch ignores modifiers.

[JGeils81]

Really? I’ll have to look that up, even like -1 from darkshroud or shooting at a flyer?

[Wrath of Bruinen]

Yep - overwatch ignores all modifiers (positive and negative) except where the rule for the modifier says it specifically applies to overwatch (e.g. the Mordian 'chapter tactics')

[dtse]

Haha yea. Sammy charging a shadowsword with 5+ overwatch strategem = dead Sammy

[rendingon1+]

A question: do we pay for champion's combt shield? It is not listed as an equpiment only as a special rule. Also...are champions (all three) worth it in your opinion?

[dtse]

No. It’s just the name of his invuln save

[Berzul]

I think the Champion that is most worth it is the Company Champion. Extremely cheap, great in melee, and cool looking to boot.

 

The DW Champion is way too expensive for what it does, I feel. I'd rather take an Ancient for the extra attacks or a couple of Knights or Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer Terminators, to be honest.

 

The RW Champion I like, but again, I feel that he is too expensive.

 

A Company Champion is cheap, can ride any transport, fights very well, is survivable enough, and adds a punch anywhere.

 

Add him to a gunline to have someone beat away charged. Add him to an Assault Squad in a drop pod or Rhino and go hunt enemies. Add him to a Veteran Squad, place them in a Rhino, and lead the fight.

 

... or, for just a bit over the the cst of the other champions, add all three!! Did I mention he is extremely cheap?

[rendingon1+]

Thanks guys. I'll test him (them haha) out.

[Syphid]

I'm agonizing over Intercessor weapon options. I think I have it narrowed down to bolt rifles vs auto bolt rifles, but I can't decide which works best with Grim Resolve. Auto rifles supported but a lieutenant with MC ABR and Master of Manoeuvre, or bolt rifles with a Chaplain with and the +1 Str trait for melee balance?

[breng77]

I think if you want to use Grim Resolve the auto-bolt rifle seems better because it has more shots at longer range so you will not need to move as often.  The standard bolt rifle strikes more more as a weapon you use moving toward the enemy.

[JGeils81]

Have any of you used aggressors yet? Wife got me some for Christmas..

Thinking of loading them into my repulsor for a ride to the front mine, bolter gauntlets, seem tougher and more shoots than terminators but need a ride(can’t teleport in)

 

Would you send any characters with(limited options with their transportation options)or just have them near others?(I like mobile HQs on bikes)

And use bolts or flame?

If I can get them within 18” the double firing for not moving is nice, and grim resolve

[dtse]

I’m trying to make 9 aggressors work. Bolters for sure. They are just way better without the 8” limitation.

 

If you wanna play them as dark angels then I’d just start them on the board in cover and move and advance up. Unless it’s hammer and anvil you will be I range for most things you wanna shoot (ie chaff). Consider allying them in as ravenguard for infiltrate. Or space wolves for outflank depending on how you wanna play them. They’re a pretty good charge deterrent. It keep in mind they WILL die and are not that tough.

[jlmb_123]

A little one I noticed: Reivers deep strike, use Shock Grenades in the next turn whilst the Black Knights using Speed of the Raven lets you advance, shoot at full strength then charge without any Overwatch.

[breng77]

Maybe if you can deepstrike out of LOS, otherwise I don't see them living long enough for that to work.

[Madmonkeyman]

so has anyone come up with any good ideas for allies for dark angels. Obvious choices are assassins and celestine.  Just curious at dark angels really do struggle in certain areas ( getting round invun saves ).  

[breng77]

I mean the obvious one is Guard, add some chaff to protect your gunline azzy and get more CP. 

 

I've been using White Scars in my Ravenwing heavy list to be able to advance, shoot and charge with 2 units.  I use this particularly for scout bikes, as they don't really benefit from being DA in any way.  My plan is to bring a SW detachment at 2k using some SW scouts and aggressors to make use of Lion and the Wolf in some cases, and to "outflank" with the scouts and aggressors .