New Beta Rules

[TheShredder]

In case anyone is interested:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/15/the-future-of-faqs-and-chapter-approved-dec-15gw-homepage-post-2/

 

 

Boy am I glad Astropaths doubled in cost, only to have Smite nerfed to hell anyway. 

 

[Tirak]

Not that I don't agree that the Astropath nerf sucks, but if you're smiting with them something has gone horribly wrong.

[Withershadow]

Their other abilities are also screwed, because you can only attempt each power once, so so much for giving one the shroud and also giving it to a Primaris as backup. Basically just pay the extra 17 or whatever points for a Primaris Psyker.

[TheShredder]

Not that I don't agree that the Astropath nerf sucks, but if you're smiting with them something has gone horribly wrong.

 

Well, that was certainly what people were winging about prior to their cost getting doubled. 

[narcolepticltd]

Yet more changes to stuff that was just released in print weeks ago? Wow. Yeah I'm definitely not going to bother actually playing 40k... I'll just stick to modelling. That saves me a ton and I can just build what looks cool. Too many fixes for the fixes that fix the fixes. Done.

[Imperator Deus]

Yet more changes to stuff that was just released in print weeks ago? Wow. Yeah I'm definitely not going to bother actually playing 40k... I'll just stick to modelling. That saves me a ton and I can just build what looks cool. Too many fixes for the fixes that fix the fixes. Done.

Sometimes I feel the same way, lol! Hopefully with GW's new plan in place for FAQs, things will start to stabilize. I'm really getting tired of having to constantly re-write my lists and having to drop units every few weeks, because they've been nerfed so hard. If they're true to their word, there shouldn't be any more changes until March when the next batch of FAQs drops.

 

I'm disappointed to see GW is as clumsy as ever with their "fixes." Rather than dealing with the Psyker spam that is the real problem with Smite, it appears that their solution disproportionately punishes Grey Knights players. If this rule sticks, I would hope that Grey Knights get a little cheaper in March, since presumably their ability to cast a reduced Smite was built into their cost. 

 

Would a better solution be to remove the Supreme Command detachment from the game? Does anyone ever use it for anything other than spamming Primaris Psykers and Malefic Lords? I rarely ever take more than 3 or 4 HQs in any of my armies (Guard or otherwise), which fits easily in a Batallion or Brigade. I'm not overly familiar with armies that I don't play; are there any armies out there that would reasonably need to take advantage of the Supreme Command detachment for any reason other than psyker spam?

[Halfpint100]

The supreme command is the only way to get a regiment suet heavy unless you take 3 of them.

 

These changes IMO, make sense. They are just being tested now though, probably won't be released until March, if at all

[Feral_80]

I like this fix for once.

On the other hand, it's also good to see that the tiny CA FAQ just clarified that Character targeting had been just written poorly and it was still meant to differentiate characters with a W *characteristic* of 10+, not with just 10+ W. Which also shows the incredible carelessness GW has put in rewriting such an important rule, as usual.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Feral_80

[duz_]

I like these changes as it directly addresses the spam and abuse of those two rules.

I saw a player just last night gleefully being a jerk to his opponent with his assassin spam list. His face changed when I told him about the beta rules.

 

The smite changes do hurt mini smite guys too and I can understand the frustration. However having only really lost to my friends smite spam GKs I dont feel too bad lots of mini smite spam is just as rough as regular smite.

 

Also given smite is a 5+ base you get ~3 attempts before it starts to get difficult. If those are all successful you've done 3D3 mortal wounds.

 

The game is more than mortal wound spam.

[TheShredder]

Also given smite is a 5+ base you get ~3 attempts before it starts to get difficult. If those are all successful you've done 3D3 mortal wounds.

 

The game is more than mortal wound spam.

 

I think you missed my point.

 

My complaint wasn't with this change to Smite. My complaint was that they doubled the cost of Astropaths to reduce Smite spam, only to then implement this anyway.

[Withershadow]

Really? 3 attempts is “before it gets difficult”? A 50/50 or worse chance is considered easy? They just need to change how mortal wounds work since there are non-psychic ways to spam them, and the mini-smites should be excluded. They are only an issue when used by GK vs daemons, and if you can’t stomach that fluff-induced advantage while praying at the altar of imaginary balance, we are playing completely different games for completely different reasons.

[OnboardG1]

I feel like I'm in danger of a coronary with all the salt here.

 

The changes are good. Smite spam was annoying and I suspect they'll adjust mini smite to become a new power or something to avoid it. Thats great for guard since MW spam is the best way to evaporate our tanks and Bullgryns.

[duz_]

I would say a 50% chance to do up to 6 automatic wounds (per casting!) to most units in the game regardless of toughness and invul saves is pretty damn good

 

Id rather see more variety of units on the table than psykers spamming what has become a crutch power.

[Imperator Deus]

My beef isn't so much about how hard or easy it is to spam Smite with Grey Knights, I haven't played against GKs in 8th yet, so I couldn't say how big of a deal it is. My complaint is that it seems like all the problems in the game so far seem to revolve around spamming certain units especially in soup lists. Rather than trying to deal with that they punish players who play fluffy lists using only their own armies. Bubble wrapping Guiliman in Commissar backed Conscripts is why they were nerfed. The soup players weren't really effected by this change, they'll just move on to the next broken combo, that fix only punishes Guard players who want to use Commissars and Conscripts.

