Growing weary of the 8th edition lore

[Master Commander Ajax]

 

 

- Juvenat treatments have existed for a long time in 40k, many high-ranking Imperial officials can be 200/300 years old.

 

Yup, though the treatment is prohibitively expensive for most and whilst many mortal Characters seem important to us they are far below the notice of the higher Imperium in the setting.

 

 

 

- So, because they haven't addressed a rumour, they're at fault? Nothing has ever officially hinted that Space Marines can be 'upgraded'. This is a new creation process, so unless the Marine is implanted with the new ones at the beginning, he's a standard Marine. Until stated otherwise, we assume that it works that way. Anything else is conjecture.

 

It was said at one point that they could be upgraded. I don't think there is any deliberate mystery about it, I think that GW doesn't have an answer yet.

 

 

 

- The warp travel happens the exact same way warp travel occurred before the Astronomicon was created? You do realise it's not a requirement, right? Humanity managed to use warp travel to conquer the galaxy in the Dark Age of Technology, all without the Astronomicon. It just means they can't make jumps quite as long.

 

Warp travel is almost impossibly dangerous without the light of the Astronomican, it effectively sets the borders of the Imperium. Even 'small' jumps are incredibly risky (distance and time are subjective in the warp). With the growing power of Chaos, it would seem that travel would be more perilous than ever.

 

I guess whether you think these things are important or not comes down to personal interpretation. I, however, do not believe that GW had a plan for any of these changes beyond "We/Black Libary will flesh it out later". 

[m0nolith]

I really wish someone at GW would go though this thread and look at the disparity in likes between posts that praise the new lore and those that don’t.

It seems that for every person that likes this new direction, there are three that don’t.

[Zebulon]

Yeah, I don’t really play much so I am not that bothered about rules changes and all that.

 

I do however enjoy collecting and painting the models, and I do like a good story, setting and plot.

 

As such, I have to agree with all the posters saying that the implementation of Primaris marines, return of Guilliman and introduction of Cawl is weak sauce, and frankly is insulting to our intelligence.

 

Meanwhile I greatly enjoyed the diversity of models available; the BA and DA ranges being particularly representative of this. I can’t help feeling that the new releases are very bland and lacking in differentiation. It’s a bit like going from a choice of orange juice, apple juice or cranberry juice to a choice of fizzy water with different food colourings. Not sure that’s the best analogy but it’s late...

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

 

 

- Juvenat treatments have existed for a long time in 40k, many high-ranking Imperial officials can be 200/300 years old.

 

Yup, though the treatment is prohibitively expensive for most and whilst many mortal Characters seem important to us they are far below the notice of the higher Imperium in the setting.

 

Then there's also the fact that the Warp distorts time. It's not a perfect answer, but again, it's hardly without precedent. You've also got the fact of the uproar that would be caused if GW came out and said "OK, 8th Edition is here. The following special characters are now dead, and can no longer be used...

 

 

 

- So, because they haven't addressed a rumour, they're at fault? Nothing has ever officially hinted that Space Marines can be 'upgraded'. This is a new creation process, so unless the Marine is implanted with the new ones at the beginning, he's a standard Marine. Until stated otherwise, we assume that it works that way. Anything else is conjecture.

 

It was said at one point that they could be upgraded. I don't think there is any deliberate mystery about it, I think that GW doesn't have an answer yet.

 

Did they though? Where? Rumours at one point said that, I don't recall anything stated by GW that they could be upgraded.

 

 

 

- The warp travel happens the exact same way warp travel occurred before the Astronomicon was created? You do realise it's not a requirement, right? Humanity managed to use warp travel to conquer the galaxy in the Dark Age of Technology, all without the Astronomicon. It just means they can't make jumps quite as long.

 

Warp travel is almost impossibly dangerous without the light of the Astronomican, it effectively sets the borders of the Imperium. Even 'small' jumps are incredibly risky (distance and time are subjective in the warp). With the growing power of Chaos, it would seem that travel would be more perilous than ever.

 

Again, the human colonization of the galaxy occurred without the Astronomican, as did the creation of the Navigator gene. Humanity existed as a functional empire without the Astronomican. Chaos and the Orks don't use the Astronomican either. It's an incredibly helpful tool, but it's far from necessary. What it allows is longer guided jumps, as it provides a point of reference. Shorter jumps are still entirely possible without much change in safety, it just takes longer. Hell, it's possible to make incredibly shallow warp jumps without even having a Navigator capable of witnessing the presence or lack of the Astronomican, it just takes even longer, due to the even shorter 'hops', like the Tau do.

