First run with the new dex.

[Morticon]

Hey guys, just wanted to share some thoughts. 

I had a first trial run of a gimmicky (ie: non-optimised) list that was designed to try out some tricks. 

I ran:

 

Mephy

Jumpy Priest with Angels Wing

Sanguinor

Lemmy

 

2x 5 Intercessors

2x 10 scouts (pwr swd/pf), cmbi melta

1x 5 tac - lascan

1x 5 tac - melta, cmbimelta

 

Sang Ancient

12 DC - 2Fist, 1pwr swd

 

1x 5 Dev - 2ML

1x 5 ASM - 2MG, Fist

1x 5 ASM - 2MG, Swd

 

1x Pod

 

 

I ran up against this:

 

Pask in Russ with Plasma sponsons

4x Russes with Plasma sponsons

1x 10 Guardsmen

 

2x NDK Grand Masters 

4x 5 GK Strikes

 

_______________________

The odds were unfortunately stacked against me on a variety of fronts.  Had vanguard set up, allowing enemy to deploy far further back than i'd hoped. 

 

My intent was to use Forlorn Fury to get a first turn charge - and if they deployed poorly (ie: on the line, with a single row of bubble wrap, to hop over the wrap).

Pro TIp :  DC Hop.  For those who havent spotted this, with a 24" set up, if you and your opponent set up on the line, all you need is a 3+ for your advance to hop a single file line.  Keep an eye out for it. 

 

Sadly, the set up made that impossible. 

While terrain helping tremendously for LOS blocking, it also meant that my scout charges where not going to happen, especially since he was also further back in his zone than would otherwise allow a simple 3" charge. 
 

I took some fire from the russes turn one, as all his GK were in reserve but was largely protected by the LOS blocking terrain, so damage was minimal.

My turn meant I could potentially get 3 charges off, and if the combos worked, could engage 3 russes.

 

Pro Tip:  Mephy Hop.  With a pod - which I think is usually useless, Mephy works exceptionally well to negate bubble wrap.  Again, it only works on single file wrap.  But, the 9" deploy means that with the 12" Wings move, you will be exactly far enough away (25mm bases) to hop over the line. 

I managed to get off wings, and was on the other side of the guardsmen. 

 

While the DC couldnt use Forlorn Fury, they could use Wings of Fire.  (and for 1CP less!) 

 

Pro Tip:  Wings of Fire and Descent of Angels.  The verbiage of the strats allow these two to combo exceptionally. This meant that DC would be able to almost certainly get the 9".  My aim though, was to get 12-15" so i could hop the line in the charge, and then consolidate into the Russ behind, OR combo this with Honour the Chapter and then consolidate into the Russ/Russes.  

 

Bonus Tip:  Lemmy support Drop.  With Lemmy in reserve, he can drop where he needs to.  Put him down behind the DC to get their charge, or in front if you'd like to stagger the DC to get rerolls - rerolls on 3d6" mean you're in for a solid time. 

Sadly, the first roll was only 9" - enough to make it in.  I risked a reroll, and wound up with another 9". Enough to get in, but not enough to pull in what i needed.

 

The priest dropped away from the main core, to try prevent a single Russ from shooting and do a little damage - with Angels Wing the no OW and reroll to charge meant I could possibly get in. 
 

Sadly, I failed both the charge, and the reroll.  

Ideally, all 3 of these combos would have resulted in absolute devastation - but, I was hoping for 2/3.  Sadly, I only got 1 of 3 off (the Mephy combo). 

I then used HotC to make sure the one Russ died. 

I had brought the scouts up to support the rest of the army in the subsequent turn, but again, LOS blocking terrain was both a benefit and a bane.   Sanguinor was out of range for most things too. I think i placed him poorly.  Shooting (meltas) was abysmal. 

Fast forwarding, at the end of both of turn two, he has 2 russes left, 2 NDK GMs and squads of 3,1 and 5 Strikes left.  

I have both tacs, a pod, 2 scouts, 4 intercessors, 1 intercessor, Mephy, Sanguinor and a Priest.  

Absolute carnage.

 

I think he'll take it in the long run, but it was a good trial run for some of the combos.  

 

DC+Lemmy combo with Forlorn or Wings of Fire+descent is brilliant, and may be a staple for me. 
Mephy + Pod combo may be a tourney standard too - depending on what local meta is. 

Wings of Fire may be one of the greatest keys to winning with BA, I think. 

Chunky squads of DC are exceptional - but I think SS VanVets will have their role too - the DC went down exceptionally easily to the russes, and I think the vets would have hung around a lot longer with 3++, and a potential 5+++ 


Its early days for me and for the playstyle and list design, but I see LOTS of potential and potential that forces the opponent to play differently, which can only mean good things. 

One thing is for certain though, 8+ CP is really, really needed.  

 

[9x19 Parabellum]

ok, so, I'm confused. Who won?

