Early play experience

[dtse]

Hey guys. Been faithfully trying stuff out. Not been super impressed so far. Been playing a lot of guard recently. It’s definitely not as strong as guard. I’d put DA mid tier right now, probably similar to BA and admech, maybe just slightly lower than eldar (mostly cause of dark reapers) and definitely not as good as guard, chaos soup, or tyranids.

 

Specific thoughts:

 

1) lion and the wolf: worth considering allying in a vanguard of WGbL and 9 aggressors from SW. you can buff up a character for cost of a mortal wound and in exchange you get outflanking boltstorm aggressors that will guarantee clear out any and all chaff and screens you want. Will also cost you 3-4 CP so build with that in mind.

 

2) speaking of CP you really have to seriously consider going double battalion or you will run out of CP fast. Or ally in guard battalion for a 180 point 3 CP engine that also provides toh with 30 screen bodies and some spam lasguns.

 

3) weapons from the dark ages is obviously good but to make the most of it you really do need to max out your hellblasters squad (at 300+ points) or black knights (460 pts or 25% of your army). I have found hellblasters with relic banner good. And grim resolve on them is great and you don’t need a captain. Black knights are unfortunately still too expensive and die too easily to so many things that are way cheaper than them. So my 35 black knights will likely go back on the shelf. Inceptors while strong and very alpha or beta strikey, is just trading a 300+ point unit for something else.

 

4) flyers - 2-3 dark talons is good. Very good. And tough to deal with. -2 with shroud. Rerolls with a captain or Sammy nearby, points reduction, way superior to nephilim. Just be careful about boots in the ground since everything else will belowmodel count. Can do some tricksy things with sammael and talonmaster hiding out behind flyer screens

 

5) character spam? Not really a thing and adds up mighty fast. Although running 2-3 talonmaster s anf Sammy might seem super fun and tricksy (at least til character changes come) it will literally cost you half your army points. Saying that. Talonmaster is awesome. A must take if you are running ravenwing but for gunline you probably just want a cheap lieutenant.

 

6) Azrael/shroud/razorback/hellblasters gunline is still likely strongest list type. Razorbacks are more expensive and don’t get invuln but they are still awesome units. Predators in 3-4 with killshot is very strong. Advantage over hellblasters of being harder to kill and actually more likely to kill more. While 10 plasma with 3 damage each is good, the strength 7 still lets it down and it’s only 30” range. Everything good that is going to kill you will do some from over 30” (hive guard, manticores, basilisks, super heavy weapons, etc). But seems a shame not to use that stratagem. So I think most competitive list is still Azrael, shroud, lieutenant, scouts, razorbacks, predators and hellblasters. Then run a guard battalion for infantry and CP. and add flyers if you have points.

 

That’s it for now. Would be interested in other people’s play experiences in a competitive setting.

[ShadowCore67]

So far I've played two games with the codex. Both my lists were slight variations of a list which consisted of Ravenwing and Hellblaster gunlines.

(Keep in mind both my opponents aren't very talented at the game and I very consistently beat them)

 

Chapter ancients are amazing for Hellblasters.

 

Talonmasters are great character hunters.

 

Weapons from the Dark Age, Hunt the Fallen, and Speed of the Raven seem to be the winning stratagems. I want to say Secret Agenda is good but I didn't try it because as I said my buddies aren't super tactically minded and I usually don't have to worry about them denying me points.

 

The points reductions in all the Ravenwing units are very helpful.

[Solrac]

I'm going to an 8 game, 3 day tournament the same weekend as LVO for the final points of the ITC season.

 

I have decided on this:

Battalion

 

HQ

Sammael on Sableclaw

 

Talon Master

 

Techmarine on Bike

 

TROOPS

(5) Intercessors

Aux Grenade Launcher

 

(5) Intercessors

Aux Grenade Launcher

 

(6) Scouts

Heavy Bolter

 

(6) Scouts

Missile Launcher

 

FAST ATTACK

Dark Shroud

Heavy Bolter

 

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS

Repulsor

Twin Lascannon

Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Onslaught Gatling Cannon

3x Storm Bolter

Ironhail Heavy Stubber

2x Fragstorm

2x Krakstorm

 

Repulsor

As Above

 

Repulsor

As above

 

I was tossing up between the above list vs the same but with triple stormraven. In the end I decided I would rather T8 vs the -1 to hit because Dark Reaper spam has become a lot more popular. Also the Repulsors have more dakka. I don't see myself winning the tournament (currently will have 120 players in attendance) but if I get a top 10 I will be incredibly happy and might even be able to plink 1st Place ITC Dark Angel Worldwide (currently sitting in 3rd).

 

I have another couple of lists cooking up at the moment for the rest of the year, this one by far is my favourite and looks like I will be running this for next ITC season:

Outrider

 

HQ

Azrael

 

6 Inceptors

Plasma

 

6 Inceptors

Assault Bolters

 

6 Inceptors

Assault Bolters

 

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS

Drop Pod

Storm Bolter

 

Battalion

 

HQ

Primaris Master

Plasm Pistol

Power Fist

 

Lieutenant

Master Crafted Bolter

Power Sword

 

Lieutenant

Master Crafted Bolter

Power Sword

 

TROOPS

(5) Intercessors

Aux Grenade Launcher

 

(5) Intercessors

Aux Grenade Launcher

 

(5) Intercessors

Aux Grenade Launcher

 

(5) Tactical Squad

Plasma

Combi Plasma

 

(5) Scout Squad

Heavy Bolter

Bolters

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

(5) Hellblasters

Plasma Incinerator

 

So the method to this list is actually to hide half the army out of LOS but grabbing objectives/dealing with deep striking units. The way the ITC missions work, as long as I control an objective I'm scoring points so if I can deny kills for my opponent I am denying them points even though I'm not scoring kill points myself. Turn 3 comes and the rest of the army comes on concentrating on the objective/s worth the most points. Weapons of the Dark Age is going to be awesome on the Plasma Inceptors and the Assault Bolters will also clear a lot of chaff. Azrael makes everyone sturdy with the 4++ and re-rolls and the tac squads comes in the Pod as well to secure an objective.