Warp travel is slowed, and would be more dangerous in the Imperium Nihilus, but it's most certainly not stopped entirely.

 

I guess whether you think these things are important or not comes down to personal interpretation. I, however, do not believe that GW had a plan for any of these changes beyond "We/Black Libary will flesh it out later". 

 

You said there's no "good explanation" for these three questions. One is arguable, one you're basing off unconfirmed rumours, and the last has existing explanations in the background that you're choosing to ignore because it's not explicitly spelled out.

 

I really wish someone at GW would go though this thread and look at the disparity in likes between posts that praise the new lore and those that don’t.

It seems that for every person that likes this new direction, there are three that don’t.

 

I would argue that people tend to be more vocal about things they dislike than things they do. This is probably part of the reason they've held that big survey thing, to get a more accurate gauge than "there are more people angrily ranting on the internet than saying things are fine", because there are always more people angrily ranting on the internet about things than there are praising them, it's basically the first rule of the internet.

 

 

[Doghouse]

 

-The lack of any explanation as to why mortal characters are alive and well despite the setting moving forward one hundred years. 

 

That's quite an interesting point actually I hadn't thought about. There are a number of reasonable explanations but they all feel a bit cheap, rejuvenate treatments, were in warp travel, the new time dilemma, etc. They're all plausible but feel a bit tacky and convenient, like the old lost in the warp thing, I'd rather have solid explanations.

[m0nolith]

 

 

I really wish someone at GW would go though this thread and look at the disparity in likes between posts that praise the new lore and those that don’t.

It seems that for every person that likes this new direction, there are three that don’t.

 

I would argue that people tend to be more vocal about things they dislike than things they do. This is probably part of the reason they've held that big survey thing, to get a more accurate gauge than "there are more people angrily ranting on the internet than saying things are fine", because there are always more people angrily ranting on the internet about things than there are praising them, it's basically the first rule of the internet.

 

 

That’s an excellent point actually, but to play devils advocate, one does not need to be vocal to hit a like button on the post they agree with.

[sockwithaticket]

I really wish someone at GW would go though this thread and look at the disparity in likes between posts that praise the new lore and those that don’t.

It seems that for every person that likes this new direction, there are three that don’t.

It's interesting. A poster in the BA sub-forum who has really bought into the Primaris was saying how he feels the negative reaction is far greater and deeper than the positive one in his gaming environment and online.

 

Of course it could be that those who do like the changes are giving the thread a wide berth and not dropping their likes on the comments not talking about all the new lore flaws.

[Bryan Blaire]

I know for me, it isn't a situation of "Like It" or "Hate It" - there are components of the new material that okay, and the same that are poor, with the rest being usual 40K fare. There's a lot that I wish was done differently, but none of it seems to engender the hatred in me that some people seem to show.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

 

 

I really wish someone at GW would go though this thread and look at the disparity in likes between posts that praise the new lore and those that don’t.

It seems that for every person that likes this new direction, there are three that don’t.

 

I would argue that people tend to be more vocal about things they dislike than things they do. This is probably part of the reason they've held that big survey thing, to get a more accurate gauge than "there are more people angrily ranting on the internet than saying things are fine", because there are always more people angrily ranting on the internet about things than there are praising them, it's basically the first rule of the internet.

 

 

That’s an excellent point actually, but to play devils advocate, one does not need to be vocal to hit a like button on the post they agree with.

 

 

No, but one does have to have read the thread, instead of being turned away by the vitriol that they fully expect the thread will contain. They could also be of the opinion that a thread such as this serves its purpose as a place for people to vent, rather than having literally every other thread turn into Primaris-bashing.

 

Seriously, the hatred that gets tossed around these threads can be truly shocking at times. I'm not the biggest fan of how things have been carried out, namely Guilliman turning up perfectly at the right time for every single event to save the day, but I actually don't mind the Primaris, and the developing story. However, some people are being scarily angry about the changes. Seriously, they're acting like GW came in and shot their dog.