[Morticon]

ok, so, I'm confused. Who won?

 

Had to break mid-game! 

 

We're at the start of his 3rd, picking up later.  I may just call it, because I dont think I can weather the storm coming.  He has enough time to take me out over 3+ turns and I dont have the equipment to take on the Knights.  Mephy is also unlikely to survive 2 russes to the face.  

 

Will keep you posted. 

[brother_b]

 

ok, so, I'm confused. Who won?

 

Had to break mid-game! 

 

We're at the start of his 3rd, picking up later.  I may just call it, because I dont think I can weather the storm coming.  He has enough time to take me out over 3+ turns and I dont have the equipment to take on the Knights.  Mephy is also unlikely to survive 2 russes to the face.  

 

Will keep you posted. 

 

Especially when said russes can double-tap their main guns (for whatever reason they needed to add that, I don't know).

 

That being said, Mephiston is a bad man and if he does survive... muwahahahahaha

[Morticon]

He had taken four wounds already- priest put him back up 2 ! :P But, with 3 left, i think its overs.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Thanks for the analysis!  Lots of unfortunate rolls on your end, however it is good to see what happens when those fail and know what to expect.

 

Wings of Fire may be one of the greatest keys to winning with BA, I think. 

 

I totally agree on this point and I'm very excited this strategem is in our book.  Its flexibility is incredible and gives us so many options on the tabletop.  Putting Dante's hit rerolls, Lemarte's DC charge rerolls, or just any unit anywhere needed is insane.

 

Mephy + Pod combo may be a tourney standard too - depending on what local meta is. 

 

Meph in a pod with a 8 man x4 gravcannon devastator squad with melta or plasma ASM is incredible on turn 2, especially with a UWoF Dante providing hit rerolls to the shooting units.  If one can also manage to get a large squad of DC in the opponent's zone that's a lot of threat rammed right into their throat.  The only issue with Meph in this regard is an unlucky Deny the Witch roll.  However, he can still have a good chance at casting Unleash Rage on the DC or Shield of Sanguinius on anything that needs it.

 

DC+Lemmy combo with Forlorn or Wings of Fire+descent is brilliant, and may be a staple for me. 

 

This combo is pretty awesome, but as you note it is still a glass cannon.  A storm shield VV squad is definitely more survivable, but VV don't benefit from all those strategems and Lemartes like the DC do.  I think having Meph cast Shield of Sanguinius on them could help.

[Charlo]

Looks a good list, similar to what I might be running these days too!

 

Glad to know the Meph pod has resonated with you, means the idea must be sound ;)

[Morticon]

Looks a good list, similar to what I might be running these days too!

 

Glad to know the Meph pod has resonated with you, means the idea must be sound

LOL - defs is :P 

 

Ive changed the list up a bit - trying out a brigade now - up against an absolutely deadly GK list tomorrow.  

[swordofmandulis]

I'd be very disappointed if they Blood Angels don't take the Grey Knights.

[Blindhamster]

depends, stuff like sanguinary guard are going to struggle vs grey knights.

[9x19 Parabellum]

So this got me wondering; does an Armorium Cherub take up space in a drop pod?

[Panzer]

So this got me wondering; does an Armorium Cherub take up space in a drop pod?

If it's a seperate model then yes unless it says otherwise.

[Pendent]

depends, stuff like sanguinary guard are going to struggle vs grey knights.

How so? High AP multi damage weapons seem like a really good solution for an army like that. I suppose NDK might be tougher but that's what plasma Inceptors are for.

[Morticon]

 

So this got me wondering; does an Armorium Cherub take up space in a drop pod?

If it's a seperate model then yes unless it says otherwise.

 

Damn! Didnt notice that!! Interesting. Its got its own profile and everything. 

[Morticon]

I'd be very disappointed if they Blood Angels don't take the Grey Knights.

The two local GK players are very, very strong, and their lists are always sick. 

 

Second last 8th tournament I played saw the most exceptional beating ive ever taken in a tourney  (tabled in turn 4)- all at the hands of a GK list. 

 

Theyre very solid.  A touch one dimensional - but solid.  Will have to try outplay to avoid smitespam and doubletap SB range. 

[Charlo]

Care to elaborate on the list they used?

 

Many a frater fully bemoan the GK and their apparently terrible codex so its interesting to hear you say the opposite!

[swordofmandulis]

Yeah agreed, grey knights certainly aren't considered even remotely competitive, they are very one dimensional and if you prevent the alpha I'm not sure how they are especially dangerous, aside from grand master dreadknight.

[Blindhamster]

 

depends, stuff like sanguinary guard are going to struggle vs grey knights.

How so? High AP multi damage weapons seem like a really good solution for an army like that. I suppose NDK might be tougher but that's what plasma Inceptors are for.

 

 

because all grey knights have multi damage good AP weapons, and most grey knights are single wound models.

