Looking for some help starting BA

[SmiteThemAll]

Hey all, let me just preface by saying I only want 750 points to have some fun small games with.

 

I want the army to be fast and assault focused and I'd really like to field a battalion detachment.

 

So far I've pieced these units together.

 

 

Captain with a jump pack (Angel's wings) and probably a thunder hammer)

Librarian with a jump pack (Quickening and wings of sanguinius) or a Sanguinary priest with a jump pack.

 

5 Company veterans w/Jump packs Power weapons and Storm bolters

 

5 Scouts w/BP&CCW

5 Scouts w/BP&CCW

5 Scouts w/BP&CCW

 

This leaves me about 200 points. I'd like to fill it with jump pack units of some sort. Sanguinary guard? Inceptors ? Assault marines? More company vets or Vanguard vets? The only unit I refuse to include is death company. I've painted far too much black power armour :D

 

I could be convinced to change the troops and HQ if theres a good argument for it. I'd like the army to play fast and hit hard in assault.

 

Would love to hear some BA regular's advice !

 

 

[Panzer]

Don't focus too much on characters at 750p. The less units you have they can buff the less cost efficient they become.

Also you do need some ranged element in your army or you won't be happy playing Blood Angels and since you're lacking anti-tank stuff I heavily recommend some Lascannon Devastators for your remaining points.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I gotta echo SFpanzer here.  I really recommend a Devastator squad, armed with even 2 lascannons, along with armorium cherub and signum, they can do some work in 750 pt. game.

 

You could squeeze that in tight at 120 pts , leaving you roughly ~80 pts...if you can find 20 points somewhere, you could get a unit of 5 naked jump pack death company (or, conversely you can run them on foot for 85 pts).   EDIT: Just realized you don't like death company.  (that's a shame as you're really missing out on our signature unit)

 

Well, you can also do Vanguard Vets for around the same points...but they aren't much different in concept than Command Squad.  Speaking of which...are you aware of the discussed dangers of running company vets with jump packs?

Edited December 15, 2017 by 9x19 Parabellum

[rayvn26]

Devastators are good and all, they really are. Though with the theme of this army, to me, it looks fast and in your face I'd go with attack bikes with multi meltas mainly because people never expect them and they are quite good for what they do. Also Death Company doesn't have to painted black there's a successor chapter that paints them white.

Edited December 15, 2017 by rayvn26

[Xenith]

Agree with the above comments on too many heroes at 750pts.

 

At this level I'd spend no more than 100 - 110pts on a character, ideally less. Something Like captain/lieutenant, jump pack, power sword/thunder hammer, combi bolter/melta. would work. 

 

The army has one very obvious shoot me unit in it, and it will die fast. 5 3+ save wounds aren't going to do much. Maybe 2 storm shields, 2 power weapons, 4 combi bolters?

 

5 Sanguard will work well in this small army if you can fit them in. They would pair nicely with the company vets to present 2 threats.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Well, he wants to run a battalion, so he's going to need 2 characters.

 

Smite, you might be able to get by with a Libby and a Lt. to act as your "beat stick"

[SmiteThemAll]

Don't focus too much on characters at 750p. The less units you have they can buff the less cost efficient they become.

Also you do need some ranged element in your army or you won't be happy playing Blood Angels and since you're lacking anti-tank stuff I heavily recommend some Lascannon Devastators for your remaining points.

I'm trying to keep the characters cheap but I'd really like to run a battalion at 750 as I think the 6 command points would have a big effect on the game. Not only in a competitive sense but in a fun sense! I love the BA strats and they are very flexible and will make for an enjoyable game.

 

They cost 234 points for the pair. For what they bring i think its quite cheap. Captain is likely to make a charge first turn and deny overwatch. Librarian can use wings and jump over screens, buff himself with quickening and assault something.

 

I'm really not interested in static shooting units, I could be convinced to get some mobile shooting. ASM w/Melta or plasma, baal predators but I'm really interested in an assault force and while I do agree that in general shooting is paramount in 8th, I think that in a non-tournament 750 point force ,you can probably get away with little to none.

 

Maybe I could squeeze missile launchers on the scouts?

 

I gotta echo SFpanzer here.  I really recommend a Devastator squad, armed with even 2 lascannons, along with armorium cherub and signum, they can do some work in 750 pt. game.