[Marshal Rohr]

My dog: purebred Rhodesian ridgeback - $1500

My Black Templars - ~$3-4000

My Imperial Fists - $1800

 

They kind of did murder something I loved.

[Kinstryfe]

 

I wasn't playing the game in 5th or 6th edition, where some of the really big and cool things that people talk fondly about occurred. I can't speak to it, so I won't try. I do know several people who enjoyed those things. But that was years ago. A different time. A different king. It's very possible those who went through those releases may have to come to grips with a concept that eludes many of the older Star Wars fans: You aren't the target audience anymore. What worked then may not work now. Be kind to your new generation of players.

The people in the hobby and the attitudes they exhibit - such as how they treat their fellow hobbyists in threads like these - would be what drives me away from the hobby before any change in lore. "Lore first" means nothing in a game that take more than one person to play when the treatment by those who disagree is... Well.

40k is the people you play it with, not the models on the table.

40k is not just the models on the table, muchacho. Those Terminators on the table? They’re on borrowed time. The all Terminator Deathwing armies? Sorry, but marines wear Gravis armor now. Your tactical squads? Shove em. You entire don’t get what people are upset about if you think it’s just some bad writing people are upset about. This isn’t replacing the Empire with the first order or making the main characters of the new trilogy a black dude and a girl. This isn’t about too many corny joke in the Last Jedi. It’s that in next few cycles of codexes whole armies will be phased out in favor of these copyrightable true-scale models. Thing people have loved forever like terminators are gone and replaces with the abortions of Gravis armor kits.

NOTHING IS GONE. GW still manufactures brand spanking new old style Marines, terminators, tanks, everything. They've even said they have no intention of phasing out old style Marines, and recent BA fluff supposedly states specifically that they're still implanting both types, but people on the internet insist that they're lying and that this is all some conspiracy to.... What? What would be the point of phasing them out? They sell well enough to warrant 3 kits just for vanilla marine tactical squads. 4 kits for terminators, plus assault, Devastator, vanguard, Sternguard, and command squad kits. Plus Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Grey Knights, and Deathwatch versions of many of those same kits. At times in recent history, marine sales alone have been roughly equivalent to their sales from the entire fantasy line. So really, what's the conspiracy here? Why are old marines being phased out, but Eldar players aren't freaking out that their 3 factions are going to be phased out by a unified Ynnari? Do we really just think that GW absolutely hates making money? Or are we assuming that they want to upset every hobbyist who owns a Marine army which, since they've been in every starter box for 7 editions, is the overwhelming majority of players (even if it's not their main army)? Surely they made primaris marines so amazing that they outclass old marines in every way, except, that's not been the case according to most people who've played them. And even if this grand conspiracy is somehow true, and GW hates money and their consumer base and is just so bad at rules that they screwed up making primaris marines an instawin choice, we're talking about a change that may occur 2 or 3 editions in the future. So, 5-8 years? Xth or XIth edition?

 

This is like Ford phasing out trucks in favor of purely electric 2 door cars, Starbucks phasing out coffee and selling only tea and warm milk, or Buffalo Wild Wings dropping wings altogether and only selling burgers. Yeah, all of these things are technically options, but there's no upside for the companies making those decisions...

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

I wasn't playing the game in 5th or 6th edition, where some of the really big and cool things that people talk fondly about occurred. I can't speak to it, so I won't try. I do know several people who enjoyed those things. But that was years ago. A different time. A different king. It's very possible those who went through those releases may have to come to grips with a concept that eludes many of the older Star Wars fans: You aren't the target audience anymore. What worked then may not work now. Be kind to your new generation of players.

The people in the hobby and the attitudes they exhibit - such as how they treat their fellow hobbyists in threads like these - would be what drives me away from the hobby before any change in lore. "Lore first" means nothing in a game that take more than one person to play when the treatment by those who disagree is... Well.

40k is the people you play it with, not the models on the table.

40k is not just the models on the table, muchacho. Those Terminators on the table? They’re on borrowed time. The all Terminator Deathwing armies? Sorry, but marines wear Gravis armor now. Your tactical squads? Shove em. You entire don’t get what people are upset about if you think it’s just some bad writing people are upset about. This isn’t replacing the Empire with the first order or making the main characters of the new trilogy a black dude and a girl. This isn’t about too many corny joke in the Last Jedi. It’s that in next few cycles of codexes whole armies will be phased out in favor of these copyrightable true-scale models. Thing people have loved forever like terminators are gone and replaces with the abortions of Gravis armor kits.

