Badger 105 & Amazon Experience

[duz_]

I thought I would share my experience of my "new" Badger Patriot 105 airbrush for other Frater considering investing in a set up and see what other more veteran hobbyist have to say on my thoughts.

The intent isn't to complain, but to explain the situation and see if others have experienced similar, as well as be a heads up for those considering.,

 

I had been waiting to buy an airbrush set up for a while now and earlier in the year Amazon ran a discount on the TC910 compressor which was my sign as to take the plunge! Annoyingly at the time Michael's wasn't running one of their 40-50% discounts so I also purchased my Badger airbrush through Amazon too. (Note: I regularly do shopping online and generally do my research on these kind of large purchase)

 

The compressor arrived and was expected in new packaging and pristine as you would expect.

 

The airbrush however did not seem as "clean" parts of it seemed tarnished, however I figured it may have just been slow moving stock for the people who fulfilled the order, hence the discount vs retail. The order was fulfilled by ToolTopia, which seems to generally specialise in auto. (A quick search of my purchase would appear that ToolTopia no longer offer them on Amazon.)

Not knowing what to expect and given the many glowing reviews of the Patriot I just accepted it and carried on.

Also given it is not clear what comes in each Patriot package mine was delivered with hoses, which meant a trip to Michael's anyway and the total count being similar to what I would have spent there with one of their regular discounts.

 

 

After a few sessions of using the brush with GW, Vallejo and Badger paints and primers I started to get a bit frustrated. I struggled to mimic many of the videos and blogs I had read. Despite using various combinations of thinner, flow-aid and pressures my airflow was fairly sporadic.

Last night I did some more research and watched a few videos, particularly those on tearing down the Patriot.

 

I noticed a somethings as a result:

1. An o-ring on the front end of the airbrush (gravity cup) was missing
2. The tube shank (that holds the spray regulator in place) was extremely over tightened when I went to unscrew it
3. The spring screw that adjusts the trigger pressure was wound all the way (I may have possibly been the culprit on this one)
4. Without having anything to compare it too and no visual way to confirm, the internal needle bear does seem a bit loose?

To see if these were causing some of my issues

• Used plumbers tape behind the head assembly
• Didn't over tighten the shank when re-inserting it
• Eased off the tension on the trigger to give a lighter smooth actuation

I did some black base coating with some Vallejo black this morning and it was almost a different brush! The air flow was a lot more consistent and didn't splutter anywhere near as much. I used the same pressure and mixing ratios has I had previously to get some what optimal results.

 

I have noticed others on Amazon make similar observations with the condition of the brush the received and mine did look slightly different to those reviewed on YouTube. I may consider replacing the brush all together at some point and selling this one off. However for now the minor changes above seem to have helped.

 

Has anyone else encountered similar, or am I just crazy?

[Bung]

From your description when you got the gun, it sounds like you got a used one not a new.

Cant say much without pictures.

As an airbrush setup is not realy cheap manufacturers have a rigid quality control at least in the 100 $+ range.

But you could look for some replacement parts from Badger or a real Airbrush Shop.

 

I use a H&S as it is easier and cheaper to get replacement parts where i life.

[Subtle Discord]

I got a Sotar 20/20 and an Aspire TC910 not too long ago and while it was clearly new out of the box, I too had some odd problems with it when I started to use it. Despite doing everything in what seemed to be a correct manner it was being temperamental. I did the same, taking it apart and cleaning/lubing it, but I didn't find anything out-of-place. I was careful to take the time to make sure everything was adjusted to my taste and properly tightened. Despite it being put back together exactly the same as it arrived, from what I could tell, I too found it made all the difference. It's working much more as expected, only giving me problems when I'm not careful to keep the nozzle clean and to flush it now-and-then as I work.

 

I'm still quite a novice using it so I can't say I'm any kind of authority, but a couple of things that I've noticed personally stand out. I've found that I use much higher pressure then what many people recommend to use. It's not that it won't work at the lower pressures, but I find the size of the paint droplets is noticeably larger at lower pressures like 15 PSI and I get much nicer results when I crank it up to 30-40 PSI; I will say that I have an in-line valve that I use to adjust the pressure, but even if it's wide open at 15 PSI I simply don't like the results. I crank the pressure up, test the paint I want to use, and use the valve to dial in the pressure to suit the consistency of the paint. I'm still getting used to finding the right consistency for thinning the paint so this method gives me a bit of room for error.

 

The second thing is using a flow aid product. It's always helpful to add a bit to get nice results, but I find it's critical to get a fine needle to work consistently without driving me mad. If you're using something like a 0.2mm or finer needle and tip, do yourself a favor and be sure flow aid is part of the mix, even if the paint seems thin enough. It will still tend to clog a bit and require keeping it clean as you go, but it makes a noticeable difference to how quickly it happens and how often you'll need to maintain the nozzle.

