Charlo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 they need to make conversion lists so those of us in 40k communities can play our armies again. If you look really hard, you might just find a full set of 7th edition rules for every other army continue to exist! Fancy that eh? All you need to do is play using the AoD Force Org chart without any formations and use the new Heresy rulebook. ==== FW owes no one anything. Especially not wasting time converting irrelevant 40k armies (Xenos, IG etc) into a 30k format. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 they need to make conversion lists so those of us in 40k communities can play our armies again. If you look really hard, you might just find a full set of 7th edition rules for every other army continue to exist! Fancy that eh? All you need to do is play using the AoD Force Org chart without any formations and use the new Heresy rulebook. ==== FW owes no one anything. Especially not wasting time converting irrelevant 40k armies (Xenos, IG etc) into a 30k format. I think he meant a conversion list from 7th to 8th, not the other way around. But we already have , as Marshal Rohr mentioned, the ability to convert HH armies to 8th simply by using Codex: Space Marines and IA: Adeptus Astartes. There's even profiles and points for some volkite weapons. I successfully use my HH Ultramarines in 8th edition using this method (the only real major counts as for me is fulmentarus counting as devastator centurions). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Rune, if you use the cost of a reaper from Codex chaos you could probably run them as close to the Heresy entry as possible. I’m working on a list right now using the point indices to convert between 7th and 8th. Some of the Heresy stuff ends up being a bit pricier than their Heresy incarnations, but if you play Heresy on Heresy it balances out nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Yes and no. My Perturabo is limited to just being a schmoe Daemon prince as there is no other way to represent him. Glaives and volkite are not available for the most part, I think only mechanicus has it. Tyrants are not available. Many of the 30k specific rules are not there and the chaos codex is a joke when it comes to rules other than Alpha Legion which is the go to for everyone because they are so good and nothing like 30k's. As to loyalists, how are your 20 man fury of the legion tactical squads doing? I can pull it off in chaos but I have to mark them as Slaanesh and spend a command point to do it and it means I am not doing it with a havoc squad. One book or PDF even. All that's needed and the 7e 30k guys can go play their game and the 8e 30k guys can go back to playing ours thus instantly increasing the 30k population again. We can even use the same black books for fluff and scenarios thus selling more books. Why is that such a hard concept for people to understand without getting all pissy and derogatory? It doesn't threaten your game and only increases the player base. Its win win for everyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Yes and no. My Perturabo is limited to just being a schmoe Daemon prince as there is no other way to represent him. Glaives and volkite are not available for the most part, I think only mechanicus has it. Tyrants are not available. Many of the 30k specific rules are not there and the chaos codex is a joke when it comes to rules other than Alpha Legion which is the go to for everyone because they are so good and nothing like 30k's. As to loyalists, how are your 20 man pride of the legion tactical squads doing? I can pull it off in chaos but I have to mark them as Slaanesh and spend a command point to do it and it means I am not doing it with a havoc squad. One book or PDF even. All that's needed and the 7e 30k guys can go play their game and the 8e 30k guys can go back to playing ours thus instantly increasing the 30k population again. We can even use the same black books for fluff and scenarios thus selling more books. Why is that such a hard concept for people to understand without getting all pissy and derogatory? It doesn't threaten your game and only increases the player base. Its win win for everyone. That’s your problem. You need someone to hold your hand. How many marines are in a PotL tactical squad? 20 in this example. How many points is a marine? 13. So doing some math, 20 marines is 260 points. You don’t have to worry about special rules. Legion rules replace ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics. Viola. Problem solved. Wanna give the sergeant a power sword? Use the codex marine points cost. It’s really not that god :cuss hard. If you want official 8th rules, jog on. It’s not happening for a while. You have all the tools you need to play 8th with your army. You just aren’t even trying. You want it spoon fed to you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 I am okay with sticking with the 7th edition ruleset - I would just like to see FW start releasing new kit again. For example SW have been on the short end of the stick and could use some love imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 So make stuff up is what you are saying? Because you will get a lot of games in that way. You are ridiculous. The OP question here was how to bring 30k back and you advocate making up home brew stuff that most groups and even fewer stores will allow. Once again, mention bringing the game forward out of your comfort areas(even if it doesn't threaten the 7e guys) and the elitists slime their way out of their mom's basement in protest. Why not an official PDF instead which will make legit lists instead of homebrew? Hell, even FW acknowledging those guys who did in fact come up with fairly good 8th rules and say "They are legitimate rules until we get around to writing our official version," would be enough and you will start to see 30k players dusting off their Legions again. Contrary to what a few facebook groups and people in Europe say, 30k as a community is dead here in the States or at least the south east. The vast majority of 30k players in the US were either solo or a couple players who played normally vs 40k armies in their local areas and they are the ones that 8th edition hit the most. 99% of players are not buying multi-hundred dollar plane tickets to fly to events half way around the country. I consider driving more than an hour for a game to be too much counting tolls and gas prices and feel fortunate I have a store 40 minutes away by highway. The fact that army lists used to be 100% interchangeable helped grow the 30k crowd before and built interest. They played local at their stores and sometimes at their friend's houses. Now asking different friends to spend massive