NOTHING IS GONE. GW still manufactures brand spanking new old style Marines, terminators, tanks, everything. They've even said they have no intention of phasing out old style Marines, and recent BA fluff supposedly states specifically that they're still implanting both types, but people on the internet insist that they're lying and that this is all some conspiracy to.... What? What would be the point of phasing them out? They sell well enough to warrant 3 kits just for vanilla marine tactical squads. 4 kits for terminators, plus assault, Devastator, vanguard, Sternguard, and command squad kits. Plus Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Grey Knights, and Deathwatch versions of many of those same kits. At times in recent history, marine sales alone have been roughly equivalent to their sales from the entire fantasy line. So really, what's the conspiracy here? Why are old marines being phased out, but Eldar players aren't freaking out that their 3 factions are going to be phased out by a unified Ynnari? Do we really just think that GW absolutely hates making money? Or are we assuming that they want to upset every hobbyist who owns a Marine army which, since they've been in every starter box for 7 editions, is the overwhelming majority of players (even if it's not their main army)? Surely they made primaris marines so amazing that they outclass old marines in every way, except, that's not been the case according to most people who've played them. And even if this grand conspiracy is somehow true, and GW hates money and their consumer base and is just so bad at rules that they screwed up making primaris marines an instawin choice, we're talking about a change that may occur 2 or 3 editions in the future. So, 5-8 years? Xth or XIth edition?

 

This is like Ford phasing out trucks in favor of purely electric 2 door cars, Starbucks phasing out coffee and selling only tea and warm milk, or Buffalo Wild Wings dropping wings altogether and only selling burgers. Yeah, all of these things are technically options, but there's no upside for the companies making those decisions...

:|

 

Time will tell

[Lexington]

What's going on with 8th Ed isn't anything special or new - it's just the first time the modern Studio has gotten to make a 40K that's not piggybacking on what came before. Turns out, they're bad at it. Really bad, even!
 
There's a lot of talk here (and, honestly, anywhere you get people talking about the Dark Imperium) about "darkness" and "hope" as if they're a stand-in framework for old and new 40K background, but that's all nonsense. They're both irrelevant to 40K as a whole, and equally terrible as core values of the setting. If you sat Andy Chambers or Rick Priestley or any other original architect of 40K down and asked them to choose a side there, I'd bet actual human money that they'd screw up their eyes, frown and tell you that you're missing the point by several nautical miles. 40K, at its best, never strove to be dark. It didn't strive for anything, really! It was just fun science fiction written to sell some miniatures, and only ever made sense when you didn't look at it too hard or too directly. Which is fine since, again, that's not the point.
 
The point of 40K, at its best times, was that it was interesting, engaging and felt real.* Not real in that tiresome, laborious sense of so much "serious" superhero movie trash or anything, but real in the way of scope and breadth, where the universe really was as big and varied as humanity. There was a bigger world beyond the tabletop, where both people and aliens had lives and concerns that didn't touch war at all - even Orks had a fun, lazy "kultur" that made them feel like a real species, rather than a bunch of 'roided up space gorillas on a permanent anger high. There was still the lofty narrative of the Heresy, the Primarchs and the Long War of the Traitor Legions, but it didn't completely overwhelm the whole setting like it does today. It was a component, an interesting origin story for a setting, but not hugely relevant to current events, because things that happened ten millennia ago are rarely relevant to anyone, ever. None of this was stated in any big or obvious way - these were just the base assumptions, the background noise of the setting. It didn't feel much like it could be any other way.
 
All of this came, I'd wager, because those long-ago creators of 40K read and lived broadly, and had a feel for the world at a lot of different levels. By comparison, while I don't want to call the current Studio members complete illiterates or anything, you could be forgiven for thinking they were. Reading the Gathering Storm books or material that's come since (and, frankly, most material that's come out since the beginning of the dread Ward Era), you don't get the feeling that the people behind these works have ever intellectually ventured far beyond the walls of GW's IP, and when they have, it's clearly been to the safest and least threatening parts of the overall Nerd Canon. That's not, of course, an absolute statement. Maybe they're all wonderfully well-read, brilliant creators who could each spin out a hundred 40Ks on their lonesome, and it's GW's internal style guide that traps them in the repetitive hell of Guilliman's dull superheroics. Who knows, I guess, but we can all see the output. If there's an Imperium or a humanity beyond the Primaris leapfrogging around the galaxy and saving everyone else by dint of their oh-so-impressive increased WS and wound count, we sure don't know about it. Maybe that's for the best - it would almost certainly be as lifeless and basic as everything else they've written about so far.
 