 

You could squeeze that in tight at 120 pts , leaving you roughly ~80 pts...if you can find 20 points somewhere, you could get a unit of 5 naked jump pack death company (or, conversely you can run them on foot for 85 pts).   EDIT: Just realized you don't like death company.  (that's a shame as you're really missing out on our signature unit)

 

Well, you can also do Vanguard Vets for around the same points...but they aren't much different in concept than Command Squad.  Speaking of which...are you aware of the discussed dangers of running company vets with jump packs?

 

What are the discussed dangers of a command squad?

Devastators are good and all, they really are. Though with the theme of this army, to me, it looks fast and in your face I'd go with attack bikes with multi meltas mainly because people never expect them and they are quite good for what they do. Also Death Company doesn't have to painted black there's a successor chapter that paints them white.

The attack bikes could work but I'm put off by the 1 shot and the -1 to hit if its moved. I'm going to be painting fairly traditional BA so no death company. Thanks for the suggestion tho.

 

Agree with the above comments on too many heroes at 750pts.

 

At this level I'd spend no more than 100 - 110pts on a character, ideally less. Something Like captain/lieutenant, jump pack, power sword/thunder hammer, combi bolter/melta. would work. 

 

The army has one very obvious shoot me unit in it, and it will die fast. 5 3+ save wounds aren't going to do much. Maybe 2 storm shields, 2 power weapons, 4 combi bolters?

 

5 Sanguard will work well in this small army if you can fit them in. They would pair nicely with the company vets to present 2 threats.

 

Yea usually I'd agree but I'd like a battalion so that puts that to rest. Totally agreed about the company vets, Sanguinary guard are definitely in the running. For 200 points I'm guessing Fists/Plasma pistols ?

Well, he wants to run a battalion, so he's going to need 2 characters.

 

Smite, you might be able to get by with a Libby and a Lt. to act as your "beat stick"

Yea thanks Parabellum, that could help to keep the HQ cost down. 

 

 

 

Thank you all for taking the time to reply, much obliged.

 

How about this for a potential list?

 

 

Librarian w/JP

LT w/JP (Angels wings)

 

5 Sanguinary Guard

5 Company vets 

 

3x5 Scouts w/ML

Edited December 16, 2017 by SmiteThemAll

[Brother Crimson]

The danger of company vet is that you have to rely on the flowchart to use index version of it.

 

Company vet with stormbolter and chainsword is super good and effective. I love this unit.

 

By honour guard I guess you mean sanguinary guard ? If so it’s a great unit to pair with a lieutenant warlord. Be sure you give them some encarmine axe or power fist to help taking down vehicles. They look like they will be you main antitank and even at 750 point a few Leman Russ can show up.

[Panzer]

 

Don't focus too much on characters at 750p. The less units you have they can buff the less cost efficient they become.

Also you do need some ranged element in your army or you won't be happy playing Blood Angels and since you're lacking anti-tank stuff I heavily recommend some Lascannon Devastators for your remaining points.

I'm trying to keep the characters cheap but I'd really like to run a battalion at 750 as I think the 6 command points would have a big effect on the game. Not only in a competitive sense but in a fun sense! I love the BA strats and they are very flexible and will make for an enjoyable game.

 

They cost 234 points for the pair. For what they bring i think its quite cheap. Captain is likely to make a charge first turn and deny overwatch. Librarian can use wings and jump over screens, buff himself with quickening and assault something.

 

I'm really not interested in static shooting units, I could be convinced to get some mobile shooting. ASM w/Melta or plasma, baal predators but I'm really interested in an assault force and while I do agree that in general shooting is paramount in 8th, I think that in a non-tournament 750 point force ,you can probably get away with little to none.

 

Maybe I could squeeze missile launchers on the scouts?

 

 

I'm not telling you to play a static gunline, I'm telling you to try a more balanced approach. Melee is weaker than shooting yes, but that's not the point. It's that Blood Angels are still Marines who are designed to be taken in a balanced list. If you go 100% on melee you won't be happy with your games.

But I'll try to find a compromiss for you...which are bound to be a bit more expensive unfortunately.

 

Assault Marines with double Melta (combi-Melta on the Sergeant would've been nice but we can't do that anymore unfortunately) = 114p

You'd probably have to take two of those units in a 750p list tho.