amounts of money on new armies for an old rules set, when they already have armies for the current system, just so they can only play each other is simply not an option for most of us. If you have that much disposable income then more power to you. Again, most of us don't care if they continue supporting 7th. We may think its a failure of a business model with the massive popularity and continued growth of 40k since 8th came out, but you can play whatever edition you want. Whatever works for you. But its our game too and you elitists are not more deserving or better than us despite what you think. Want to bring 30k back, put out an official army and legion list for 8th or officialize the homebrew that one group did. That way we are all happy and can push our little marines around and not just a small select few who are only a quick train hop away from each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I am okay with sticking with the 7th edition ruleset - I would just like to see FW start releasing new kit again. For example SW have been on the short end of the stick and could use some love imo. I agree with you there, one of the issues stifling my HH enthusiasm atm is the lack of Wolves kits. I got super hyped by Inferno's release, really draining interest in my other HH projects...that hasn't really changed as FW still refuses to release much of anything for the Wolves... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 So make stuff up is what you are saying? Because you will get a lot of games in that way. You are ridiculous. The OP question here was how to bring 30k back and you advocate making up home brew stuff that most groups and even fewer stores will allow. Once again, mention bringing the game forward out of your comfort areas(even if it doesn't threaten the 7e guys) and the elitists slime their way out of their mom's basement in protest. Why not an official PDF instead which will make legit lists instead of homebrew? Hell, even FW acknowledging those guys who did in fact come up with fairly good 8th rules and say "They are legitimate rules until we get around to writing our official version," would be enough and you will start to see 30k players dusting off their Legions again. Contrary to what a few facebook groups and people in Europe say, 30k as a community is dead here in the States or at least the south east. The vast majority of 30k players in the US were either solo or a couple players who played normally vs 40k armies in their local areas and they are the ones that 8th edition hit the most. 99% of players are not buying multi-hundred dollar plane tickets to fly to events half way around the country. I consider driving more than an hour for a game to be too much counting tolls and gas prices and feel fortunate I have a store 40 minutes away by highway. The fact that army lists used to be 100% interchangeable helped grow the 30k crowd before and built interest. They played local at their stores and sometimes at their friend's houses. Now asking different friends to spend massive amounts of money on new armies for an old rules set, when they already have armies for the current system, just so they can only play each other is simply not an option for most of us. If you have that much disposable income then more power to you. Again, most of us don't care if they continue supporting 7th. We may think its a failure of a business model with the massive popularity and continued growth of 40k since 8th came out, but you can play whatever edition you want. Whatever works for you. But its our game too and you elitists are not more deserving or better than us despite what you think. Want to bring 30k back, put out an official army and legion list for 8th or officialize the homebrew that one group did. That way we are all happy and can push our little marines around and not just a small select few who are only a quick train hop away from each other. I'm not saying I wouldn't appreciate an "official" 8th edition HH rules pdf (though I actually do like having two different rules systems, changing from one to the other keeps things fresh for me), but I do think that using C:SM and IA: FotAA (or C:SCM and IA:FoC) is more than sufficient to field your HH models against 40k armies if you so desire. Is it a perfect solution? no. But it works well enough for myself. That's just my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 It’s not making anything up. It’s using actual GW issued points lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 I would prefer if HH was aligned with 8th edition and think there are some misconceptions about the new edition. It is really fun, well designed and more balanced imo . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I notice Europe and hive cities tend to still have communities. You ever think its because your areas are the size of a large neighborhoods and not hours long drives to get to the next population center? You walk for ten minutes in Europe and you are in the next country over, so yeah, your gaming communities are going to be far more interconnected. Not sure if you're high, joking or just extremely uneducated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijamon Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I would prefer if HH was aligned with 8th edition and think there are some misconceptions about the new edition. It is really fun, well designed and more balanced imo . The problem is that there is no right or wrong. Anyone who says one edition is 100% better is just a liar, simple as that. Both have good bits and both have bad bits. It's okay to have a preference. Mine is 7th because it offers me a greater depth of game. It doesn't mean I'm better than you or righter than you or a bigger fan. I just like something different to what you like. That's okay, we don't have to fight about it. However, I don't think you can say 8th is more balanced because Games Workshop don't make a balanced game, it's impossible. Once more Codexes are out it'll just be the same as it always was. Even if GW made the perfect balanced game somehow, gamers will find the exploits. It's inevitable. We as a hobby group ruin the game, not GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Yup. 8th has it's own problems with balance and mechanics and in some cases they are more ridiculous than anything in 7th. My opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Some 7th problems: Strength D, Death Stars, Stomps All of these things are fixed in 8th edition. If you say 8th edition has balance issues what are some good examples ? GW development is closely following the game now to address issues such as Smite spam. Like I said when all the codices are released I think most people will see the new edition is overall very balanced - internally and externally. So far every codex released is good but not over the top. