Hours Heresy + Second Edition 40K rule set?

[Warhead01]

I'm not really sure where this should be put so I hope this is the right spot.

 

I'm wondering if anyone know if there is a hours heresy rule set using Second Edition 40K.

And if there is such a thing where can I find it? 
Thank you for any information or leads to finding anything related. 

[Leonaides]

Not an official one.

[Warhead01]

Not an official one.

haha. Well, I hadn't expected anything "official". I was wondering if there was a home brew or something like that. 

[Xenith]

Yes, use the second ed 40k rules, but only have space marine armies.

[totgeboren]

That would basically be 1ed. I'm serious. 2ed with marine armies would work well enough, except you don't have rules for a bunch of odd and/or wacky weapons. Almost all of these weapons were salvaged from 1ed, and the 1ed and 2ed rules are pretty compatible.

 

Also, in 1ed marines were not fully the warrior monks of 2ed and after, but rather psycho elite soldiers. There was no ATSKNF and so on, so 1ed is actually a pretty good place to start for a 2ed type game set during the HH.

[Rik Lightstar]

The difference between 1st and 2nd editions were HUGE. A lot of the wacky weapons did feature in 2nd.

 

The real question though is why?

 

Rik

[M@verik115]

I too am interested as to why? lol

[apologist]

Interesting idea. 2nd edition would work as-is, as some of the posters above have mentioned. Rogue Trader, much as I love it, could also work, but I'd recommend second edition as being slightly more streamlined and familiar – no T3, 4+ armour marines, and the vehicle rules are more coherent.

 

If you're happy to follow the example of Adeptus Titanicus, and have the Legions fight identically (i.e. no special rules to differentiate the Legions), I think that the main stumbling block is simply working out what's available to the Legions, and how to apply that to the Codex Army Lists book. For infantry, that's pretty easy – every weapon has a points cost, for example; and it's a matter of simple arithmetic to work out the points cost of a single marine (30).

 

For flavour, you'll need to gloss some of the names – Space Marine Praetor rather than Space Marine Commander; combi-bolter rather than storm bolter etc.

 

Mechanically, simply ignoring or replacing certain restrictions (unit size of 20 in a Tactical squad for 600pts, for example) with those in the Age of Darkness rules (or your own, of course). That'll allow you to build the unit types described in the modern era: a Tactical Support Squad is simply a Devastator squad with access to the Special Weapons rather than Heavy Weapons. A Recon Squad would be a Tactical Squad with the ability to buy shotguns/sniper rifles.

 

It'd take some creativity – discuss with your gaming group whether Blind Grenades or Photon Flash Grenades that best equivalent for Shroud Bombs, for example – but should be a fairly quick job.

 

+++

 

If you want to use Legion rules, then it gets a bit more difficult, but a lot of the changes should translate over relatively easily. The Iron Hands 'reduction in shooting strength' rules can be used as-is, for example.

 

I'd suggest using the Veteran Sergeant statline as the basis for the elite units (distinguishing them by their equipment), at 40pts a pop – 30pts for each marine, +10 as per Veteran Sergeant upgrade.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Apologist

[Warhead01]

I like those ideas. I was thinking to draw from the Marine codex, angels of death and the Chaos codex for the legions. I was mostly wondering about what to do with newer vehicles. I'd like for any models a player has to be usable. I had wondered if there was a fan home brew rules set out there somewhere. I thought it would just be easier to see what other people were up to than start from scratch. 

I hadn't thought about points for anything yet, I would actually be more interested in a different means of balancing out each army for a game. In a way it shouldn't really matter as both players would be drawing from the same pool of available options.  I guess this would make it more of a narrative game. I expect if I can get this off the ground that I will have to do the majority of the work. Which is fine if it produces a few days worth of entertaining games.

 

The only part I'm not sure I like is Close Combat which I haven't been a fan of, from that edition. 

 

How would you deal with flyers? I think they would fit due to vehicle movement rules but would need a git of work.  although if I create set forces then I can simply avoid making them an option for either side. At least in the early games.

[Xenith]

Remember that the Horus Heresy ruleset was just an expansion for warhammer 40,000. It only featured rules that were in the primary game. As such, a HH expansion for second ed rules will be the same, unless you want massive trying to make up your own rules and balance them.

 

Second ed wasn't designed for the kind of games 7th ed Horus Heresy is, and promotes. Its way more complex and in depth.

 

There are already rules for space marines with weird and wacky wargear in second ed, I'd go with those. There are rules for tanks, you have rules for weapons, you can hash something together for the newer tanks on chassis that existed in second. I cannot imagine how badly adding flyers to second would break the game, but probably a lot.

[Warhead01]

I cannot imagine how badly adding flyers to second would break the game, but probably a lot.

Maybe. Again I will have to sort out just how to use them. I want it to be a big deal when one show up. If I'm setting the forces I can create some balance to them. In a narrative game that is scenario driven  I have the freedom to implement a counter balance, what ever that would be. 

 

 

One thing that crossed my mind is creating a list of available units each player can draw from with a set allowance of total units. (The less work players have to do the better. )  This would be an attempt at balanced lists for each side with out bothering over the points costs. 

 

That would also allow for limited interaction with things like flyers to let them have an impact but also limit their total dominance. 

 

I'd be thrilled to get 4 games a year if I can get the interest. 

[apologist]

 

 

I hadn't thought about points for anything yet, I would actually be more interested in a different means of balancing out each army for a game. In a way it shouldn't really matter as both players would be drawing from the same pool of available options.  I guess this would make it more of a narrative game.

 

Working out a points system is by far the hardest part of any homebrew material, so if your group is happy to bypass competitive gaming in favour of experiential gaming ~ that is, you're all there to simulate an event, rather than necessarily rooting for one side over the other – you'll be set.

 

Well-handled, even unwinnable situations (last stand scenarios like Rorke's Drift, for example) can be fun to game. You might look at historical or scenario gaming for some ideas on how to play without a balancing mechanism. Remember, there's nothing wrong with balanced games of equal points, but they're not the be-all and end-all – real war, after all, is far from balanced! 

 

As a starting point, I'd suggest playing escalating engagements; effectively starting with small forces (twenty or so men) to get use to the mechanics, then gradually introducing new units as you go. 

[Xenith]

As above. Don't try to balance points, go through the wargear book and veto the worst offenders, namely vortex grenades. These things have no place in the battlefield. Imagine if the primarchs had them? Makes sense, but the heresy woukd have been over quick.

[Warhead01]

As above. Don't try to balance points, go through the wargear book and veto the worst offenders, namely vortex grenades. These things have no place in the battlefield. Imagine if the primarchs had them? Makes sense, but the heresy woukd have been over quick.

We certainly have different opinions about the wargear. I will say I thought it was implied with my other thoughts about flyers how I'd like to handle the more OP things in these games.  Maybe I was too subtle.  I for one love Vortex grenades and if they were available in 30K I'd use them at nearly every opportunity. I don't see, specifically, the Vortex grenade as an issue. At best there would be two of them on the table and that's not all. You may not remember the Vortex detonator. It ruined my clever plains more than a few times. 

One of the things I am finding that I want to do is set some items or units aside to be earned or unlocked. Setting conditions and giving choices to the players should be part of the fun of the game. (Aside from wrecking face.)