 

3 Biker with 2x Melta + 1x Combi-Melta = 134p

Basically the same as the Assault Marines but worse.

 

5 Company Veterans with Jump Pack and 4x Melta + 1x Combi-Melta = 182p

Basically a suicide unit and designed to nuke that one pesky tank/monster, however it doesn't live up to its full potential due not being able to drop within half range of the Melta. That's why Lascannon Devastators are usually prefered

 

5 Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs and 5x Thunderhammer = 170p

Purely melee, requires CP to do something the turn they arrive from reserves reliably and if your opponent bubble wraps his tanks/monsters with cheap chaff you'd need to remove it first or you won't be able to get to them.

 

5 Deathcompany with Jump Packs and 5x Thunderhammer = 180p

Basically same as above but with more attacks on the charge and a 6+++

 

5 Assault Terminators with SS+Thunderhammer = 235p

Same as above but way more durable but also way harder to get into melee

 

Landraider (version with 2x Twin Lascannons) = 356p

Really not recommended due the point costs, however more assault-y than the Predator due its transport capacity

 

The Stormraven with Twin multi-melta, Twin Lascannon and 2x Stormstrike missile launcher = 338p

Fast, can transport your guys, has a lot of firepower (tho probably not the best loadout overall), can't get attacked in melee except for units with the FLY keyword, -1 to hit if your opponent tries to shoot at it without anti-air weaponry.

However also very expensive for a 750p list and could be seen as a bit cheesy since most 750p are unlikely to have anything against it.

 

 

In comparison:

5 Devatators with 4 Lascannons and an Armorium Cherub = 170p

Can stay back in safety, possibly in cover. Are far enough away to shoot without being in danger to get counter charged. Have their full damage potential without having to be in half range of their weapon. More likely to wound T8 tanks than Melta thanks to S9.

 

1 Predator with 4 Lascannons = 202p

Same as Devastators but more resilient against non-anti tank shooting (should also cost 12p less which is hopefully just a copy&paste error in our Codex)

Edited December 16, 2017 by sfPanzer

[SmiteThemAll]

The danger of company vet is that you have to rely on the flowchart to use index version of it.

 

Company vet with stormbolter and chainsword is super good and effective. I love this unit.

 

By honour guard I guess you mean sanguinary guard ? If so it’s a great unit to pair with a lieutenant warlord. Be sure you give them some encarmine axe or power fist to help taking down vehicles. They look like they will be you main antitank and even at 750 point a few Leman Russ can show up.

What flowchart ? Can I not just use the index entry ?  Maybe take a picture of the entry for easy access during games?

 

and yea I mean sanguinary guard, sorry about that. 

 

Which regards to anti tank, do you think some combi-meltas or Infernus pistols on characters would help?

[Panzer]

 

The danger of company vet is that you have to rely on the flowchart to use index version of it.

 

Company vet with stormbolter and chainsword is super good and effective. I love this unit.

 

By honour guard I guess you mean sanguinary guard ? If so it’s a great unit to pair with a lieutenant warlord. Be sure you give them some encarmine axe or power fist to help taking down vehicles. They look like they will be you main antitank and even at 750 point a few Leman Russ can show up.

What flowchart ? Can I not just use the index entry ?  Maybe take a picture of the entry for easy access during games?

 

and yea I mean sanguinary guard, sorry about that. 

 

Which regards to anti tank, do you think some combi-meltas or Infernus pistols on characters would help?

 

Yes he's refering to the flowchart that allows us to use the Index entry. ;)

[Brother Crimson]

Yeah, to be more precise the flow chart that let us use the index war gear selection.

 

As for antitank meltagun assault squad or company Veterans can work. infernos pistol lack range to be fired out of deep strike.

[9x19 Parabellum]

As I originally mentioned (and as others have now explained), Company Vets with jump packs are NOT in our Codex.  Likewise for Sanguinary Priest with jump pack.

 

The GW flowchart faq says that you can use models not in the Codex if the gear options are present in the Index. However, some of us, myself included, are concerned that that might be a temporary allowance until all codex's are done, or new kits come out, at which point that provision will go away.

 

I'm also a bit of a 'purist' (not sure that's the right word, but it will do for now) and I don't like using anything NOT in my official Blood Angels codex (so, no Index loopholes for me, or really even other allied stuff, and no Forgeworld)

Edited December 16, 2017 by 9x19 Parabellum