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 There is also the good work in the heresy30k.invisionzone.com forums on 8th edition 30k, which does a quite serious job at converting the rule sets. You should all check it out if you don't know it - although some of you do :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Some 7th problems: Strength D, Death Stars, Stomps All of these things are fixed in 8th edition. If you say 8th edition has balance issues what are some good examples ? GW development is closely following the game now to address issues such as Smite spam. Like I said when all the codices are released I think most people will see the new edition is overall very balanced - internally and externally. So far every codex released is good but not over the top. We have to disagree then, because the books so far have pretty awful internal balance, with a clear "best" choice (usually the -1 to hit one). D is modified in 30K, death stars are limited to Primarch+bodyguard, and stomps are not a problem when knights evaporate to meltas and grav. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreagher Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Some 7th problems: Strength D, Death Stars, Stomps All of these things are fixed in 8th edition. If you say 8th edition has balance issues what are some good examples ? GW development is closely following the game now to address issues such as Smite spam. Like I said when all the codices are released I think most people will see the new edition is overall very balanced - internally and externally. So far every codex released is good but not over the top. What I hear, most grey knight players would dissagree... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Some 7th problems: Strength D, Death Stars, Stomps All of these things are fixed in 8th edition. If you say 8th edition has balance issues what are some good examples ? GW development is closely following the game now to address issues such as Smite spam. Like I said when all the codices are released I think most people will see the new edition is overall very balanced - internally and externally. So far every codex released is good but not over the top. Ok, I can see your problem. You're bringing 7th edition problems that belonged solely to 40k not 30k. For example: Did you experience D problem in HH? Tell us about it. Because only superheavies have D in AoD. Death Stars in HH are: 1) expensive 2) not as broken as in 7th 40k. Also there are balance issuess, go to GK forum for example and see how people enjoy their "new codex". Also you start to sound like Ishagu in your praise of 8th edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 There are always some players that are unhappy and that will never change. I have seen GK do well and they have the Nemesis dreadknight Grand Master which is really cool. I do think Orks need some love but that will prolly be addressed in their codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 "Ok, I can see your problem. You're bringing 7th edition problems that belonged solely to 40k not 30k. For example: Did you experience D problem in HH? Tell us about it. Because only superheavies have D in AoD. Death Stars in HH are: 1) expensive 2) not as broken as in 7th 40k." There are people that bring Knight armies or lots o Knights... you can say they are easy to handle but I will disagree unless you are heavily list tailoring. Also HH has things like Phosphex quad launchers that some players absolutely abhor coz they like to run infantry heavy armies and not mech up. We should be honest and admit kSons and Custodes are a new top tier now as well. 'Also there are balance issuess, go to GK forum for example and see how people enjoy their "new codex". Also you start to sound like Ishagu in your praise of 8th edition.' Like I said there are always some that are never going to be happy. I have no problems with 8th and enjoy it - overall it is a much better edition imo... 7th works for HH solely because of internal balance but you do still have some issues like I mentioned already then there are things like Scoria too . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
civsmitty Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Some 7th problems: Strength D, Death Stars, Stomps All of these things are fixed in 8th edition. If you say 8th edition has balance issues what are some good examples ? GW development is closely following the game now to address issues such as Smite spam. Like I said when all the codices are released I think most people will see the new edition is overall very balanced - internally and externally. So far every codex released is good but not over the top. Strength D: Optional rules exist and have always existed in the HH for not having them be auto-kill weapons. I've used them, they're nice. FW provided them as long as I've been in this game. Deathstars: Product of the codexes, NOT the BRB. That's where the issues with 7th came from, codexes, the strange Gladius builds, unlimited allies, and formations. That's the rules bloat, that's the strange overlapping rules (which, hey, have NOT GONE AWAY). Stomps: I admit, I have no experience with this. I ran like a Night Lord from stompy things. 8ed, while fun, won't do anything for Heresy. There's no real reason to port it over, and I'm including "playing 30k against 40k armies" (which, just play 40k) or "I don't like remembering two sets of rules" (not FW's problem). As to how to bring back 30k...keep playing it. Bring your best army with a fun opponent, fully painted armies, and showcase what they can do. Post pictures of your completed works on your local FB pages, including games. Don't dump on new players about plastic v resin, inform them they can get a decent starter army on the cheap. Don't bring up "unit XYZ is SO BAD", encourage that Rule of Cool dominates all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Aaaand we’re just back to 7th vs 8th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
civsmitty Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Aaaand we’re just back to 7th vs 8th. Unfortunately it's inevitable. Some people truly consider 8ed to be how to "fix" 30k. Other people disagree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I don't think I need to mention why this topic got locked since I've already said so in at least two other topics before that everyone here has participated in to some extent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342492-bringing-back-30k/page/2/#findComment-4965675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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