I'm not sure that anyone saying codexes used to have top notch writing in them isn't just looking thru nostalgia fillers.

Eh. I wrote a pretty long post about this a bit ago, but to sum things up - I've run the experiment, and this hypothesis does not hold up.
 
* I'm sure some absolute genius is reading this line and has instantly queued up a reply noting that "oh, realism in the setting with daemons and space knights, fnar, fnar!" This sort of empty-headed smugness is why most fandoms should only be interacted with in sterile laboratory settings with full protective gear and an airlock nearby to prevent contamination of the wider world.

[DuskRaider]

GW have already said they will continue to manufacture existing Space Marine kits. That beinf said, I highly doubt they'll come out with new ones. I expect nothing but Primaris from here on out.

[Bryan Blaire]

GW have already said they will continue to manufacture existing Space Marine kits. That beinf said, I highly doubt they'll come out with new ones. I expect nothing but Primaris from here on out.

In that vein, can I ask what new kits they might come up with that would fit with anything people think for Marines?

[Marshal Rohr]

What's going on with 8th Ed isn't anything special or new - it's just the first time the modern Studio has gotten to make a 40K that's not piggybacking on what came before. Turns out, they're bad at it. Really bad, even!

 

There's a lot of talk here (and, honestly, anywhere you get people talking about the Dark Imperium) about "darkness" and "hope" as if they're a stand-in framework for old and new 40K background, but that's all nonsense. They're both irrelevant to 40K as a whole, and equally terrible as core values of the setting. If you sat Andy Chambers or Rick Priestley or any other original architect of 40K down and asked them to choose a side there, I'd bet actual human money that they'd screw up their eyes, frown and tell you that you're missing the point by several nautical miles. 40K, at its best, never strove to be dark. It didn't strive for anything, really! It was just fun science fiction written to sell some miniatures, and only ever made sense when you didn't look at it too hard or too directly. Which is fine since, again, that's not the point.

 

The point of 40K, at its best times, was that it was interesting, engaging and felt real.* Not real in that tiresome, laborious sense of so much "serious" superhero movie trash or anything, but real in the way of scope and breadth, where the universe really was as big and varied as humanity. There was a bigger world beyond the tabletop, where both people and aliens had lives and concerns that didn't touch war at all - even Orks had a fun, lazy "kultur" that made them feel like a real species, rather than a bunch of 'roided up space gorillas on a permanent anger high. There was still the lofty narrative of the Heresy, the Primarchs and the Long War of the Traitor Legions, but it didn't completely overwhelm the whole setting like it does today. It was a component, an interesting origin story for a setting, but not hugely relevant to current events, because things that happened ten millennia ago are rarely relevant to anyone, ever. None of this was stated in any big or obvious way - these were just the base assumptions, the background noise of the setting. It didn't feel much like it could be any other way.

 

All of this came, I'd wager, because those long-ago creators of 40K read and lived broadly, and had a feel for the world at a lot of different levels. By comparison, while I don't want to call the current Studio members complete illiterates or anything, you could be forgiven for thinking they were. Reading the Gathering Storm books or material that's come since (and, frankly, most material that's come out since the beginning of the dread Ward Era), you don't get the feeling that the people behind these works have ever intellectually ventured far beyond the walls of GW's IP, and when they have, it's clearly been to the safest and least threatening parts of the overall Nerd Canon. That's not, of course, an absolute statement. Maybe they're all wonderfully well-read, brilliant creators who could each spin out a hundred 40Ks on their lonesome, and it's GW's internal style guide that traps them in the repetitive hell of Guilliman's dull superheroics. Who knows, I guess, but we can all see the output. If there's an Imperium or a humanity beyond the Primaris leapfrogging around the galaxy and saving everyone else by dint of their oh-so-impressive increased WS and wound count, we sure don't know about it. Maybe that's for the best - it would almost certainly be as lifeless and basic as everything else they've written about so far.

