Best melta platform in 8th

[Anarnii]

Hi guys,

 

Trying to work out the best anti armour options in 8th as there seems to be a lot more vehicles out there. Bjorn, las long fangs and predators all seem decent (although I’m running a double las contemptor instead of predator). What is everyone’s preferred melta platform in 8th?

 

For me:

 

Terminators are too slow for combi melta as they aren’t going to be able to deepstrike in half range and any decent opponent won’t let them once they are down

 

Terminators in land raider is just too expensive

 

Wolf guard with jump pages are decent, but are easy to take out even with storm Sheilds by masses fire.

 

Grey hunter as in pod is expensive and has the same issue as terminators about getting in range. Razorbacks can fit enough models and better kept further back than the meltas range. Could you fit 2 x 5 hunters with one melta and one combi melta on wolf guard in a rhino? Not sure if the wolf guard is squad member 5 or 6.

 

So I’m thinking wolf guard on bikes with 3/4 combos, shields and thunder hammer on the leader makes for the fastest and most resilient option, though no cheap.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Deadnaughty]

You mentioned most already, I like the bikers aswell myself. Even if not faced with tanks they put out a hella lot of shots.

 

But check out the Stormfang, its a beefy tank. extra defense from -1 to hit and can carry what is effectively 4 MMs and 5 Lascannons (Hellfrost is about eqv) shots.

[Anarnii]

Thinking a storm fang will be next on my purchase list but get bikes and most of prospero burn set still to build. Any advice on transporting any units in the storm fang or is it not necessary?

[Deadnaughty]

I dont have a dedicated unit to transport in mine. Esp now that you can outflank Wulven with the stratagem.

 

If the situation warrants it I can easily have it transport a GH unit instead of their usual Razorback.

[MeatGrinder]

Honestly I don't see the appeal of melta this edition, the melta bonuses are just okay. I'd rather take lascannons on dreads or fangs than put points into a dedicated melta unit.

[Gherrick]

Honestly I don't see the appeal of melta this edition, the melta bonuses are just okay. I'd rather take lascannons on dreads or fangs than put points into a dedicated melta unit.

I have a similar opinion on plasma. I'm not sure why peeps like plasma so much, as I'd rather use melta and skip the chance of blowing yourself up. Still, S8 AP-4 is the real draw for melta, as it disallows saves for most vehicles.

[Deadnaughty]

 

Honestly I don't see the appeal of melta this edition, the melta bonuses are just okay. I'd rather take lascannons on dreads or fangs than put points into a dedicated melta unit.

I have a similar opinion on plasma. I'm not sure why peeps like plasma so much, as I'd rather use melta and skip the chance of blowing yourself up. Still, S8 AP-4 is the real draw for melta, as it disallows saves for most vehicles.

 

double the range, or double the shots in the same range.

 

Against 3+ Wound models I prefer Melta's but against 1-2 wounds the plasma is usually better.

 

And yes they have lost their edge over Lascannons (and equiv) imo. More average wounds is nice but the range is a big cost.

[Anarnii]

What ratio of special and heavy weapons are you having in an all comers list?

 

I’m thinking of a melta bike squad, quad las contemptor, las bjorn, plasma grey hunters in 1500. I’m really struggling in 8th where we seem to have more ways to get special and heavy weapons where to draw the line and aim for bodies instead

[MeatGrinder]

 

Honestly I don't see the appeal of melta this edition, the melta bonuses are just okay. I'd rather take lascannons on dreads or fangs than put points into a dedicated melta unit.

I have a similar opinion on plasma. I'm not sure why peeps like plasma so much, as I'd rather use melta and skip the chance of blowing yourself up. Still, S8 AP-4 is the real draw for melta, as it disallows saves for most vehicles.

 

 

You now choose whether to take the risk of blowing yourself up, plasma is now the all-rounder weapon.

[bloodhound23]

Any other thoughts on this? 

 

I'm working on a force now and was wondering whether I should equip a 6-man squad of GH with melta/combi-melta or not. 

 

Or should I save my GH special weapon slots for something a little more versatile like plasma? I have considered dedicating the anti-armor and anti-horde roles to Long Fangs and assault cannon Razorbacks, respectively.

 

Are melta's with GH just wasted points?

[TiguriusX]

In 8th plasma is king for GH

 

You can rapid fire and assault in this edition.

 

That was one of the major reasons to use melta over plasma in the past.

[Dantay VI]

Multi-melta on a rhino cupola?? Or is that only allowed in 30K

 

Outflank in a rhino with a full squad and have the multi ,melta to help chew up armour along the way?

Edited December 27, 2017 by Wolf_Priest _Dantay.

[Karhedron]

I run 2 packs of 5 GHs with a melta gun, each with a WGPL with combi-melta in AC Razorbacks. They are mobile enough to hunt targets and bring those meltas to bear and flexible enough to threaten hordes with the ACs on the Razorbacks. I have plenty of plasma elsewhere in my list but these 2 packs do a good job of supporting the Long Fangs for tank busting.