 

I got the idea from one of our local players here in Sydney. He came second in the NSW Masters and won the Australian Masters tournaments (not to mention a few others) with just an Ultramarines infantry/Primaris list with no Guilliman. He just avoids damage by staying out of LOS and holds objectives and he's beat all the big bad cheesy lists (including the Magnus + Morty combo). Granted he is just a phenomenal player but still the concept is excellent.

 

I think thinking outside the box and then getting in heaps of practice is going to be the way to go for DA. I definitely think heavy infantry/primaris lists will be the future for DA

Edited December 21, 2017 by Solrac

[SnakeChisler]

I really like the 2nd list, gonna go to a couple of tourneys myself this year - though both are restricted format (soup lists end up heavily nerfed), for the 2 part missions it looks tactically solid.

 

We play a lot of maelstrom and I can see that list just running away with progressive objective missions if played correctly.

 

Had a couple of games and 1St impressions are black knights still not worth it, just really struggled to get them into the game, started running Hellblaster's before the codex dropped and they were good before with Azreal even better now. Inceptors got painted up when chapter approved dropped and the bolter guys outperformed bikes by a comfortable margin, bought the plasma versions on the back of the codex and they make thier points back ++ in 1 drop.

[Trunkello]

I really like the 2nd list, gonna go to a couple of tourneys myself this year - though both are restricted format (soup lists end up heavily nerfed), for the 2 part missions it looks tactically solid.

 

We play a lot of maelstrom and I can see that list just running away with progressive objective missions if played correctly.

 

Had a couple of games and 1St impressions are black knights still not worth it, just really struggled to get them into the game, started running Hellblaster's before the codex dropped and they were good before with Azreal even better now. Inceptors got painted up when chapter approved dropped and the bolter guys outperformed bikes by a comfortable margin, bought the plasma versions on the back of the codex and they make thier points back ++ in 1 drop.

So maxed out interceptor with plasma and maxed out hellblaster squad are both good choice for the strategem? Only depends on the enemy army and circumstances?

[oldmanlee]

Mmm Intresting list with the repulsors solrac not a fan of the second list bit to much infantry for my taste

[dtse]

I would agree. I think Inceptors are worth it if you pilot them correctly. My unit of only 3 plasma Inceptors was consistently doing 10-12 wounds on dropping to T7 targets. Plasma does struggle on T8 though, my army had issues with knights and guard superheavies. I still think we need to pack some lascannons for those targets.

 

As I already said black knights are too expensive. It pains me to not play them but it is so. Even wth stratagems they are just too expensive.

 

The list I’m thinking of for an upcoming GT will have Azrael, lieutenant, shroud, hellblasters, 3 predators, some assbacks, scouts, guard infantry, and drop Inceptors or assault bolters. If I have space (which I probably won’t) I’d ally in some SW aggressors

[breng77]

Inceptors have been stars for me.  I think multiple 3 man squads are the way to go (or a single one that you can combat squad or not as you so choose.)  While 3 don't max out the stratagem, I also find they still have been overkill on most things I've shot them at, and they die super fast after your opponent sees them murder stuff.  Having 2 x3 has let me drop them on consecutive turns.  Throw in a cheap Master with Jump pack (or Sammi) and Lieutenant with JP (or talon master) and they do really good work.  IMO they are better than helblasters in DA, helblasters suffer from mobility issues and if you want to go the helblaster + banner trick, I think regular marines do it better with raven guard, because they can deploy for max damage.  Helblasters fighting it out at 30" range are ok, but you are then paying a lot of points for 10 shots.

 

I agree that so far Black knights seem too expensive because they just are not durable enough even with jink.

 

Sammi has been great for me, I think scouts really help him out by providing hidden upfield units that protect him from shooting. 

 

Cheap biker units have also done pretty well as chaff clearing units, though inceptor units with bolters seem a bit better, though also slightly more expensive (5 bikes = 3 inceptors)

[dtse]

Yea. Hellblasters do suffer from only 10 shots at range. And then you throw banner in there. Thad’s 400+ points for 10 shots. Was not super impressed and will struggle wth knights and other T8 targets

 

Assault bolter Inceptors are the Bomb for chaff clearing. Personally aggressors are the best but getting them into position requires ravenguard or space wolves. They are not good if they have to start on the table.

[Syphid]

Which Hellblaster weapon are most people using? Regular, heavy or assault? Edited December 20, 2017 by Syphid

[breng77]

Scout bikes (30 S4 shots at 12" range) are actually the best chaff clearing for the points, the issue is they must start on the table, which is the big inceptor advantage (5 RW bikes do about as good as inceptors for the same points against GEQ, slightly better against Brims)