 

I'm not sure that anyone saying codexes used to have top notch writing in them isn't just looking thru nostalgia fillers.

Eh. I wrote a pretty long post about this a bit ago, but to sum things up - I've run the experiment, and this hypothesis does not hold up.

 

* I'm sure some absolute genius is reading this line and has instantly queued up a reply noting that "oh, realism in the setting with daemons and space knights, fnar, fnar!" This sort of empty-headed smugness is why most fandoms should only be interacted with in sterile laboratory settings with full protective gear and an airlock nearby to prevent contamination of the wider world.

I really haven’t appreciated you enough over the years. I regret that.

[m0nolith]

There is one major issue with all of this.

GW is the best preforming stock on the London stock market right now.

They are selling stuff faster than they can make, and they are making a metric ton of money right now.

 

I hate the new lore, but GW is going to continue doing exactly what they’re doing now until their profits start going down.

[Lord_Caerolion]

My dog: purebred Rhodesian ridgeback - $1500

My Black Templars - ~$3-4000

My Imperial Fists - $1800

 

They kind of did murder something I loved.

 

So, those $4-5800 worth of models, they're unplayable now, are they? GW has sent their goons 'round to smash them up with baseball bats, and burn the remains, so that you can never play with them again, but instead are forced to replace them with Nu-Marines?

 

Please. It's going to be a long, long time before GW gives up the cash cow that are the standard Marines. They've made investments, recently, in new sprues and models to be made and sold. They're not going to throw all that away just to try to force some new models on people. I guarantee you, we're going to see a story event that screws over the Primaris. We've already got hints that the Blood Angels Primaris are starting to slip, that they might not be as "fixed" in regards to the Flaw as they originally thought. We know Fabius Bile is taking a personal interest in them.

The Primaris are going to fall from grace, still useful, but proved to not be the saviours they were originally presented as.

[Marshal Rohr]

There is one major issue with all of this.

GW is the best preforming stock on the London stock market right now.

They are selling stuff faster than they can make, and they are making a metric ton of money right now.

 

I hate the new lore, but GW is going to continue doing exactly what they’re doing now until their profits start going down.

So is bitcoin ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

I can asure a few posters above that the gk players of this forum did not need 4chan to spot Wards fluff murder when the 5th made for 6th edition codex came out.

 

Ward was great for his crunch, but questionable about his fluff.

 

Incorruptible +1 for example.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

There is one major issue with all of this.

GW is the best preforming stock on the London stock market right now.

They are selling stuff faster than they can make, and they are making a metric ton of money right now.

 

I hate the new lore, but GW is going to continue doing exactly what they’re doing now until their profits start going down.

So is bitcoin

 

 

Coming soon from GW, Imperial Thrones, the newest crypto-currency that is taking the galaxy by storm! By them now! ...Please? :p

[DuskRaider]

 

GW have already said they will continue to manufacture existing Space Marine kits. That beinf said, I highly doubt they'll come out with new ones. I expect nothing but Primaris from here on out.

In that vein, can I ask what new kits they might come up with that would fit with anything people think for Marines?

I wonder if people asked that question before 30K and the new Astartes units that were released with that system...

[Scribe]

 

GW have already said they will continue to manufacture existing Space Marine kits. That beinf said, I highly doubt they'll come out with new ones. I expect nothing but Primaris from here on out.

In that vein, can I ask what new kits they might come up with that would fit with anything people think for Marines?

 

 

Well...*clears throat*...um...they could you know....

 

Update the ranges that have languished for decades, suffering in the wilderness, while Marine after Marine, after LOYALIST MARINE, kit was released.

[Lord_Caerolion]

You mean there are non-Marine model ranges? Preposterous!

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

 

...Why are old marines being phased out, but Eldar players aren't freaking out that their 3 factions are going to be phased out by a unified Ynnari? ...

 

What makes you think that we don't fear the deletion of our factions for a Ynnari only faction? As soon as the Gathering Storm introduced them in 7th edition I assumed that the Dark Eldar's days were numbered. While it appears that they are allowing me to keep my Dark Eldar for 8th I'm expecting the lore to delete them in the coming years. When that day comes my collecting of Eldar comes to an end as well. And no, a Ynnari model with spikes is not a Dark Eldar as they are a completely different culture, those pathetic fools who cling to this new god are no longer Dark Eldar.