 

I think the Smite fix punishes Grey Knights because the ability for all of their units to cast a reduced version of Smite is what makes them unique among the other Space Marine chapters. As I said, I haven't played against GKs yet this edition, but I haven't been reading any complaints about how OP GK micro-Smite is. That leads me to believe that it wasn't a problem. The problem is the people taking a dozen or more cheap psykers and spamming full-powered Smites all over the place, and now the GKs are paying the price for those players.

 

 

 

My complaint wasn't with this change to Smite. My complaint was that they doubled the cost of Astropaths to reduce Smite spam, only to then implement this anyway.

 

This is also a consistent problem with the fixes for this edition, they don't just nerf things once, they stack them! look at Conscripts, they got nerfed in the Codex (which I thought that was a reasonable fix), then they nerfed Commissars, then they increased the price of Conscripts. Why the 3 rounds of nerfs? Any one of those is enough. It's even more confusing when it comes to Astropaths. People weren't using them for Smite spam, that's what they were using Primaris Psykers for. Why even increase the points cost in the first place, especially by that much when the Smite change was coming down the pike?

 

The supreme command is the only way to get a regiment suet heavy unless you take 3 of them.

These changes IMO, make sense. They are just being tested now though, probably won't be released until March, if at all

That's not true. You can take a Super Heavy with a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment. That lets you take a single Lord of War. It's true you don't gain any CPs that way, but you don't lose any either. There's nothing stopping you from taking a Shadowsword as a Super Heavy Auxiliary and applying a regiment keyword to it, just like you can take two Batallions of infantry and give both of them the Cadian keyword for example.

[Schlitzaf]

GK get a plus 1 on casting as well. So it’s 4-5-6-7. So it’s 4 good tries. Atleast for GK

[Tallarn Commander]

For whar it's worth, I'm glad to see the smite debuff.

[Halfpint100]

 

 

The supreme command is the only way to get a regiment suet heavy unless you take 3 of them.

 

These changes IMO, make sense. They are just being tested now though, probably won't be released until March, if at all

That's not true. You can take a Super Heavy with a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment. That lets you take a single Lord of War. It's true you don't gain any CPs that way, but you don't lose any either. There's nothing stopping you from taking a Shadowsword as a Super Heavy Auxiliary and applying a regiment keyword to it, just like you can take two Batallions of infantry and give both of them the Cadian keyword for example.

Look at the regiment rule in the codex. It states that units in a auxiliary superheavy detachment do not gain a regiment. It sucks, but it is there. Edited December 17, 2017 by Halfpint100

[Withershadow]

Anything more than like a 5 is not really good, it’s more and more akin to a coin toss. Sadly we don’t have boosts in this game. :P

 

That's not true. You can take a Super Heavy with a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment. That lets you take a single Lord of War. It's true you don't gain any CPs that way, but you don't lose any either. There's nothing stopping you from taking a Shadowsword as a Super Heavy Auxiliary and applying a regiment keyword to it, just like you can take two Batallions of infantry and give both of them the Cadian keyword for example.

Nothing stopping you... except those dastardly rules. It’s easy to miss, but the super heavy auxiliary detachment does not qualify for a regimental doctrine.

 

Dang, ninjaed

Edited December 17, 2017 by Withershadow

[Imperator Deus]

 

 

The supreme command is the only way to get a regiment suet heavy unless you take 3 of them.

 

These changes IMO, make sense. They are just being tested now though, probably won't be released until March, if at all

That's not true. You can take a Super Heavy with a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment. That lets you take a single Lord of War. It's true you don't gain any CPs that way, but you don't lose any either. There's nothing stopping you from taking a Shadowsword as a Super Heavy Auxiliary and applying a regiment keyword to it, just like you can take two Batallions of infantry and give both of them the Cadian keyword for example.

Look at the regiment rule in the codex. It states that units in a auxiliary superheavy detachment do not gain a regiment. It sucks, but it is there.

 

Whelp, I owe you guys an apology, lol. I missed that somehow. I can't see why they would put that restriction in there. Anybody have any ideas?

[micahwc]

Probably so you don't get regimental bonuses on your warhound titan

[Halfpint100]

 

 

 

 

The supreme command is the only way to get a regiment suet heavy unless you take 3 of them.

 

These changes IMO, make sense. They are just being tested now though, probably won't be released until March, if at all

That's not true. You can take a Super Heavy with a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment. That lets you take a single Lord of War. It's true you don't gain any CPs that way, but you don't lose any either. There's nothing stopping you from taking a Shadowsword as a Super Heavy Auxiliary and applying a regiment keyword to it, just like you can take two Batallions of infantry and give both of them the Cadian keyword for example.

Look at the regiment rule in the codex. It states that units in a auxiliary superheavy detachment do not gain a regiment. It sucks, but it is there.

Whelp, I owe you guys an apology, lol. I missed that somehow. I can't see why they would put that restriction in there. Anybody have any ideas?

No worries. It is hidden away in there, I have no idea why. Maybe to sell more kits?

[CoffeeGrunt]

To stop people spamming Superheavies.

[olcottr]

The Smite nerf was probably get more players to get Blood Angels for the Blood Boil power.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Well no, because you can only attempt that power once.

[olcottr]

That's my point.  Powers like Blood Boil are just different forms of Smite that can only be used once/turn, which is why GW nerfed Smite to make the "Smite-like" attractive.