 

P.S. Amazon is a horrible catch-22. Their selection and the convenience is great, but their prices are many times not as amazing as they would like you to think, and they're kinda' just... evil, with how they treat many of their warehouse workers. Don't get me wrong, I order from them sometimes after careful consideration, but I'll always shop around and try to support a company/seller/manufacturer more directly if that's an option. Especially if I can support a local business who will take my money and put at least some of it back into my local community and/or city, and not Jeff Bezos's already ample bank account. In most cases, I'll even pay more for the privilege to do it. Local economies only survive if people support them.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Subtle Discord

[Lorenzen]

If you think there is an issue with the brush Ken Schlotfeldt (the owner of badger) is pretty active on facebook and as a company they're pretty damn good customer service wise..

 

i personally have a Renegade Krome and a Sotar 20/20 and have had no issues with either brush that hasn't been fixed by a good clean.

 

30-40 PSI for scale model work is pretty insane.. Outside of the hobby i spray cars for a living and even on them i barely use that kind of pressure spraying with a 12" fan. i would suggest thinning your paint further and lowering the pressure..

[Subtle Discord]

Again, I have very limited experience so I'm happy to keep working it out, especially if I'm getting direct advice from someone with good hands-on experience. It really seemed to me that I was thinning it enough, even taking it so far that I could hardly spray light coats without drips. I'd get it a tiny bit thicker drop the pressure and get speckles of paint instead of a fine atomized mist I was expecting. Naturally, I need to use it more to get all of the pieces of the puzzle fitting correctly, I'm sure I need more practice with several aspects of using an airbrush to get the best output.

[Lorenzen]

what thinner are you using to thin your paint with? what paints are you using? have you made sure the nozzle itself isn't blocked at all? how far away from the model are you spraying?

 

getting the balance right between all the different aspects can be quite tricky to begin with, the sotar is capable of producing close to pencil thin lines with correctly thinned paint and the right pressure.

[Bung]

@ Lorenzen

I personly spray with around 30 PSI or 2 Bar with my H&S guns and it works fine.

But its something depending on your gun.

They are different from manufacturers which pressure is best for using them.

[Subtle Discord]

Not to hijack the topic and take it off into the weeds too much, if the OP has an issue please just say so.

 

The simple answer to the products is Vallejo brand all around; Game Color paints (thinned), some Model Air paints (not thinned), Vallejo Thinner and Flow Aid.

 

I've long ago learned to accept the necessary technique of trial-and-error, so when I was practicing I was trying all sorts of different ranges; in close (5-6cm) with quick passes, mid-range (~10cm) with slower passes, and way back (15cm +) to see how it would affect the way the paint lands. The reputation of the Sotar to get very thin lines, as well as very smooth gradations, was a primary reason why I chose it. I can get ~2mm wide lines (I suspect I can get even thinner, with experience), but I'm still trying to find the right blend of everything to get the really soft blending. I'm happy with the results so far, but I suspect it's just a matter of practice to make sure all the factors become second nature.

 

I also agree that I may not have cleaned the nozzle quite as well I could have at the end of an earlier session, or I was being too slow and/or not cleaning the nozzle as I worked to ensure the flow remained consistent. I've since learned that fine nozzles can be very temperamental even if you try to do everything right; flow aid is all but necessary it seems. As mentioned, I also have an in-line valve that I can use to adjust the pressure, and I might just be setting it at 30PSI on the regulator, but ultimately dialing it back to 15-20PSI with the valve, and I just don't know it. Just hearing from someone with experience that I can get the results I want tells me I likely just need to get more practice and nail down each step of the process.

 

Thanks for the input and guidance, hopefully it's good general information that can help others who come across the thread.

[Lorenzen]

Ok knowing that youbuse Vallejo paints and thinners helps quite a bit.. as I have a lot of Vallejo paints and also use their thinner most of the time.

 

I don't use any flow aid in my mix and mix by eye most of the time..

 

as you say a lot of it comes down to experience and trial and error but you "should" be able to get a decent result at about 15psi working pressure.. I'd consider setting the compressor valve and not the in line one if possible.. Will allow you to get am accurate read on what psi you are spraying at (less variables are good)

 

Out of laziness I mix in the cup on my airbrushes with the thinner being put in 1st.. if you put the paint in 1st it can block the nozzle up super fast.

 

 

The blends on the armour were done with the sotar at a working pressure of 15psi, just as an example.

 

I'd recommend doing a deep clean on the nozzle and needle and then lubricating the needle a little to reduce tip dry. (Be careful not to drop the actual nozzle.. it's smaller than a grain of rice and took me close to 45 minutes to find when I dropped mine...) Soak it in your cleaner of choice to loosen up any stubborn paint and give it a thorough clean.. then visually inspect it.. (shine light through it and see if it's clear.. basic but effective)

 

Higher pressure will give less room for mistakes with fine blends and lines as you'll be spraying closer to the model.

 

The sotar also has a dial on the back.. play with some decent quality black acrylic ink, close the dial off & then adjust it very slightly.. as it will stop the trigger moving past barely open and allow you to see how close you can get and how fine too.

 

If we derail the thread too much just pm me. I'm happy to help in anyway I can. :)