 

the net result is that they are actually not well suited to the task. Multi Damage weapons vs single wound models are redundant, the grey knights average weapon damage is 2, so they kill sanguinary guard with a single hit anyway (so the sanguinary guards extra wound doesnt mean much). You COULD have the SG hunt paladins, but im not convinced thats a fight the SG would win.

[Pendent]

 

 

depends, stuff like sanguinary guard are going to struggle vs grey knights.

How so? High AP multi damage weapons seem like a really good solution for an army like that. I suppose NDK might be tougher but that's what plasma Inceptors are for.

 

 

because all grey knights have multi damage good AP weapons, and most grey knights are single wound models.

 

the net result is that they are actually not well suited to the task. Multi Damage weapons vs single wound models are redundant, the grey knights average weapon damage is 2, so they kill sanguinary guard with a single hit anyway (so the sanguinary guards extra wound doesnt mean much). You COULD have the SG hunt paladins, but im not convinced thats a fight the SG would win.

 

I assumed most GK's were still in TDA so SG would have a decent chance of wiping a squad efficiently. Looking into it a bit apparently strike squads are pretty decent now?  I don't have a single GK in my local scene so I just go off of what I see online.

[Panzer]

No serious GK player plays TDA afaik. Only Strike Teams for Troops and Paladins for Terminators (but also rather rarely since they are still very expensive). Just take a look at the GK listbuilding subforum. ^^

[swordofmandulis]

Paladins are good but generally run in small squads, if you are doing Sanguinary guard right to make use of the stratagems you are running a decent sized unit and that will absolutely decimate a paladin squad if you get the charge. Remember they are still only S4, T4. Don't want to take this too far off topic though. Killing units like Paladins is what Sanguinary guard were made for.

[Aothaine]

Yeah agreed, grey knights certainly aren't considered even remotely competitive, they are very one dimensional and if you prevent the alpha I'm not sure how they are especially dangerous, aside from grand master dreadknight.

 

You take a knight list supported by paladins.

 

Edit: Thank you very much for the bat rep! Meph in a drop pod is a pretty sweet idea. Though I think I would run him with that unit that can take wounds for him if they can have jump packs and drop a priest in with them to bring back the models absorbing wounds from Meph. Just keep Meph up front so most of the fire is going at him and you can just redirect it then bring the boys back with the priest. Interesting stuff for sure!

Edited December 12, 2017 by Aothaine

[brother_b]

My pod list will contain something like this:

 

Mephiston

5 X dev (4 grav cannon/HB; sgt with combi plas/melta)

armorium cherub

2X company vets with combi plas/melta (or 3 for full compliment)

 

Pod drops, captain with artifact jump pack drops, shooting happens.

 

Jump captain charges everybody within range, takes overwatch (can't fire). Mephiston then flies into battle with spell, hits target jump captain has engaged. Carnage.

[Morticon]

Care to elaborate on the list they used?

 

Many a frater fully bemoan the GK and their apparently terrible codex so its interesting to hear you say the opposite!

I think their complaints (from what i've gathered) stem from their lack of felxibility and lack of intra codex balance.  Their units are poorly costed comparatively so the roles dont work out well.

 

The list that smoked me (if memory serves) was:

 

Draigo

Libby (i think)

 

1x 8 Strikes

1x 7 Strikes

2x5 Strikes

2x 5 Terms

 

2x Ravens

 

Something similar to that - possibly more squads, maybe even combat squadded strikes.  Cant remember exactly.  The drop saw both ravens and 5/6 units within SB range (this was prior to me having bubble wrap to force the enemy out of 12" .  

 

List im up against now is:

 

Draigo

Brother Cap - psycan, hammer

Brother Champ 

 

4x 5 Strikes - hammer

1x 5 Strikes

2x 5 Strikes- hammer, incinerator 

1x 5 Strikes- hammer, psycan

 

1x 5 Purgators - 4 psilencers

2x Rhinos

 

1x 5 Scouts - rifles, ML, cloaks. 

 

____

 

That means 7 drops (8 if you round up, i cant remember) - gives them complete tactical flexibility to either alpha or beta strike - and smash out 7-8 smite wounds before shooting.

 

 

4 SB shots each, with rerolls is so powerful. And the falcions in combat mean bad news for combat BA.  

[Morticon]

Yeah agreed, grey knights certainly aren't considered even remotely competitive, they are very one dimensional and if you prevent the alpha I'm not sure how they are especially dangerous, aside from grand master dreadknight.

 

Remember that meta changes area to area.  In our meta, that GK double raven list went 3 for 3 in the one day tournament- and he was a new player.  Tabled every opponent he had - including the wiley vets.

  

They are definitely one-dimensional, but the smite spam followed by SB rage with rerolls is exceptional. 

 

I think with bubble wrapped big guns - they will definitely struggle more- especially vs T8 units - against infantry, they clean up.  

 

But ill keep you all posted about the game.