[Deadnaughty]

Multi-melta on a rhino cupola?? Or is that only allowed in 30K

 

Outflank in a rhino with a full squad and have the multi ,melta to help chew up armour along the way?

Thats 30k. Only storm bolters allowed in 40k.

And you can't outflank vehicles with the statagem.

[Bulwyf]

I like melta over plasma personally.  You have enough regular bolters or assault cannons for MEQ or horde targets. Melta gives you that ability to hurt high wound targets better than plasma. If this was a DA list then my answer would be different.

[TiguriusX]

I like melta over plasma personally.  You have enough regular bolters or assault cannons for MEQ or horde targets. Melta gives you that ability to hurt high wound targets better than plasma. If this was a DA list then my answer would be different.

Plasma overcharge is actually better odds to hurt (i.e., wound) a high wound target.  Both S8 but plasma can rapid fire if the melta is in range so 2 shots to 1

If you mean do damage you are talking rapidfire overcharge (2 shots with D2 for 4 potential damage) against a single roll on a D6

 

If you are talking melta at half range of 6" that is a very specific window for the melta to have better odds of doing more damage

 

I was a melta worshipper in 7th Edition.  I have converted to plasma for the overall benefits.  Melta IMHO has niche benefits that don't perform as well in a TAC type list

Edited December 27, 2017 by TiguriusX

[Gherrick]

The -4 of melta vs plasma's -3 will mean NO save allowed instead of a t-shirt save of 6 on the 3+ saves (which most high wound models have). While not probable, I've seen it happen enough that any save can shift the results and allow a unit to live, often causing much heartache the next turn. Still, I've had terrible luck on d6 rolls, and a result of 1 shows up more than statistically probable for me, so overcharged plasma is a scary option.

[Arentius]

What about longwolves combined with the on the hunt perk? 178 points for 4 multimeltas in melta range turn 1?

[Deadnaughty]

What about longwolves combined with the on the hunt perk? 178 points for 4 multimeltas in melta range turn 1?

Possible, but suffering from -1 to hit from firing heavy weapons after moving.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

 

What about longwolves combined with the on the hunt perk? 178 points for 4 multimeltas in melta range turn 1?

Possible, but suffering from -1 to hit from firing heavy weapons after moving.

 

Rerolling ones to hit does help a ton for that long fang unit.

 

I think plasma guns are the way to go in this edition. Not a fan of either heavy weapon platform for plasma/melta. 

 

The problem with melta is range. For any target I would want to kill with melta I believe a longer range weapon is better... lascannons and missile launchers. I like ML's for their versatility.

 

Anyway, for melta I think the best platform is probably bikes. Fast and durable. Or that long fang unit outflanking.

[Bulwyf]

I am going to try out plasma on my GH special weapon, 3 squads plus a squad of termies dropping in with Arjac using combi plasma. I'm curious if plasma is as good as melta for anti vehicle as has been claimed. I'll keep the GH near Bjorn for rerolls and drop Njarl in with the termies.

[Karhedron]

I'm curious if plasma is as good as melta for anti vehicle as has been claimed.

In the 6-12" range, overcharged plasma and melta are almost identical. At >12" the plasma obviously wins since the melta is out of range. At <6" the melta nudges ahead. Here are the exact numbers if you are interested against a T7 tank/MC with a 3+ save.

 

Plasma 1-12" = 1.48 wounds on average

Plasma 13-24" = 0.74 wounds on average

Melta 1-6" = 2 wounds on average

Melta 7-12" = 1.56 wounds on average

 

The exact number of would will vary if you change the toughness or armour save of the target but the ratio between melta and plasma remains constant. So melta hits just fractionally harder at 7-12" and significantly harder at <6". Plasma wins at over 12" and is also superior vs infantry.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that plasma only gets this result when overcharging so there is a risk of losing models. This can be reduced by having a Wolf Lord nearby to reroll 1s but will be relevant.

 

Overall I think melta and plasma are pretty finely balanced. For foot-sloggers who happen to be near a Wolf Lord (or Bjorn) I favour plasma. In a transport, I think melta has the edge. It is probably a good sign of balance that one weapon is not clearly superior to the other and it tends to depend on how you want to run the squad.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Karhedronuk

[Gherrick]

I'm not sure how your math works, as a flat 2 vs d6 shouldn't be that close I would think.

[Deadnaughty]

I'm not sure how your math works, as a flat 2 vs d6 shouldn't be that close I would think.

2 plasma shots, 4/6 hit, 4/6 wound, 1/6 saves, 2 damage = 1.48

1 melta shot, 4/6 hit, 4/6 wound, no saves, 3.5 damage (average of a d6) = 1.55

 

The extra shot makes it close.

[Bulwyf]

So as I said in an earlier post, I tried out plasma on my GH and other vehicles. I was impressed. As long as I kept a character near for reroll 1's it made so that plasma was a superior option. Why? Because it works far better against non high wound single targets.